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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 12:47 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1587
ldeveraux wrote:
We're going round in circles. Why would anyone want to play a modern console on a CRT? 1080p, even 720p, just why? What's the point? To say you can? Why play on a smaller screen without modern convenience?


Well you asked about 4k on CRTs first. And like I said, one of the points would be CRT motion clarity. That can be a big one. For PC CRTs there's also the option of very high and custom refresh rates. It's just not as crazy as you seem to think it is to play HD games on CRTs.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 1:55 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 797
fernan1234 wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
We're going round in circles. Why would anyone want to play a modern console on a CRT? 1080p, even 720p, just why? What's the point? To say you can? Why play on a smaller screen without modern convenience?


Well you asked about 4k on CRTs first. And like I said, one of the points would be CRT motion clarity. That can be a big one. For PC CRTs there's also the option of very high and custom refresh rates. It's just not as crazy as you seem to think it is to play HD games on CRTs.
I guess it's not, I seem to be the only one that finds it strange. To each his own.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 4:30 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
Just try any other 5V 1A+ adapter you may have lying around. Two random ones I had from other devices worked well, so it's probably more of a problem with the particular power brick that's included, or at least some of them.


Tried another adapter I had that fit and was center-positive 5V 1A and it had the same artifacts. I guess I'll throw this over to the VGP forums.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 12:10 pm 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 372
ldeveraux wrote:
You'd rather view a 4k capable device (PS4) through a CRT than through a 4k capable display (modern TV) why?


I do have a pro, but I don't run any content in 4k.

I'm not at all concerned about which display I use as long as it suits what I feel like playing on. The main reason I do this is unless you pick up the games on PC, console releases won't have the means of being corrected and passthru via ossc is the only way to do this at the hardware level without hacking a system yourself. I did state awhile back that it's meant for future proofing retro, but that it can be used (at all) on the later consoles and to a degree of success is really saying something. Staying strictly by 15khz or only a crt shouldn't have anything to do with it as long as it can look right!

If someone likes "pixel art", that is their preference. I'll keep what I'm doing on both crt and lcd since I'm getting the best out of both worlds.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 12:34 pm 


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Location: Germany, Berlin
Hello all,

can anyone give me some advice on how to connect a Megadrive 1 through the DIN connector to then use on the OSSC's component input, please?
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 2:29 pm 


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two choices:

a) the RetrovisionHD MD2 cable + the matching Din to Mini DIN adapter
b) any Scart cable of your choice plus a transcoder like the Retrotink RGB2COMP

The Retrovision cable has a transcoder built in, so it's technically the same.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 4:49 pm 


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Location: Montréal, Canada
The HDRV cable also avoids the need for a separate power supply (it draws power from the Megadrive). Also avoids any potential coupling losses. The RGB2COMP starts to make sense if you've got a bunch of consoles to convert and want to save some money, or if you've got a SCART switch that you want to convert the output from.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 5:41 pm 


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ldeveraux wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
We're going round in circles. Why would anyone want to play a modern console on a CRT? 1080p, even 720p, just why? What's the point? To say you can? Why play on a smaller screen without modern convenience?


Well you asked about 4k on CRTs first. And like I said, one of the points would be CRT motion clarity. That can be a big one. For PC CRTs there's also the option of very high and custom refresh rates. It's just not as crazy as you seem to think it is to play HD games on CRTs.
I guess it's not, I seem to be the only one that finds it strange. To each his own.
I use a pc with a gtx 1080ti and a ps4 pro both in 1080i and they look better mini led tcl by a Longshot.

Heck my rtx 3070 in 720p looks better than my 77c1 at 4k/60hz too. It isn't until I hit 120hz when the oled can compete with my HD crts. And to think the pc crts are even better as they can do higher frames rates.


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
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Displays I currently own:
LG 77C1(OLED),TCL 75R635(MiniLED),Apple Studio Monitor 21(PCCRT),JVC I'Art 36(SDCRT),SONY 34XBR960x3(HDCRT),CH-15DXA(TVL800)
CH-17DXA(TVL800),Samsung UBJ590(LED),Panasonic P50VT20(Plasma),JVC RS400(LCoS),Optoma27HDR(DLP)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 6:09 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 797
Does CRT still stand for cathode ray tube? You know, but tube Tv's? Are you people using that term interchangeably with "PC monitor" and I missed that explanation somewhere?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 6:30 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1587
ldeveraux wrote:
Does CRT still stand for cathode ray tube? You know, but tube Tv's? Are you people using that term interchangeably with "PC monitor" and I missed that explanation somewhere?


Bahn Yuki said PC CRT, not PC monitor (which can be a CRT too if... if it has a CRT).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:12 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 372
fernan1234 wrote:
Bahn Yuki said PC CRT, not PC monitor (which can be a CRT too if... if it has a CRT).


Monitor is being associated towards lcd panels these days, so it's getting more important to distinguish the two.

I hate this era.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 12:37 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 797
headlesshobbs wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
Bahn Yuki said PC CRT, not PC monitor (which can be a CRT too if... if it has a CRT).


Monitor is being associated towards lcd panels these days, so it's getting more important to distinguish the two.

I hate this era.


I hate that you repeatedly make two conflicting comments in your replies so I have no clue what you're talking about. Ever. So I'm going to leave you to your OSSC and move on to something else.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 2:12 pm 


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Location: Salem OR
ldeveraux wrote:
headlesshobbs wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
Bahn Yuki said PC CRT, not PC monitor (which can be a CRT too if... if it has a CRT).


Monitor is being associated towards lcd panels these days, so it's getting more important to distinguish the two.

I hate this era.


I hate that you repeatedly make two conflicting comments in your replies so I have no clue what you're talking about. Ever. So I'm going to leave you to your OSSC and move on to something else.
He said nothing conflicting. All pc crts are pc monitors, but not all pc monitors are pc crts. Think of it like a square vs rectangle.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
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Displays I currently own:
LG 77C1(OLED),TCL 75R635(MiniLED),Apple Studio Monitor 21(PCCRT),JVC I'Art 36(SDCRT),SONY 34XBR960x3(HDCRT),CH-15DXA(TVL800)
CH-17DXA(TVL800),Samsung UBJ590(LED),Panasonic P50VT20(Plasma),JVC RS400(LCoS),Optoma27HDR(DLP)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2021 9:43 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 797
Bahn Yuki wrote:
He said nothing conflicting. All pc crts are pc monitors, but not all pc monitors are pc crts. Think of it like a square vs rectangle.


Except that the first half of this sentence makes no sense:
"Monitor is being associated towards lcd panels these days..."


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 7:55 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 372
Type "pc monitor" in google, amazon, ebay, craigslist etc and let me know if a crt shows up in the first ten posts.

Let's put a wall up against this argument and move on please.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:41 pm 


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headlesshobbs wrote:
Type "pc monitor" in google, amazon, ebay, craigslist etc and let me know if a crt shows up in the first ten posts.

Let's put a wall up against this argument and move on please.

That's ridiculous, type 'TV' into google and you won't see CRT either


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 1:57 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1587
I don't know why sometimes we need to have arguments over every little phrase or word.

To say something back on topic, I've been amazed at what a great pairing the OSSC and the GBS-C make. They cover each other's limitations so well. Together they kind of feel like an OSSC Pro of sorts.

On the OSSC side, two big ones covered for me are fixing particular display+console pairs that don't work well with the OSSC alone, and the well-known resolution or scan rate change induced signal dropouts that the OSSC alone has. Having the GBS-C ahead of the OSSC solves all of that beautifully. The OSSC in turn is the best ADC for the GBS-C's analog output that I can think of, not only providing 4:4:4 processing but also fine scanline customization and all the other great post-processing settings it has. The OSSC on generic 4:3 mode + the GBS-C's default 1980x960 output gives a super sharp BVM-like picture with custom scanlines. Best of all I think the lag remains at each of the original's base level, though I haven't done any measurements.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2021 3:07 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 797
maxtherabbit wrote:
That's ridiculous, type 'TV' into google and you won't see CRT either


I think we've hit the proverbial language barrier with this guy, it would explain a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 6:02 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 372
Does Firebrandx have any user profiles to newer hardware like PS3/PS4?

I'm asking because of how PS2 emulation works and I would like to see if anything in the 480 range can be improved upon.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 8:01 am 



Joined: 03 Jan 2021
Posts: 85
fernan1234 wrote:

To say something back on topic, I've been amazed at what a great pairing the OSSC and the GBS-C make. They cover each other's limitations so well. Together they kind of feel like an OSSC Pro of sorts.

On the OSSC side, two big ones covered for me are fixing particular display+console pairs that don't work well with the OSSC alone, and the well-known resolution or scan rate change induced signal dropouts that the OSSC alone has. Having the GBS-C ahead of the OSSC solves all of that beautifully.


I've been experimenting with this combo for a while but I'm running into some issues. If I connect a PS2 directly to the GBSC the image is fine. If I connect output from a component switch going to a distribution amp then to the component input on the GBSC I get very bad bands of noise, color bleeding, and wavy shimmering.

This noise is only visible going to the GBSC input, it doesn't show up on component input to the ossc or to crts from the same chain.

I also tried connecting the PS2 to an amp on the same powerstrip as the GBSC then to the GBSC and it seemed to have no issues. So it's like something on the other outlets or powerstrip is causing the noise or interference.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:27 am 


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I would really like a gamma setting on the OSSC.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 1:07 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1587
TrantaLocked_ wrote:
I would really like a gamma setting on the OSSC.


Same here. Would be great to adjust gamma both higher and lower (for when using strong scanlines) than the standard 2.2.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 9:48 am 


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I wonder why it was overlooked. It is just as important to get right as black and gain levels especially due to how retro consoles expect the higher gamma level of old CRTs, when almost all of us are using modern displays. I rarely see anyone talk about this, it's like most people aren't aware of how important it is.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 12:19 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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TrantaLocked_ wrote:
I wonder why it was overlooked. It is just as important to get right as black and gain levels especially due to how retro consoles expect the higher gamma level of old CRTs, when almost all of us are using modern displays. I rarely see anyone talk about this, it's like most people aren't aware of how important it is.


Definitely important. It's a big part of why having a CRT next to a flat panel with scalers like this makes it very obvious that the latter ends up looking dull in comparison, especially when you start using scanlines and thus darkening the picture.

Do you know if this has been brought up on the OSSC Pro topic? May be good to discuss this there while marqs is actively developing the FW for the Pro.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 7:09 pm 



Joined: 08 May 2021
Posts: 1
marqs,
On OSSC I use Line4x mode and it works very well on my SAMSUNG UE32J5205AK, but there is one problem, Color saturation setting is not available on my TV when I use Line4x mode (1280x960). Can you add color saturation setting in OSSC firmware update?
This would be very useful for using the "Line4x" mode on "SAMSUNG" TVs.
On my "SAMSUNG" the "Line3x (laced)" mode does not work, can this be fixed somehow?
Sorry if I chose the wrong topic.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 10:47 pm 


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These are both compatibility issues with your TV and not the OSSC. There isn't really anything the OSSC can do about it. My Samsung TV forces "PC" input mode when you send it resolutions like 960p, which disables game mode and other options. You just need to stick to 720p and 1080p to avoid it. Line3x laced mode is simply not compatible with your TV, very few devices accept it.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 4:50 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 372
TrantaLocked_ wrote:
I wonder why it was overlooked. It is just as important to get right as black and gain levels especially due to how retro consoles expect the higher gamma level of old CRTs, when almost all of us are using modern displays. I rarely see anyone talk about this, it's like most people aren't aware of how important it is.


I think Kega was about one of the only emulators I've seen with a function of brighting an image with scanlines. For ossc it's like you need either pre-ADC gain to help with the offset, plus in combination with hybrid and either can lead to wash out effects if set too high. The better alternatives would be the RGB/YPbPr offset and gain levels, but you have to do them separate at each level and I'm sad that there's no one touch option to tick all three at once for doing this.

Kez wrote:
These are both compatibility issues with your TV and not the OSSC. There isn't really anything the OSSC can do about it. My Samsung TV forces "PC" input mode when you send it resolutions like 960p, which disables game mode and other options. You just need to stick to 720p and 1080p to avoid it. Line3x laced mode is simply not compatible with your TV, very few devices accept it.


I've noticed 3x laced being incompatible with my set as well, but it works great on a pc crt without issue since the khz strength is high enough.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 1:05 pm 



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headlesshobbs wrote:
I think Kega was about one of the only emulators I've seen with a function of brighting an image with scanlines. For ossc it's like you need either pre-ADC gain to help with the offset, plus in combination with hybrid and either can lead to wash out effects if set too high. The better alternatives would be the RGB/YPbPr offset and gain levels, but you have to do them separate at each level and I'm sad that there's no one touch option to tick all three at once for doing this.


Yes the pre-ADC gain setting is too crude, at most you can do one step up from the default 8, anything more will crush everything. This setting is more useful when you need to go down a couple of steps.

I can never get the finer offset and gain level settings to look right after attempting to adjust them. If you or anyone else has a good combination of them to compensate for hybrid scanlines, please share. But I suspect that even an optimal adjustment of gain/offset is not as effective, and certainly not as convenient, as a gamma adjustment would be.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:28 pm 



Joined: 30 Sep 2019
Posts: 13
Is the (original) OSSC dead?
Last commit in github repo from 27/nov/2020, and lots of required and desirable features ignored.

Mike chi cleverly filling in the gaps.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:33 pm 


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CesarDRK wrote:
Is the (original) OSSC dead?
Last commit in github repo from 27/nov/2020, and lots of required and desirable features ignored.

Mike chi cleverly filling in the gaps.

marqs has implemented literally every feature request I've made

maybe the other ones are just dumb... :mrgreen:


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