OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

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omikey
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by omikey »

Extrems wrote:
omikey wrote:I did not have to use any configuration parameters, and used dol2gci to create a bootable version from that one file.
You didn't have to, it's already done for you.
Oops. Just noticed the mcbackup folder.
Pda
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Pda »

Hi guys,

Quite new to this, so excuse me if it's been asked before.

Are Asus PG279Q IPS PC screen 1440p and Panasonic VT60 PAL Plasma 1080p being known as good matches with OSSC? If so,what to use for video setting and input over these before plugging in OSSC and then experiment?

Thank you.
SavagePencil
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by SavagePencil »

The VT60 had issues reported on Line3x mode, but may still work with settings fiddling. Check for more here? https://www.videogameperfection.com/for ... atibility/
Pda
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Pda »

Thanks for the info; i've posted overthere too :) Hoping for first hand feedback now that's it's been available for some time. :)
MidOrFeed2015
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by MidOrFeed2015 »

hi guys I really need help. my gc, wii, xbox and ps2 display 480p line2x in 16:9. Even if I put 4:3 in the console menu it still displays in wide screen.

I have tried to mess with the VESA 640x480 mode and the hsample/hactive values but these do not re-adjust the size they just move the screen. passthrough will show 4:3 so I dont know why line2x will not even if I adjust the 1440x960 to 1280x960.
nmalinoski
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

MidOrFeed2015 wrote:hi guys I really need help. my gc, wii, xbox and ps2 display 480p line2x in 16:9. Even if I put 4:3 in the console menu it still displays in wide screen.

I have tried to mess with the VESA 640x480 mode and the hsample/hactive values but these do not re-adjust the size they just move the screen. passthrough will show 4:3 so I dont know why line2x will not even if I adjust the 1440x960 to 1280x960.
You'll probably have to simply change the aspect ratio setting on your display, assuming it even allows that; if it doesn't, I think you're SOL.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, changing the aspect ratio on the console itself isn't going to affect the OSSC or your display; the OSSC either simply doesn't respect or it isn't capable of reading the aspect ratio metadata put out by consoles like the Xbox over YPbPr component (And probably the PS2, but I won't be able to verify that until I get my CRT hooked up again); and I'm pretty sure the OSSC doesn't indicate a specific aspect ratio to the display in any circumstance.
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bobrocks95
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by bobrocks95 »

nmalinoski wrote:
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:hi guys I really need help. my gc, wii, xbox and ps2 display 480p line2x in 16:9. Even if I put 4:3 in the console menu it still displays in wide screen.

I have tried to mess with the VESA 640x480 mode and the hsample/hactive values but these do not re-adjust the size they just move the screen. passthrough will show 4:3 so I dont know why line2x will not even if I adjust the 1440x960 to 1280x960.
You'll probably have to simply change the aspect ratio setting on your display, assuming it even allows that; if it doesn't, I think you're SOL.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, changing the aspect ratio on the console itself isn't going to affect the OSSC or your display; the OSSC either simply doesn't respect or it isn't capable of reading the aspect ratio metadata put out by consoles like the Xbox over YPbPr component (And probably the PS2, but I won't be able to verify that until I get my CRT hooked up again); and I'm pretty sure the OSSC doesn't indicate a specific aspect ratio to the display in any circumstance.
There is no metadata for a component signal. Pre-HDMI consoles that include widescreen support use anamorphic widescreen, meaning that whether they are set to widescreen or not, they will be outputting at roughly 720x480. In simplistic terms, if set to widescreen the image will be horizontally compressed to fit into that area, with the expectation that a widescreen TV will then stretch the picture back out to its expected aspect ratio.

In other words, the OSSC is seeing the same signal, it's all up to the display on how it handles the linedoubled version. Seeing 720x480 in passthrough mode, it assumes it's a fullscreen image. Seeing a higher resolution like 1440x960 or 1280x960, it assumes it's a widescreen image.
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nmalinoski
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

bobrocks95 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:hi guys I really need help. my gc, wii, xbox and ps2 display 480p line2x in 16:9. Even if I put 4:3 in the console menu it still displays in wide screen.

I have tried to mess with the VESA 640x480 mode and the hsample/hactive values but these do not re-adjust the size they just move the screen. passthrough will show 4:3 so I dont know why line2x will not even if I adjust the 1440x960 to 1280x960.
You'll probably have to simply change the aspect ratio setting on your display, assuming it even allows that; if it doesn't, I think you're SOL.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, changing the aspect ratio on the console itself isn't going to affect the OSSC or your display; the OSSC either simply doesn't respect or it isn't capable of reading the aspect ratio metadata put out by consoles like the Xbox over YPbPr component (And probably the PS2, but I won't be able to verify that until I get my CRT hooked up again); and I'm pretty sure the OSSC doesn't indicate a specific aspect ratio to the display in any circumstance.
There is no metadata for a component signal. Pre-HDMI consoles that include widescreen support use anamorphic widescreen, meaning that whether they are set to widescreen or not, they will be outputting at roughly 720x480. In simplistic terms, if set to widescreen the image will be horizontally compressed to fit into that area, with the expectation that a widescreen TV will then stretch the picture back out to its expected aspect ratio.

In other words, the OSSC is seeing the same signal, it's all up to the display on how it handles the linedoubled version. Seeing 720x480 in passthrough mode, it assumes it's a fullscreen image. Seeing a higher resolution like 1440x960 or 1280x960, it assumes it's a widescreen image.
Then maybe it's my CRT doing some voodoo. I have a Sony KV-27FV310 that automatically switches to its enhanced widescreen mode when I switch when I change the Video setting to "Wide Screen" on an original Xbox connected via component, and it switches back when I switch it back to Normal.

Admittedly, I assumed that there was something that got passed along from the console to the display to indicate aspect ratio; so, if that's not the case, then it's heuristics performed by the display? What is my CRT looking at to automatically determine aspect ratio?
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bobrocks95
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by bobrocks95 »

nmalinoski wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:You'll probably have to simply change the aspect ratio setting on your display, assuming it even allows that; if it doesn't, I think you're SOL.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, changing the aspect ratio on the console itself isn't going to affect the OSSC or your display; the OSSC either simply doesn't respect or it isn't capable of reading the aspect ratio metadata put out by consoles like the Xbox over YPbPr component (And probably the PS2, but I won't be able to verify that until I get my CRT hooked up again); and I'm pretty sure the OSSC doesn't indicate a specific aspect ratio to the display in any circumstance.
There is no metadata for a component signal. Pre-HDMI consoles that include widescreen support use anamorphic widescreen, meaning that whether they are set to widescreen or not, they will be outputting at roughly 720x480. In simplistic terms, if set to widescreen the image will be horizontally compressed to fit into that area, with the expectation that a widescreen TV will then stretch the picture back out to its expected aspect ratio.

In other words, the OSSC is seeing the same signal, it's all up to the display on how it handles the linedoubled version. Seeing 720x480 in passthrough mode, it assumes it's a fullscreen image. Seeing a higher resolution like 1440x960 or 1280x960, it assumes it's a widescreen image.
Then maybe it's my CRT doing some voodoo. I have a Sony KV-27FV310 that automatically switches to its enhanced widescreen mode when I switch when I change the Video setting to "Wide Screen" on an original Xbox connected via component, and it switches back when I switch it back to Normal.

Admittedly, I assumed that there was something that got passed along from the console to the display to indicate aspect ratio; so, if that's not the case, then it's heuristics performed by the display? What is my CRT looking at to automatically determine aspect ratio?
Ah, my bad, I'm now reading that a signal pulse can be sent over the luma (green) line to indicate widescreen mode for devices that will look for it. That seems to be the only signal that it can send however, so it's not nearly as extensive as HDMI metadata.

However, the same resolution of 720x480 is still going to be output, so the OSSC doesn't need to change its sampling or anything like that (assuming you're in DTV mode). It still falls to how the display handles a 960p image. I don't see anything on the OSSC wiki indicating that you can change the metadata it sends to indicate widescreen or fullscreen, though I would have thought that would be an option?
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MidOrFeed2015
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by MidOrFeed2015 »

bobrocks95 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:hi guys I really need help. my gc, wii, xbox and ps2 display 480p line2x in 16:9. Even if I put 4:3 in the console menu it still displays in wide screen.

I have tried to mess with the VESA 640x480 mode and the hsample/hactive values but these do not re-adjust the size they just move the screen. passthrough will show 4:3 so I dont know why line2x will not even if I adjust the 1440x960 to 1280x960.
You'll probably have to simply change the aspect ratio setting on your display, assuming it even allows that; if it doesn't, I think you're SOL.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, changing the aspect ratio on the console itself isn't going to affect the OSSC or your display; the OSSC either simply doesn't respect or it isn't capable of reading the aspect ratio metadata put out by consoles like the Xbox over YPbPr component (And probably the PS2, but I won't be able to verify that until I get my CRT hooked up again); and I'm pretty sure the OSSC doesn't indicate a specific aspect ratio to the display in any circumstance.
There is no metadata for a component signal. Pre-HDMI consoles that include widescreen support use anamorphic widescreen, meaning that whether they are set to widescreen or not, they will be outputting at roughly 720x480. In simplistic terms, if set to widescreen the image will be horizontally compressed to fit into that area, with the expectation that a widescreen TV will then stretch the picture back out to its expected aspect ratio.

In other words, the OSSC is seeing the same signal, it's all up to the display on how it handles the linedoubled version. Seeing 720x480 in passthrough mode, it assumes it's a fullscreen image. Seeing a higher resolution like 1440x960 or 1280x960, it assumes it's a widescreen image.
thank you for the info. sad to say my TV only has only fullscreen or point to point for aspect ratio options. that is really a bummer but at least it is very tolerant for 5x240p
nmalinoski
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

MidOrFeed2015 wrote:thank you for the info. sad to say my TV only has only fullscreen or point to point for aspect ratio options. that is really a bummer but at least it is very tolerant for 5x240p
That's unfortunately limiting.

What make/model is your TV?
MidOrFeed2015
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by MidOrFeed2015 »

nmalinoski wrote:
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:thank you for the info. sad to say my TV only has only fullscreen or point to point for aspect ratio options. that is really a bummer but at least it is very tolerant for 5x240p
That's unfortunately limiting.

What make/model is your TV?
it is a Sylvania SLED5550 4K UHD TV
nmalinoski
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:thank you for the info. sad to say my TV only has only fullscreen or point to point for aspect ratio options. that is really a bummer but at least it is very tolerant for 5x240p
That's unfortunately limiting.

What make/model is your TV?
it is a Sylvania SLED5550 4K UHD TV
Ow. In that case, I think you'll either need to use an additional video processor that can properly pad that 4:3 image to 16:9, or buy a different TV.
headlesshobbs
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by headlesshobbs »

I'm going to make this post into a separate thread when I get the chance, so I'm editing this out.
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MidOrFeed2015
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by MidOrFeed2015 »

nmalinoski wrote:Ow. In that case, I think you'll either need to use an additional video processor that can properly pad that 4:3 image to 16:9, or buy a different TV.
note to self I guess is to research before buying. additional video processors would add lag though would it not?
I have my stuff going into a DENON AVR as well and sadly I tried all sorts of stuff on it and nothing worked.
nmalinoski
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:Ow. In that case, I think you'll either need to use an additional video processor that can properly pad that 4:3 image to 16:9, or buy a different TV.
note to self I guess is to research before buying. additional video processors would add lag though would it not?
I have my stuff going into a DENON AVR as well and sadly I tried all sorts of stuff on it and nothing worked.
Depends on the type of processing, I suppose. Scaling and unusual image transformations can take time and cause lag, but I believe padding a 4:3 image to 16:9 can be done with a simple linebuffer, not unlike what the OSSC has. I imagine it's possible for the OSSC to do it, and probably also letterboxing 16:9 and 16:10 to 4:3, but it doesn't currently do that, and I have no idea if or when something like that would/might be added.
MidOrFeed2015
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by MidOrFeed2015 »

nmalinoski wrote:
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:Ow. In that case, I think you'll either need to use an additional video processor that can properly pad that 4:3 image to 16:9, or buy a different TV.
note to self I guess is to research before buying. additional video processors would add lag though would it not?
I have my stuff going into a DENON AVR as well and sadly I tried all sorts of stuff on it and nothing worked.
Depends on the type of processing, I suppose. Scaling and unusual image transformations can take time and cause lag, but I believe padding a 4:3 image to 16:9 can be done with a simple linebuffer, not unlike what the OSSC has. I imagine it's possible for the OSSC to do it, and probably also letterboxing 16:9 and 16:10 to 4:3, but it doesn't currently do that, and I have no idea if or when something like that would/might be added.
does this call for an OSSC fw update then? :D
nmalinoski
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:note to self I guess is to research before buying. additional video processors would add lag though would it not?
I have my stuff going into a DENON AVR as well and sadly I tried all sorts of stuff on it and nothing worked.
Depends on the type of processing, I suppose. Scaling and unusual image transformations can take time and cause lag, but I believe padding a 4:3 image to 16:9 can be done with a simple linebuffer, not unlike what the OSSC has. I imagine it's possible for the OSSC to do it, and probably also letterboxing 16:9 and 16:10 to 4:3, but it doesn't currently do that, and I have no idea if or when something like that would/might be added.
does this call for an OSSC fw update then? :D
It calls for a comment from marqs. :P I imagine if it's possible, it'll have to wait until either the softcpu change is completed, and probably also until after some of the other already-on-hold additions are addressed.
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orange808
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by orange808 »

MidOrFeed2015 wrote: does this call for an OSSC fw update then? :D
Marqs addressed this question earlier in the thread.
marqs wrote:To decouple output (total) line width from sampling rate you'd need a separate clock signal which is both highly configurable and accurate. Add a couple dozen extra line buffers and you could then decouple vertical as well - which is what I'll be doing with cps2_digiav project in near future. Line3x generic 4:3 mode on ossc is a bit of an exception as it uses fixed (4/3)*3*Fs = 4*Fs for output, but in general you'd need a dedicated clock generator.
The OSSC can't do it with a simple firmware update because the dedicated clock generator isn't implemented in the design.
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marqs
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by marqs »

orange808 wrote:
marqs wrote:To decouple output (total) line width from sampling rate you'd need a separate clock signal which is both highly configurable and accurate. Add a couple dozen extra line buffers and you could then decouple vertical as well - which is what I'll be doing with cps2_digiav project in near future. Line3x generic 4:3 mode on ossc is a bit of an exception as it uses fixed (4/3)*3*Fs = 4*Fs for output, but in general you'd need a dedicated clock generator.
The OSSC can't do it with a simple firmware update because the dedicated clock generator isn't implemented in the design.
Even with sampling rate fixed, it's still possible to read linebuffer contents in whatever way to the output line being drawn. So technically it's possible to resize horizontally as much as one likes, but non-integer stretch/squeeze (with or without interpolation) will naturally come with loss in picture quality.
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Harrumph
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Harrumph »

Regarding 4:3/16:9 aspect ratio, I have already made a request to have this selectable via HDMI Infoframe. Though, it is possible this will ignored by most displays anyway, much like most displays seems to ignore the "IT content" Infoframe flag which is already implemented.

https://www.videogameperfection.com/for ... post-23226

Note that such an AR Infoframe flag would not in any way change how OSSC samples and outputs the image, it just contains a bit that says "active frame should be displayed in 4:3/16:9". I imagine this was originally intended for 480p HDMI signals anyway, so then it likely will not have any effect on an unusual format such as 1440x960.
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Syntax
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Syntax »

With OSSC and GBS if there was more room is it theoretically possable to record the input from the first few seconds of a console boot sequence and use that as place holder for automatic profile switching?
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orange808
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by orange808 »

Syntax wrote:With OSSC and GBS if there was more room is it theoretically possable to record the input from the first few seconds of a console boot sequence and use that as place holder for automatic profile switching?
Interesting concept.

In theory, you could pin down many consoles with a single scanline.
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Syntax
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Syntax »

The other option id like to see is a readout of the current or last frame of RGB levels.

This way you could run a white screen and see if your console is actually outputting a correct 255 .7vpp signal and tune accordingly.
nmalinoski
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

Syntax wrote:The other option id like to see is a readout of the current or last frame of RGB levels.

This way you could run a white screen and see if your console is actually outputting a correct 255 .7vpp signal and tune accordingly.
If the hardware could read voltages like that, I think it's possible to detect between RGsB and YPbPr by checking the blue and red lines to see if they float around 0.35V/350mV during the sync tip or ever go negative (Figures 60 and 59 respectively on page 30 of this PDF), whereas I believe RGB will always stay above 0V outside of the sync pulse.
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by rama »

The GBS 8200 scaler IC can output ADC conversion results over what they call the "test bus".
It's not documented well, but it seems to be the highest level seen on a scanline (maybe?).
The current value can be read out via I2C. It's obviously not fast enough for single pixel measurements ;)

Values typically are 0x80 or 0x00 for black, 0x7f or 0xff for "full on" (selectable for each color).
I use this for an auto gain feature, where it starts with too much gain and then gradually decreases it, until levels stay below maximum.
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Syntax
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Syntax »

nmalinoski wrote:
Syntax wrote:The other option id like to see is a readout of the current or last frame of RGB levels.

This way you could run a white screen and see if your console is actually outputting a correct 255 .7vpp signal and tune accordingly.
If the hardware could read voltages like that, I think it's possible to detect between RGsB and YPbPr by checking the blue and red lines to see if they float around 0.35V/350mV during the sync tip or ever go negative (Figures 60 and 59 respectively on page 30 of this PDF), whereas I believe RGB will always stay above 0V outside of the sync pulse.

Not sure about voltages but i know the ADC can output the 0-255 value of the last frame, Borti had a play with the firmware at one point I think..
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marqs
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by marqs »

Syntax wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
Syntax wrote:The other option id like to see is a readout of the current or last frame of RGB levels.

This way you could run a white screen and see if your console is actually outputting a correct 255 .7vpp signal and tune accordingly.
If the hardware could read voltages like that, I think it's possible to detect between RGsB and YPbPr by checking the blue and red lines to see if they float around 0.35V/350mV during the sync tip or ever go negative (Figures 60 and 59 respectively on page 30 of this PDF), whereas I believe RGB will always stay above 0V outside of the sync pulse.

Not sure about voltages but i know the ADC can output the 0-255 value of the last frame, Borti had a play with the firmware at one point I think..
Keep in mind that video inputs are AC coupled and clamped before ADC. With mid-level clamp it should be still possible to check whether ADC output stays above mid-level or dips under it during active video (which also depends on content).
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Galdelico »

Maybe some Euro folk can help me understand this quirk.

With my PAL original XBOX, it happens that I get a random (as in, it happens once in a while, but consistently) temporary 'black screen', when I exit from a PAL60 game and return to the PAL50 system's dashboard. Usually, the resync takes a second or two, but in that case the wait is way longer (around 15 seconds). It's not a proper sync drop, because the signal comes back on its own, it just takes more time.

It also occurs - once again, pretty randomly and less frequently - when I boot a PAL50 game from the PAL50 dashboard. In this case, though, the screen remains black. If I press any button on the remote, that brings video back to normal.

It's not a huge deal of course, I'm just curious about what can cause this. It happens with stock settings and tweaked profiles, it doesn't seem to be connected to that. Nothing like that happens with my PAL Nintendo GameCube, which does pretty much the same (in the way it swings from in-game PAL60 to PAL50 system's UI). Worth noting that I start noticing this more since I swapped my original Microsoft RGB Scart cable with a C-Sync one from Retrogamingcables.uk (btw, I use the same kind of cable with the GC too).

Thanks in advance! ^_-
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

Galdelico wrote:Maybe some Euro folk can help me understand this quirk.

With my PAL original XBOX, it happens that I get a random (as in, it happens once in a while, but consistently) temporary 'black screen', when I exit from a PAL60 game and return to the PAL50 system's dashboard. Usually, the resync takes a second or two, but in that case the wait is way longer (around 15 seconds). It's not a proper sync drop, because the signal comes back on its own, it just takes more time.

It also occurs - once again, pretty randomly and less frequently - when I boot a PAL50 game from the PAL50 dashboard. In this case, though, the screen remains black. If I press any button on the remote, that brings video back to normal.

It's not a huge deal of course, I'm just curious about what can cause this. It happens with stock settings and tweaked profiles, it doesn't seem to be connected to that. Nothing like that happens with my PAL Nintendo GameCube, which does pretty much the same (in the way it swings from in-game PAL60 to PAL50 system's UI). Worth noting that I start noticing this more since I swapped my original Microsoft RGB Scart cable with a C-Sync one from Retrogamingcables.uk (btw, I use the same kind of cable with the GC too).

Thanks in advance! ^_-
Loss of sync, and thus video, is a pretty common problem with HDMI and video mode changes; it's particularly bad for consoles like the SNES, N64, PS, and PS2, where game menus are in 480i and gameplay is in 240p. Unfortunately, there really isn't much you can do about it.

Probably the best way to prevent dropouts is to use a presentation scaler/switcher, but that comes with its own problems, like full-time framerate conversion to 50Hz or 60Hz, depending on what you set the output to, and added lag from the framerate conversion and scaling.

That said, it's unusual that your TV would go black and stay that way. Have you tried using your Xbox and OSSC on a different HDMI display to see if it exhibits the same behavior under the same circumstances?
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