OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[BuckoA51]

We’re currently up to subscriber number 164 on the backlog. If you haven’t had an invitation e-mail and you are subscriber number 164 or under, please message me so I can look into it.

[deltronik]

Here is a link to what I am seeing with my NESRGB Twin, OSSC, and Panasonic p50s60:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgzKZma ... e=youtu.be

You can see the title screen looks fine, but when the demo starts the horizontal distortion starts at the top and then goes down the whole screen over a few seconds.

I doubt it is an issue with the OSSC, as it does great with all of my other systems. So it seems likely it is some issue with the NESRGB that is more much more obvious using the OSSC vs the GBS+Gefen combo.

I was actually checking the image with my GBS+Gefen setup to verify that the Keene scart commander did not introduce any "wobble" to the video of the NESRGB for another member on this forum just the other day. I definitely did not notice anything like I am seeing now, let alone what the other user was seeing with his Keene.

Anyone have any ideas what is causing this?

Thanks!

[fafangus]

Hi guys

So yesterday I've received my OSSC, very fast shipping btw ^^

After open the parcel, I discover a well done good protected package.
The unit was here in his confortable foam, there were also the remote and the psu.

I had already done the pre-hooking service for the unit (deporting RGBs from my matrix), so I had just to plug my RGBs scart into, and my hdmi cable to my HC (Onkyo TX-NR 808).

So I've tested 4 setups with 4 consoles & 1 computer:

- Onkyo TX NR 808
- Samsung UE32J6300
- Xrgb-mini
- Crystalio CII 3300
#####################
- SFC (ntsc 1 chip)
- Neogeo AES (ntsc)
- Sega Saturn (ntsc)
- Sega Megadrive (ntsc)

- Amiga 1200 (pal)

My setup is like this :

240p > Sync Strike > Extron 203 Rxi > Extron RGBs Matrix > OSSC

Generaly all my systems are outputing Csync : SFC, Saturn, Megadrive, NeoGeo, except I think the Amiga 1200

So my first test was with the SFC + onkyo :
Line double : great results clean picture, soft scrolling, great score
Line triple : the same things, but with sharper pixels

The saturn was the same deal

The two systems works equally with the TV, onkyo, CII, xrgb-mini

Now let's go with the NeoGeo AES :
At first get a picture in line double mode, so just watching the intro of the games, turning off both systems (OSSC + console), turning on OSSC swithing to line triple mode, selecting the AV1 RGBs, and then...pictures was, but after 2/3 minutes, there were some jumping sync, I could see that on the OSSC; showing me that the resolution and freq was changing...so I couldn't do anything that solve the problem; swithing LPF to max/mid/low, switching the analogue sync Vth, the H-PLL values...doesn't do anything...

Maybe it's due to frequency that's the screen/hc/upscaler couldn't manage...

The same things happened on the megadrive, near the same way the neogeo does

I have to try with my DVDO VP50 (waiting it to be updated to 1.09), to see if it's just normal or if my hardware are not compatible for now with the OSSC

The amiga 1200 for the end...
So with this one I've got colours problems with the FM, I was hopping the OSSC not showing me same problems, that I not see/afect with the XRGB-3 or CRT...
The picture is sharp and beautifull, like the others systems, but I always have this colours problems (some lightning/weavy flash area of some colours background)
Line double works, line triple works

To finish, the OSSC was working well directly hooked to my TV, Onkyo, a better with the CII, because he could hangs better this kind of signals, and with the two systems that I have problems, it lasted longer, but in the end the pictures was also gone.

All my system could handle line double/triple with SFC, Saturn, Amiga without problems
The two other systems (NG AES, MD), like I said before, was showing and disapearing in both modes...

So I have to test it with VP50 now to see if it could handle them

More tests to come with other systems (pce, atari st, ps1...)

Thanks again Marqs and Matt & the comunity to offer us this kind of project

EDIT : Ok hooked the OSSC to my IIyama 27" seems to work properly with the neogeo aes, since there are no sync drops anymore...but the MD still not working at all (I've changed the PLL values to what is incated in the wiki, but nothing...) keep trying again

[fafangus]

Has anyone tried the linetriple/720p with a micomsoft xcapture-1?

Working with my sfc, but not tested others systems

[bytestorm]

Was actually on my way to akiba this weekend to buy myself a xrgb mini when I realized I didn't check this one for a great while..

For me who wants to play NES,SNES,NEO GEO,PS1, and maybe n64.. is this a better solution than a xrgb mini?

I will buy a new LCD monitor 24 or 27" to use it with. The only thing holding me from deciding to buy the XRGB mini has been the input lag..

Will I get the same quality picture with my SFC with this OSSC as with XRGB mini, on a proper LCD monitor?

EDIT: sorry if this has been answered somewhere in these 66 pages.. :/

[blizzz]

If you use the OSSC on a PC monitor there is a very high chance that you can use the linetriple mode which looks as sharp as the Framemeister and has less lag. On PS1 and N64 games you get slightly faster switching times between 240p and 480i with the OSSC. If you have a TV that doesn't support the linetriple mode (like a lot of Sony TVs) or you want to zoom in to remove black borders on the top and bottom then the Framemeister is the better choice.

[bytestorm]

If you use the OSSC on a PC monitor there is a very high chance that you can use the linetriple mode which looks as sharp as the Framemeister and has less lag. On PS1 and N64 games you get slightly faster switching times between 240p and 480i with the OSSC. If you have a TV that doesn't support the linetriple mode (like a lot of Sony TVs) or you want to zoom in to remove black borders on the top and bottom then the Framemeister is the better choice.

Thank for the input!

I only have a 24" tv, and will buy the best PC LCD i can find for my consoles.

How can I be sure the PC monitor supports the OSSC? anything specific to think about?

[lettuce]

So will the compatibility with linetriple mode ever increase with new FW updates at all?

[lettuce]

If you use the OSSC on a PC monitor there is a very high chance that you can use the linetriple mode which looks as sharp as the Framemeister and has less lag. On PS1 and N64 games you get slightly faster switching times between 240p and 480i with the OSSC. If you have a TV that doesn't support the linetriple mode (like a lot of Sony TVs) or you want to zoom in to remove black borders on the top and bottom then the Framemeister is the better choice.

I would say even if your TV doesn't support linetriple mode that the OSSC is still a very good option, especially when you factor in the price difference between it and the XRGB-Mini??. Ive been super happy with the picture this thing gives out even at 480p, a lot of that has to do with how the scanlines look on the xrgb-mini at 1080p...not a fan of them at all at that res

[BuckoA51]

@Fanfangus - Thank you for the feedback! I've no AES to test but the Megadrive shouldn't cause issues like that. Can you open a thread on the official forum so we can investigate it further?

@lettuce - I'd agree certainly on the newer Sony sets, the 480p upscaling on them is brilliant (yes I know, I'm biased )

[Daytime Dreamer]

@Fanfangus - Thank you for the feedback! I've no AES to test but the Megadrive shouldn't cause issues like that. Can you open a thread on the official forum so we can investigate it further?

@lettuce - I'd agree certainly on the newer Sony sets, the 480p upscaling on them is brilliant (yes I know, I'm biased )

I was randomly browsing NeoGAF, then stumbled upon their retro gaming threads, then found out about the OSSC and here I am. Like wow ...

Speaking about monitor/TV sets. I have the Sony 42W705B which is considered a very good set in terms of input lag. Has anyone done any tests with this one?

Any idea on the wait times if someone was to order one now?

[bobrocks95]

@Fanfangus - Thank you for the feedback! I've no AES to test but the Megadrive shouldn't cause issues like that. Can you open a thread on the official forum so we can investigate it further?

@lettuce - I'd agree certainly on the newer Sony sets, the 480p upscaling on them is brilliant (yes I know, I'm biased )

I was randomly browsing NeoGAF, then stumbled upon their retro gaming threads, then found out about the OSSC and here I am. Like wow ...

Speaking about monitor/TV sets. I have the Sony 42W705B which is considered a very good set in terms of input lag. Has anyone done any tests with this one?

Any idea on the wait times if someone was to order one now?

I have a 50W700B and testing the linemodes with a computer, linetripling does not work, if that's what you're asking about. I don't think any Sony TVs have worked with linetripling, at least not recent ones.

linedouble mode should work with just about everything.

[lettuce]

@Fanfangus - Thank you for the feedback! I've no AES to test but the Megadrive shouldn't cause issues like that. Can you open a thread on the official forum so we can investigate it further?

@lettuce - I'd agree certainly on the newer Sony sets, the 480p upscaling on them is brilliant (yes I know, I'm biased )

I was randomly browsing NeoGAF, then stumbled upon their retro gaming threads, then found out about the OSSC and here I am. Like wow ...

Speaking about monitor/TV sets. I have the Sony 42W705B which is considered a very good set in terms of input lag. Has anyone done any tests with this one?

Any idea on the wait times if someone was to order one now?

I have a 50W700B and testing the linemodes with a computer, linetripling does not work, if that's what you're asking about. I don't think any Sony TVs have worked with linetripling, at least not recent ones.

linedouble mode should work with just about everything.

What about 4K recent Sony TV's do they still fare the same?

[Xyga]

Is there a mode other than linedouble that'll work on the Sonys without the help of another scaler in the chain ? I don't know, but this kind of sucks.
Guess we can't have all the best things working together just like that.

[Daytime Dreamer]

What about 4K recent Sony TV's do they still fare the same?

I don't know about the 2016 models that were announced a couple of days ago but the Sony 2015 4K lineup has a lot of input lag. 2014 sets had minimal input lag. Just FYI.

[Xyga]

What about 4K recent Sony TV's do they still fare the same?

I don't know about the 2016 models that were announced a couple of days ago but the Sony 2015 4K lineup has a lot of input lag. 2014 sets had minimal input lag. Just FYI.

Several 2015 4K Sonys had only about 2 frames, that's not bad ! (it's not the 2013~2014 wonders but still)

[deltronik]

Is there a mode other than linedouble that'll work on the Sonys without the help of another scaler in the chain ? I don't know, but this kind of sucks.
Guess we can't have all the best things working together just like that.

I've been waiting on this since it was first announced and it always seemed that the 720p mode would just be a "bonus" for those few monitors that would take the oddly formatted 720p signal.

I am extremely satisfied with my OSSC given it's near perfect, lag free, line-doubling and scanlines at 480p.

This piece of hardware is always at the mercy of the display or other hardware you are feeding it due it's line-doubling technique. Judging by your comments, I could have told you you'd be happier with a framemeister before these even started shipping.

[lettuce]

What about 4K recent Sony TV's do they still fare the same?

I don't know about the 2016 models that were announced a couple of days ago but the Sony 2015 4K lineup has a lot of input lag. 2014 sets had minimal input lag. Just FYI.

Yeah i have a 2013 KDL-42W653A, that has like 1 frame of lag doesnt it?? So the 2015 4K set are considerably worse then?.

I guess this is going to be power for the cause for the foreseeable future where 4K sets are concerned?...its one of the factors putting me of getting a 4K set due to the increased input lag.....and maybe nothing will be as good as the 2013-2014 Sonys for input lag for a good long while!!?

[Xyga]

@deltronik: Oh don't get me wrong I am also extremely satisfied with the OSSC, and I can use a DVDO in th chain to get linetriple to show.
I'm just a bit disappointed that the Sonys are so unforgiving, as I would have liked to try mine directly (being more and more on a quest for minimal-optimal setups, to explain things).

[lettuce]

So what is the reason Sony sets struggle with linetriple mode and is there anything that can be added to the chain to get it to 'work'?...im guessing a future FW wouldn't be able to rectify the issue?

[Xyga]

I guess this is going to be power for the cause for the foreseeable future where 4K sets are concerned?...its one of the factors putting me of getting a 4K set due to the increased input lag.....and maybe nothing will be as good as the 2013-2014 Sonys for input lag for a good long while!!?

4K isn't the reason why there's more lag, several Samsung and Vizio sets are in the 1-frame area, and some monitors easily below that.
But in regards to Sony, yeah maybe they won't make any more sets as fast as the old FHD ones in a looooooong while...

[deltronik]

Oh don't get me wrong I am also extremely satisfied with the OSSC, and I can use a DVDO in th chain to get linetriple to show.
I'm just a bit disappointed that the Sonys are so unforgiving, as I would have liked to try mine directly (being more and more on a quest for minimal-optimal setups, to explain things).

I understand Xyga, I was kind of pushing the issue to make that point... sorry!

As more users continue to receive their units in the mail, the negative comments are growing in this thread, and even I dropped a couple of comments about issues I was having, so I wanted to turn it around and reset expectations for the readers just discovering OSSC that probably won't read 60+ pages of this thread.

I copy pasted my discussion of the NESRGB sync problem I am having to the OSSC support forum to keep that discussion elsewhere!

BTW, my panasonic tc-p50s60 is not working in line-triple. Although I had generally seen good compatibility reports with the panasonic sets, I had no expectation that mode would be a usable configuration for me.

How does the OSSC + VP50 combo in x3 compare to the framemeister directly? Would that result in a similar amount of lag?

[Xyga]

How does the OSSC + VP50 combo in x3 compare to the framemeister directly? Would that result in a similar amount of lag?

Less lag, since the OSSC produces close to none, and the VP's about 6ms in locked 60Hz output mode.
Picture quality will vary slightly with every DVDO model and settings, though not by much. Mini would probably be considered the more 'raw' and sharp-capable solution, but we're not talking about worlds of differences.

[Fudoh]

How does the OSSC + VP50 combo in x3 compare to the framemeister directly? Would that result in a similar amount of lag?

6-7ms on the DVDO/OSSC combo vs. 24ms on the FM.

[deltronik]

How does the OSSC + VP50 combo in x3 compare to the framemeister directly? Would that result in a similar amount of lag?

Less lag, since the OSSC produces close to none, and the VP's about 6ms in locked 60Hz output mode.
Picture quality will vary slightly with every DVDO model and settings, though not by much. Mini would probably be considered the more 'raw' and sharp-capable solution, but we're not talking about worlds of differences.

How does the OSSC + VP50 combo in x3 compare to the framemeister directly? Would that result in a similar amount of lag?

6-7ms on the DVDO/OSSC combo vs. 24ms on the FM.

Thanks!

Since my panasonic set seems to have a minimum of 30ms lag on it's own, I think the OSSC or DVDO+OSSC combo will probably be my best options for quality and lag that's available for the foreseeable future. If my panasonic was faster, a framemeister might have been a decent option, but I'm glad I held off for the OSSC so far.

[fafangus]

Hello there
So after testing some more this evening I hav a great news, everythings works ^^ well just the system I have tested !!
So I was talking to Xyga this afternoon, and he told me, he's always simplifing his circuit...so like mine is a little complicated, I follow this idea
So hooking the OSSc directly behind the sync strike was a great idea, the systems that won't worked before, or like the amiga, where I still got problem, worked very good.
Megadrive is okay, playing like 30 minutes, neogeo (like said before also), and the amiga 1200 give me full cristal stable colours and pictures !!

So, like this :

240p > Sync strike > OSSC > CII 3300

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 240p ntsc line double / line triple :
Samsung UE32J6300 :...........YES............../.....YES.....
CII 3300 :...........................YES............../.....YES.....
IIyama PLB2712HDS :............YES............./......YES.....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 240p pal line double / line triple :
Samsung UE32J6300 :...........YES............../.....NO.....
CII 3300 :...........................YES............../.....YES.....
IIyama PLB2712HDS :............YES............./......YES.....

Just played with amiga 1200 (so happy it's so beautifull) & megadrive this evening
Playing a lot with the CII 3300, not seeing any frame drops or other, maybe I have to play some games that runs full 60Hz to see (like sonic, or unirally)

I'll confirm/invalidate other systems this week, and if I could, take some video caps with the X1

Can't wait for X4/X5

[Xyga]

Glad you've sorted that out!

[deltronik]

Just tested a couple more of my displays.

My eMachines E211H works after switching the output mode to DVI. x2 and x3 work for both Genesis and NESRGB! Those were all I tested so far.

My Panasonic tc-32lx60 720p panel only works with 480p mode and looks pretty crappy as expected.

Here is what my eMachines E211H shows in line triple, I had to set the genesis to 4:3 generic and the nesrgb to 16:9 generic modes to get the correct aspect ratios for each for some reason:

Genesis

Spoiler

NESRGB

Spoiler

[cleeg]

For me the absolute best case scenario would be to have less lag between res + p/i switching when the OSSC is chained behind another device. I'd love to put its output signal into the Framemeister and keep the minimal lag it produces when run solo. I take it this could never be 'fixed?'

I use this exclusively for the Saturn at the mo for its superior res switching, but would ideally love to put all my systems through it and into my FM for its aspect correction and upscaling abilities.

One thing I've learned in this scene is patience; I'll one day own just the right TV or whatever that works perfectly with this stuff. In the meantime I can play quite happily knowing that I already have the more esoteric kit I need already.

Well done Marqs and Matt;I love this little machine!

By the way, does anyone have any idea if the FM would ever be able to switch as fast as the OSSC does between video signals?

[BuckoA51]

If they could have fixed/reduced the lag on the FM then it would almost certainly have been done by now. Only way you're going to get what you want is by tracking down a VP50 or VP50 Pro.