OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

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SavagePencil
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by SavagePencil »

Fudoh wrote:What you probably need are the advanced timing tweaker options (sampling options menu, last entry). Try the horizontal backporch length. It's important not to touch the active length, since this is directly based on the sampling rate.
Will do. I had only ever adjusted the various back porches for fine-tuning, but will give it a go.

BTW, I'm using FBX's proposed values, which have all largely worked for my other systems. If someone knows of any changes to make it more compatible, let me know.

FBX's NES values here: http://www.firebrandx.com/OSSC/OSSC%20- ... Timing.txt
fandangos
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by fandangos »

Does someone have any settings for the Nintendo 64 RGB modded?

I'm using 5x (1600x1200), generic 4:3. It seems ok but I wanted to see if I can sharper the picture even further or remove artifacts around Zelda OoT texts.
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NoAffinity
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by NoAffinity »

fandangos wrote:Does someone have any settings for the Nintendo 64 RGB modded?

I'm using 5x (1600x1200), generic 4:3. It seems ok but I wanted to see if I can sharper the picture even further or remove artifacts around Zelda OoT texts.
I've got mine pretty well dialed in, in an optimized mode. Will post my settings when I can get in front of the OSSC, tonight.
fandangos
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by fandangos »

NoAffinity wrote:
fandangos wrote:Does someone have any settings for the Nintendo 64 RGB modded?

I'm using 5x (1600x1200), generic 4:3. It seems ok but I wanted to see if I can sharper the picture even further or remove artifacts around Zelda OoT texts.
I've got mine pretty well dialed in, in an optimized mode. Will post my settings when I can get in front of the OSSC, tonight.
Cool! Thanks!
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NoAffinity
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by NoAffinity »

Here's what I got. The basic settings came from junkerhq. Your backporches and sampling phase may need to be changed. This only works in 1600x1200 when set to x5, for me. But, that could be a function of my TV.

320x240 opt
h. samplerate 387
h. synclen 22
h. backporch 31
h. active 320
v. synclen 3
v. backporch 14
v. active 240
sampling phase 56
video lpf 9mhz
analog sync lpf 2.5mhz

Zelda seems to have a lot of dithering. Seems there's less overall sharpness compared to SM64, for instance. I have N64RGB w/ deblur as well.
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NoAffinity
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by NoAffinity »

So now I have a question. I've long suspected that something is amiss with my N64 configuraiton. It's NTSC w/ N64RGB and deblur. I've noticed dancing pixels and potentially noise in backgrounds, but figured maybe it was just part of N64's video processing. But then I tried Fighting Force 64, and the effect is heavily present on the character select screen. Notice all the dancing pixels on teh asphalt and color highlights/blends? The effect isn't present in the character models and character profile pictures, however. Maybe I'm overreacting to a perfectly normal appearance of digitized analog. What do you guys think?

https://youtu.be/X2EVREA7wy0
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Gunstar
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Gunstar »

I think it might be how it's supposed to look and the deblur is unmasking the noise. I noticed this with another game (I forget which) where a normally transparent menu overlay looks noise free but when deblur is active you could see noise/dithering although I'm not sure if it was 'dancing' like in that fightforce64 example though.
fernan1234
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by fernan1234 »

@NoAffinity Do you have the borti firmware on your N64 RGB board? I believe it has a heuristic de-blur option where the de-blur would, if the heuristic gets it right, turn off for situations like that where it is not beneficial.
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Kez
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Kez »

NoAffinity wrote:Here's what I got.
Those settings will not be optimal for all N64 games. That is essentially simulating deblur (sampling 320 times horizontally instead of 640), but in any games which actually use the 640 horizontal resolution you will end up losing visual information (e.g. Goldeneye, Mario Tennis).
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NoAffinity
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by NoAffinity »

Thanks for the feedback, guys, and all good info wrt to this subject. I don't have the borti firmware, but have been meaning to flash it. I will have to give it a try.

Another game I noticed it is killer instinct gold. Just elemnts of the backgrounds. The sky in Maya's stage is very noticeable.
Kez wrote:
NoAffinity wrote:Here's what I got.
Those settings will not be optimal for all N64 games. That is essentially simulating deblur (sampling 320 times horizontally instead of 640), but in any games which actually use the 640 horizontal resolution you will end up losing visual information (e.g. Goldeneye, Mario Tennis).
Just to be clear on this, the settings will be good for 320 res games, but 640 res games should have different settings? Can you provide the optimized settings for 640 res games?
NewYears1978
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by NewYears1978 »

Anyone have good experience with monitors and the OSSC? Based on past posts I purchased a Viewsonic VX3276-mhd (1080p not 2k version) and I love it however it had EXTREME backlight bleed, I exchanged it and the second one was completely damaged. Amazon is now out so I can't get an exchange.

I am trying to find something else that is 32in and IPS locally but I only see a LG and a couple other brands. Curious if anyone has luck with certain brands?

I can't find a monitor compat list only a TV one. Help !
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Xyga
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Xyga »

The thing is there's nothing on the market nearly as good as the VX3276-mhd-2 (or/aka VX3211-mh) for the OSSC. At least in that price range and size.
That monitor is quite unique in many aspects, it doesn't stop at the OSSC, its unique always-useable overscan, and support for variable refresh rates via CRT emudrivers or other custom resolutions means, are big pluses. The scaling's also good, I love mine to death, wouldn't trade it for a another monitor 4 or 5 times its price.

You were just unlucky...but in general buying flat panels online is risky, even more so when they're IPS.

I've tried the LG 32MP58 and Samsung 32F351F (that one's a VA) which are both ok but don't support x5, honestly they're only good only for x3, and well the Samsung being VA at least it can handle the OSSC's bob deinterlacing without the now typical temporary pixel retension of IPSes.

Almost all manufacturers have simple 32inchers in their catalog, AOC, Philips, ASUS, etc but it's impossible to guess in advance how they'll behave with the OSSC.
Throw the dice, or try your luck again with the ViewSonic maybe in January.
Or save and get yourself an LG OLED some day. :p
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NewYears1978
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by NewYears1978 »

Xyga wrote:The thing is there's nothing on the market nearly as good as the VX3276-mhd-2 (or/aka VX3211-mh) for the OSSC. At least in that price range and size.
That monitor is quite unique in many aspects, it doesn't stop at the OSSC, its unique always-useable overscan, and support for variable refresh rates via CRT emudrivers or other custom resolutions means, are big pluses. The scaling's also good, I love mine to death, wouldn't trade it for a another monitor 4 or 5 times its price.

You were just unlucky...but in general buying flat panels online is risky, even more so when they're IPS.

I've tried the LG 32MP58 and Samsung 32F351F (that one's a VA) which are both ok but don't support x5, honestly they're only good only for x3, and well the Samsung being VA at least it can handle the OSSC's bob deinterlacing without the now typical temporary pixel retension of IPSes.

Almost all manufacturers have simple 32inchers in their catalog, AOC, Philips, ASUS, etc but it's impossible to guess in advance how they'll behave with the OSSC.
Throw the dice, or try your luck again with the ViewSonic maybe in January.
Or save and get yourself an LG OLED some day. :p

Are you saying the 2k (VX3276-MHD-2k instead of just the VX3276-MHD) model will work? Which is the non 1080p one? I could try that one I found it more available than the 1080p version.
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Xyga
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Xyga »

Nope I'm talking about the same VX3276-mhd-2 (the '2' at the end is the full name of the 1080 version) which is not the VX3276-2k-mhd.

(quite confusing, what the hell were they thinking)

About the '2k' (the latter): I don't know for sure, likely very close in design and quality, however it's not been confirmed with the OSSC, and it being 1440 you won't get a single pixel-perfect mode if that matters.
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NewYears1978
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by NewYears1978 »

Man. These are discontinued so I’m not going to be able to find one. There were some other sellers listed on amazon but as today progressed they were all removed.

I may have to keep he one with bleed. I couldn’t figure out how to fully remove he back panel it was stuck at the top. I could fix the bad bleed on bottom but sticking a card on the bottom. I’d rather have one I don’t have to rig though. Super disappointed. This model is discontinued in lieu of the 2k version
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Xyga
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Xyga »

I think the 2k-mhd was available some time before the mhd-2 in the US, the latter was probably listed there only for the course of 2018.

Maybe some more stock will come early 2019 if you're lucky, or even a new version during the year ? (VX3211-mh was 2017, VX3276-mhd-2 2018)
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NewYears1978
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by NewYears1978 »

Xyga wrote:I think the 2k-mhd was available some time before the mhd-2 in the US, the latter was probably listed there only for the course of 2018.

Maybe some more stock will come early 2019 if you're lucky, or even a new version during the year ? (VX3211-mh was 2017, VX3276-mhd-2 2018)
One thing I hate about Viewsonic is I can NEVER find the monitor I want from them. I have a VX2770 which is also an older model and right after I bought it I wanted a second one for my dual setup and never could find one.

I am trying to get Amazon to give me $100 credit if I keep the light bleed model. It was USABLE with taking off the back panel..but I can't fix the bleed on top because I couldn't figure out how to remove the panel completely at the top.

@Xyga Can you tell me what settings you use for Cont Bright, color and sharp (and anything else pertinent) on your 3276?



Edit:
Talked to Viewsonic, found out they are not discontinued just out of stock...Supposed to be restocked in a few weeks. So I Just have to return these two, and wait and try again. They told me almost NO stores carry this monitor only online. (interesting)


Also why do the LG OLED work so well, aren't they all 4k? I don't understand the diff in how the displays and OSSC handles each other. Do the LG OLED handle all resolutions fine or something?
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Xyga
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Xyga »

NewYears1978 wrote:@Xyga Can you tell me what settings you use for Cont Bright, color and sharp (and anything else pertinent) on your 3276?
I have the 3211 but they're practically identical.
other member w/ a 3211: thomago
other member w/ a 3276: xaranar

edit: there indeed seems to be a VX3276-mhd besides the VX3276-mhd-2, but I can't spot any difference at all, this '2' might point at regional sales designation, dunno.

viewmode: standard
low input lag: on
response time: advanced
brightness: to your appreciation of course, but I go like this: desktop: ~25, non-scanlined OSSC or emulator: 30~35, w/ scanlines ~50, w/ thick scanlines or shadow mask effect 70+ but almost never over 75.
contrast: generally around 70 but that too is to your appreciation and depends on the contents you're viewing
color temperature: user, with default RGB levels settings -> 'user' looks more vivid and contrasted than 'native', the latter's more tame and adapted to OS desktop imho
overscan: use it whenever to zoom the picture like 10%, this hides top and bottom borders where applying (again this option being available anytime for any source is extremely rare on monitors which for the huge majority have this always greyed-out)
aspect ratio: fill (usually works well for everything but you can force 4:3 or full anytime) (edit: seems like the 3276 rather offers choice of 4:3, 5:4, 16:9, 16:10)
sharpness: always default/50 if scanlines are on. With a plain non-scanlined picture don't hesitate to try 25 and 0 though, this quite good smoothing algorithm works on x2, x3, x4, but not on x5 when you're outputing in 1080 mode, which is normal since it's the 1:1 pixels scenario (if you turn overscan on there it 'exits' 1:1 and you'll be able to use smoothing again, but there will be very few situations where you'll need to go this far, this was just to explain where the ceiling is)

Everything else usually on default. I never touch the funky viewmodes like game, or the black stabilizer, DCR etc. All useless.
NewYears1978 wrote:Talked to Viewsonic, found out they are not discontinued just out of stock...Supposed to be restocked in a few weeks.
Yup it's a bit too early to officially discontinue this one anyway.
NewYears1978 wrote:Also why do the LG OLED work so well, aren't they all 4k? I don't understand the diff in how the displays and OSSC handles each other. Do the LG OLED handle all resolutions fine or something?
Yeah they do for most although upscaling the picture of course but the owners are so happy it's become the accepted 'big size' solution for the OSSC.
I don't have one but some people here and other forums go OSSC + LG OLED.
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Thomago
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Thomago »

My VX3211-mb:

Brightness = 30 (You should set whatever you like, all settings are valid.)
Contrast = 70 (As with all LCD monitors, everything above a certain contrast value - 70 in this case - crushes whites, everything below that makes the picture seem increasingly dull, so imho you should never divert from that value.)
View Mode = Standard (Everything else is a gimmick.)
Color Temperature = Native ("User" make the picture more vivid, but gives certain grey tones a greenish/yellowish tint I couldn't get rid of by adjusting the RGB/Hue/whatever settings in more detail.)
Aspect Ratio: That's the real beauty of this monitor - flexible aspect ratio control for every single input signal!

Btw, while the overscan option is a great feature, I don't use it as I usually go for "pixel perfect" settings; using the overscan option would axe that.
headlesshobbs
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by headlesshobbs »

I really wish there was a way to window 960p in a 1080p frame for interger, unless I'm missing something?

Couldn't care if that costs me 120 lines on screen, I just want the moir patterns gone.
"Don't HD my SD!!"
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Harrumph
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Harrumph »

NoAffinity wrote: Just to be clear on this, the settings will be good for 320 res games, but 640 res games should have different settings? Can you provide the optimized settings for 640 res games?
Not 100% but it should be pretty much just double the samplerate of 320 mode. You can use 512x240 optimized and adjust h.active to 640 (Lx4 should work best).
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maxtherabbit
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by maxtherabbit »

headlesshobbs wrote:I really wish there was a way to window 960p in a 1080p frame for interger, unless I'm missing something?

Couldn't care if that costs me 120 lines on screen, I just want the moir patterns gone.
I have no idea if the OSSC has the resources for it, but I would also love a mode like this

Being able to line double 480p (maybe even line quad 240p as well?) on a TV that doesn't support 960p would be great
NewYears1978
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by NewYears1978 »

Thanks all for the info (didn't want to spam up with quotes)

Also @Xyga it seems the -2 is the UK model, the US model doesn't have the -2
They seem to be readily available in the UK though lol - just my luck.

Because Amazon was out but they had 2 in stock from their warehouse (amazon fulfillment) they gave me a credit for $133 so I could buy that one. So hopefully this one will be in good shape. Coming Tuesday.
if not I will refund it (will get $333 back even though I only paid $199 originally) and then wait til more stock comes in.

Wish me luck!
headlesshobbs
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by headlesshobbs »

maxtherabbit wrote:
headlesshobbs wrote:I really wish there was a way to window 960p in a 1080p frame for interger, unless I'm missing something?

Couldn't care if that costs me 120 lines on screen, I just want the moir patterns gone.
I have no idea if the OSSC has the resources for it, but I would also love a mode like this

Being able to line double 480p (maybe even line quad 240p as well?) on a TV that doesn't support 960p would be great
A couple years ago we had a discussion in one thread that Fudoh suggested HDTV scalers are just about as good, if not better then the scalers currently on the market and I made my suggestion to take advantage of this by having someone build a line doubler that doesn't do anything to screw with the image. I was pretty happy when we got the ossc later on, but when I found out that some tv's just don't accept certain signals, I was pretty worried this train of thought was a mistake on my end. Now it's 2018 and those mod scalers we see being put in consoles, FPGA setups and such are so cheap, I can't help but think of what an OSSC 2 would be like if the same multiples for interger scaling and support for true 480i deinterlacing could do for the scene should that ever come into fruition?

For digital preservation we were always so close, but clearly a few steps off. Now I'm thinking with all this technology being affordable, we can actually achieve that and not have to pay $2,000 for some fancy equipment.
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thebigcheese
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by thebigcheese »

NewYears1978 wrote:Also why do the LG OLED work so well, aren't they all 4k? I don't understand the diff in how the displays and OSSC handles each other. Do the LG OLED handle all resolutions fine or something?
I believe that it's partly that there are no OSSC compatibility issues, but also that the LGs allow you to somewhat customize the scaling so you can get near pixel perfection. Don't quote me on that, though. TCLs, at least here in the US, also do a fantastic job of working with the OSSC. The nice thing about 4K TVs is that they are a line double of 1080p but, importantly for 240p content, a perfect line triple of 720p. And most of them seem to basically just do nearest neighbor scaling for at least 1080p content, so it leaves it nice and sharp. Having said that, I do find that setting the OSSC to line 5x at 1200p yields sharper results than having the TV scale a 720p signal. Odd, but it works so whatever.

8K displays are super unnecessary from a pixel density standpoint for the majority of people, but they will be a perfect integer scale of 480p, so that's nice. Not that the TVs will actually bother to do nearest neighbor for such a low resolution, but whatever.
EthicalShooter
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by EthicalShooter »

Just FYI, I recently found out the Hauppauge HD PVR is capable of decoding both composite and s-video to component without lag.
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orange808
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by orange808 »

EthicalShooter wrote:Just FYI, I recently found out the Hauppauge HD PVR is capable of decoding both composite and s-video to component without lag.
I call shenanigans.

Can anybody confirm this?
We apologise for the inconvenience
EthicalShooter
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by EthicalShooter »

orange808 wrote:
EthicalShooter wrote:Just FYI, I recently found out the Hauppauge HD PVR is capable of decoding both composite and s-video to component without lag.
I call shenanigans.

Can anybody confirm this?
I plugged in my N64 to the PVR via s-video, then plugged the PVR's output (component-only) into the OSSC, and voila, the game showed up on the TV with a decent enough picture quality.

Here it is in action
NewYears1978
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by NewYears1978 »

Got my 3rd VX3276-mhd..still have significant bleed but just gonna have to learn to ignore it..I don't want to send it back yet again lol...wish there was a was to fix it..I can on the bottom (moving the back panel solves it.) but not the top.

Oh well =D

One thing I have to get used to is the black bars (well grey, since I turned on mask brightness to hide some bleed issues). I am used to full 4:3 filling my screen..the bars annoy me lol. but it looks to stretched in fill mode :)


I don't understand what "Hybrid" scanlines are..they seem to lighten up the darkness from the normal scanlines which I run at full %..but I don't really get what they are (even after reading wiki)
I hope we get more scanline options in the future (like thickness and transparency or something..I notice they don't work well in all modes)
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Xyga
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Xyga »

You are quite unlucky but sadly it's not uncommon that an unhealthy % of a stock of IPS displays would show some backlight bleed, it's been the same since they've become commonplace on the market as - ALL - manufacturers save money on quality control.
The backlight technology used with LCDs was never good-enough, another advantage of self-emitting panel techs like OLED is that this probem's gone for good.

Black borders/bars: I think you've missed that this monitor has a rare overscan switch you can use anytime. :wink:

Hybrid: it's an attempt at rebalancing the brightness/thickness relationship, since CRTs don't have homogeneous scanlines but thicker where it's bright and thinner where it's dark (note: everyone calls the dark lines 'scanlines' but it's the other way around)
I use hybrid all the time but in moderate amounts, and different settings depending on the multiple factor. You'll soon find your favourite settings.
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