OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[Fudoh]

however I think the scaling engine on the micro is somewhat improved over the older machines

that's the anti-ringing algorithm introduced in the iScan Mini. On the Mini is was an user-option, while I think it's constantly enabled on the Micro.

and if it can aid in compatibility (OSSC) it seems like a much better and less complicated solution then adding a bunch of conversions to the chain. and less confusing overall.

how much is the Micro right now ? For a simple HDMI to component conversion we're talking $25 and the same - if needed - for the other way around. The iScan Mini is hardly available any cheaper than a 50pro, so I would say that's out of the question.

[Blair]

a few weeks ago the micro was on sale for $30 (now its back up to $65 most places) and the local shop near me had a bunch of them for $49.99. so I picked it up (because I kicked myself for missing the initial sale).

it's true that the mini has been a bit expensive lately, although I've seen it go for $90 or less on eBay and a few other places. prices must be artificially inflated because of the professional "test equipment" aspect they like to sell it under I guess.

but I have a feeling for the next year or two, the micro will be on and off sale. (maybe they're trying to get rid of stock for a newer model?)

even if I don't get the OSSC anytime soon, I have other uses for the micro. (so I consider it a good and useful investment). as I said before it looks pretty fantastic with an HDMI enabled Wii (or even Xbox) and it's nice to have a backup processor in case anything crazy happens or if I need it for portability.

a lot of the reviews I've been reading lately seem to say most of the recent HD TV's and and even UHD TV's are doing a pretty poor job with 480p sources, and since I still have a pretty sizable backlog of 480p titles, it's nice to have something that can do a decent job with them. especially if I buy a new television anytime soon and that just happens to be a weak point. my current television does best with a straight 1080p 60 signal, other than its poor upscaling capabilities it's a fantastic panel.

I still think digital to analog conversion should always be a a last resort. at least when it comes to most LCDs's (because of the generally poor handling of analog signals on most sets)

[RGB0b]

how much is the Micro right now ? For a simple HDMI to component conversion we're talking $25 and the same - if needed - for the other way around. The iScan Mini is hardly available any cheaper than a 50pro, so I would say that's out of the question.

Look like the micro is just under $300 on eBay. Do you mean this for HDMI to component?: http://www.ebay.com/itm/322112913967

I never even thought to try that...

[Blair]

how much is the Micro right now ? For a simple HDMI to component conversion we're talking $25 and the same - if needed - for the other way around. The iScan Mini is hardly available any cheaper than a 50pro, so I would say that's out of the question.

Look like the micro is just under $300 on eBay. Do you mean this for HDMI to component?: http://www.ebay.com/itm/322112913967

I never even thought to try that...

I think you're looking at the mini not the micro (confusing similar names)

I just did a quick search and the micro is $79 on amazon and as low as 99 cents on US eBay (but most of them seem to be going for $60)



now I don't know for sure if the micro will work with the OSSC, so if you don't have any other use for it as a Video scaler (just in case it doesn't) maybe don't get until somebody else has tested it.

[RGB0b]

I think you're looking at the mini not the micro (confusing similar names)

I just did a quick search and the micro is $79 on amazon and as low as 99 cents on US eBay (but most of them seem to be going for $60)

You're correct, sorry about that. That thing is tiny. How much processing power can actually be in that little thing? For $80, it might be worth testing with the OSSC though.

[Fudoh]

How much processing power can actually be in that little thing?

the same as other DVDO processors, but without all the user-adjustable options.

[Blair]

You're correct, sorry about that. That thing is tiny. How much processing power can actually be in that little thing.

I'm thinking about doing a small (or micro, heh) review for it. I've not seen any real impressions on it, especially from a gamer perspective.

it does a nice job with most 480p and 720p sources, have not had a chance to test its UHD functions (480p,720p,1080p > 4k). I just Wish DVDO had it do pass-through on interlaced signals instead of the crappy job it does with them. (makes no sense why DVDO would let it ship like that) however with the OSSC that's not going to be a problem as it can take care of interlacing (and 240p) on its own.

the same as other DVDO processors, but without all the user-adjustable options.

when feeding it 480p from a PS2 it had almost no under-scan issues, and 480p from other sources (Wii, Cube, Xbox) were perfect and complacently filling the screen. same with all 720p sources. so 98 percent of the time you shouldn't need stretching/zoom options. and for aspect ratio most TVs still have a 16:9 or 4:3 option (right?)

[RGB0b]

the same as other DVDO processors, but without all the user-adjustable options.

That's impressive. Any idea on how much lag this (or the mini) ads?

Also, what do you think about that HDMI to component box? Worth trying on TV's that aren't compatible with OSSC's linetriple mode?

I'm thinking about doing a mini (or micro, lol) review for it. I've not seen any real impressions on it, especially from a gamer perspective.

Fudoh's already got a detailed review of the Mini, but not the micro...unless I just couldn't find it.

[Fudoh]

That's impressive. Any idea on how much lag this (or the mini) ads?

The Mini should be identical to the Edge in Gamemode. Micro - no idea, but I would guess the same.

Also, what do you think about that HDMI to component box? Worth trying on TV's that aren't compatible with OSSC's linetriple mode?

yes, I already got two to test it - just haven't got around to it yet.

but not the micro...unless I just couldn't find it.

right, I didn't find it very interesting.

[marqs]

Also if anyone is still wondering, GBI ULL works fine with the OSSC.

Out of curiosity, what number of scanlines, H/V rate (and VSM, LO in the extra info page) does OSSC report? Those should give some insight why it doesn't work with all displays.

[FBX]

Finally got line triple mode working with the VP50. Here's the new comparison pic:

Spoiler

So while definitely improved, the VP50's scaler still butchers the image a bit. I also tried 720p output, but with same results.

[Blair]

Finally got line triple mode working with the VP50. Here's the new comparison pic:
So while definitely improved, the VP50's scaler still butchers the image a bit. I also tried 720p output, but with same results.

FBX, that actually looks like it's in spitting distance of the framemeister, I would say it's very much improved. and I think you could get a lot closer with a few adjustments.

I've never really understood DVDO's obsession with over sharpening images (even in recent interviews, they just love sharpening to the extreme).

is line-triple mode playable on your VP50?

(have you made sure to turn off all the extra processing features?) (what is the lowest value your AV lip-synch setting reports?)

have to be careful with some of the VP50's aspect ratio settings, as they can do weird things to pixel graphics.

I have a few classic systems directly hooked into my Edge Green with some pretty good results, have you tried a negative sharpening value? for my Sega Saturn in 240p I have a negative sharpening value of -32 and brightness adjusted to -8

although because you're input is at a higher resolution you probably wouldn't have to adjust the sharpening value that low to get a better result, if you get a chance could you try lowering the sharpening value in 10 point increments and posting three comparison shots? (but if you can't, that's okay. don't go out of your way) I'm very curious to see what that looks like on your end.

[FBX]

FBX, that actually looks like it's in spitting distance of the framemeister, I would say it's very much improved. and I think you could get a lot closer with a few adjustments.

Already messed with various picture settings, but nothing really makes it look any better than the default zero values. That's not to say it isn't decent though. I just don't like it as much as the Framemeister. I suppose if you were a stickler for wanting minimal lag in your fighting games, this combo would be better suited for your needs. Not sure how much used VP50's cost these days though. When new, they cost a small fortune.

[Blair]

Already messed with various picture settings, but nothing really makes it look any better than the default zero values. That's not to say it isn't decent though. I just don't like it as much as the Framemeister. I suppose if you were a stickler for wanting minimal lag in your fighting games, this combo would be better suited for your needs.

I appreciate the lowest possible input lag for most games, it's one of the reasons I'm usually in favor of DVDO's solutions over the framemeister. (and the fact that 480i transitions are pretty snappy compared to other solutions)

Your picture quality comments make me wonder if the older DVDO machines might be better suited to upscaling graphics as I don't remember them having any kind of ringing. (in fact I remember them actually having a very pleasant effect on 240p graphics, but the input leg made me seek out the newer models).

perhaps the older HD and HD+ would give results much closer to the framemeister when paired with the OSSC?

and that would also be the same small 6ms amount of input lag as the newer machines. it's definitely worth a try (anybody here with the OSSC have some older DVDO gear to test with it?)

[cfx]

VP50 (not pro) are generally under $200 on ebay for someone selling refurbs recently.

Aside from the sharpening and ringing, I see two differences in the last comparison: 1) still looks like higher contrast in the DVDO picture; blacks are clearly darker as are whites; 2) Unless it's an optical illusion from the increased contrast, I think the horizontal aspect ratio is wrong; it looks narrower than the XRGB sample.

Which device is preferable (obviously) depends on your needs and which drawbacks and quirks you're willing to put up with. I managed to get to try both a Framemeister and DVDO and chose the DVDO. But my use is for a 480p CRT, only for deinterlacing 480i PS2 games. I have no interest in 240p performance since I can and do run that natively on the monitor. In my case, there is no noticable image quality difference between the two, but the deinterlacing of the DVDO is superior, and ultimate sharpness is what I did not want since I don't want to amplify aliasing issues with PS2 3D. I also find the DVDO far less fiddly to set up and adjust. I also wanted the option to use it with video sources, for which the DVDO is better tailored.

Blair, is your Saturn a model 1 or model 2? I ask that because at least the ones I've dealt with model 2s have a hotter output and thus would need a lower brightness than a model 1 or most other consoles probably. I don't have a handle on DE/EE settings or the other picture controls yet so I may use your numbers as a place to start to see what things look like.

That's a good question about the older DVDOs. What I gathered from Fudoh's page was that pre-VP20 they weren't great with 240p which I think is why the older ones haven't been favored for game use; but paired with the OSSC that wouldn't be an issue at all.

[Fudoh]

perhaps the older HD and HD+ would give results much closer to the framemeister when paired with the OSSC?

indeed. The drawback is that they can only hald 480p input though and not 720p.

[FBX]

I re-uploaded the latest comparison picture after adjusting the VP50's AR to match the Framemeister profile. It may take 10 minutes for the site to update the image though.

On the color/ contrast/ saturation/ front, I'm not so much worried about that as I am edge clarity and artifacts like ringing. Line triple mode definitely makes it a closer call with the VP50.

Edit: Screw it. Here's the new image renamed:

Spoiler

.

[Blair]

Blair, is your Saturn a model 1 or model 2? I ask that because at least the ones I've dealt with model 2s have a hotter output and thus would need a lower brightness than a model 1 or most other consoles probably.

Yes, all of my Sega Saturn's are model 2 variants. One of them only likes outputting with C-sync and the others prefer sync on Luma (not sure why Saturns are like that).

The video output definitely benefited from a brightness adjustment in DVDO's picture settings menu.

(curious thing I've noted is that PlayStation 2's seem to output a brighter signal when playing PlayStation 1 games so I usually adjust brightness by -5 points when playing those on my Edge Green setup).

I don't have a handle on DE/EE settings or the other picture controls yet so I may use your numbers as a place to start to see what things look like.

Generally, if you're talking about PlayStation 2 480i games, most of them don't need sharpness adjustments. (Especially if you're using game mode 2) although some games do apply weird blur filters (often a flicker filter) so I usually take it on a by game by game basis. For instance, original Virtua fighter 4 on PS2 has an incredibly sharp video output, but Virtua fighter 4 evolution is rather blurry (mostly due to a bad implementation of anti-aliasing).

Or were you interested in picture adjustments for other resolutions?

That's a good question about the older DVDOs. What I gathered from Fudoh's page was that pre-VP20 they weren't great with 240p which I think is why the older ones haven't been favored for game use; but paired with the OSSC that wouldn't be an issue at all.

indeed. The drawback is that they can only handle 480p input though and not 720p.

Well I know that the original HD can only upscale 480i/480p however the HD+ can also take 720p and 1080i. the only problem with that is my HD plus, when I tested it didn't really seem to like off-spec resolutions on its digital input. So it might have the same compatibility problems as modern TVs when it comes to the OSSC, but I would definitely like to give it a try. (Right now I'm using my HD+ as an HDMI/component hub for my PVM 20L5)

I re-uploaded the latest comparison picture after adjusting the VP50's AR to match the Framemeister profile. It may take 10 minutes for the site to update the image though.

On the color/ contrast/ saturation/ front, I'm not so much worried about that as I am edge clarity and artifacts like ringing. Line triple mode definitely makes it a closer call with the VP50.

according to my research, brightness and contrast are the main components of what's perceived as a "sharper image" to the human eye. you'd be surprised how properly calibrating those settings would improve your viewing experience. (and then maybe try dialing the sharpness down by -5 or -10)

[FBX]

you'd be surprised how properly calibrating those settings would improve your viewing experience. (and then maybe try dialing the sharpness down by -5 or -10)

Sharpness is at zero and only goes to -1 on the VP50. Not much different than zero, except for slightly softer edges in a few spots. But as I said, I've already played around with the VP50's various brightness/contrast/saturation settings, and the defaults are about as good as it gets.

[BuckoA51]

Even close up I couldn't spot any ringing on my VP50 Pro + OSSC when I had the OSSC in line triple, but I can see just a hint of it in FBXs shots. Even so you'd not really notice that at usual viewing distances.

[FBX]

Even close up I couldn't spot any ringing on my VP50 Pro + OSSC when I had the OSSC in line triple, but I can see just a hint of it in FBXs shots. Even so you'd not really notice that at usual viewing distances.

It's harder to tell from these screengrabs, but running live the Framemeister looks definitely clearer. It's one of those things though, where you'd be plenty happy with the VP50 if you never tried the Framemeister.

[Blair]

Sharpness is at zero and only goes to -1 on the VP50. Not much different than zero, except for slightly softer edges in a few spots. But as I said, I've already played around with the VP50's various brightness/contrast/saturation settings, and the defaults are about as good as it gets.

oh, sorry about that, I didn't realize regular VP50s were so different from VP50pro's in regards to their picture settings. I knew they didn't have edge enhancement settings but I didn't know they had such limited sharpness adjustments.

Have you tried setting the output of the VP50 to 1080i to see what that looks like on your television? (In regards to the sharpness or softness of the picture)

It's harder to tell from these screengrabs, but running live the Framemeister looks definitely clearer. It's one of those things though, where you'd be plenty happy with the VP50 if you never tried the Framemeister.

Do you mean like motion blur? Or black smearing?

FBX, are you going to be using the OSSC in conjunction with the framemeister for most of your gaming? If so what's the advantage of that? (Wouldn't it be better just to have your systems processed by the framemeister?)

If you use an HDMI splitter you could technically use both processors with the OSSC, and just decide on a per-game basis what suits you best for the type of processing you need. (Low input lag versus cleaner scaling)

I'm using a View HD splitter and it does a pretty good job with everything I throw at it.

Even close up I couldn't spot any ringing on my VP50 Pro + OSSC when I had the OSSC in line triple, but I can see just a hint of it in FBXs shots. Even so you'd not really notice that at usual viewing distances.

makes me wonder if the upscaling engines on the two models of VP50 are somewhat different... (probably not)

[BuckoA51]

Probably me just not noticing it. I usually play with scanlines on too which made ringing harder to spot in 480p let alone 720p.

It's harder to tell from these screengrabs, but running live the Framemeister looks definitely clearer. It's one of those things though, where you'd be plenty happy with the VP50 if you never tried the Framemeister.

I have both but I rarely use my Framemeister just because the ABT scalers are so much easier to work with, though I appreciate my opinion is not impartial in this matter

[sk8er000]

Every time I try to upscale the 720p image from the ossc to 1080p with the vp50 from a NTSC console and a 240p image like snes, md or nes I get the image for a split second, then I get no signal from the TV, is there some particular setting to get the image work?
The only console that let me see the signal is the ps1 (ex. Crash bandicoot that runs at 240p)

Thank you in advance

Inviato dal mio Nexus 9 utilizzando Tapatalk

[ZellSF]

Update firmware to 1.09 if it's not already at that.

Disable cadence detection and HDCP in input settings.

If it still doesn't work, disable framerate lock in output settings. If that works, sorry your display doesn't support the refresh rate outputted by the console at the resolution you're scaling to.

[RGB0b]

Every time I try to upscale the 720p image from the ossc to 1080p with the vp50 from a NTSC console and a 240p image like snes, md or nes I get the image for a split second, then I get no signal from the TV, is there some particular setting to get the image work?
The only console that let me see the signal is the ps1 (ex. Crash bandicoot that runs at 240p)

That sounds like what was happening to me. The way I fixed it was by finding a monitor that didn't go black after turning the console on, then turned off "cadence detection". Once that was turned off, the VP50 remembered the setting and it worked on everything I tried. Can you try loading PS1, then checking to see the setting is off? Also, what version of the VP50's firmware are you using?

[BuckoA51]

The way I fixed it was by finding a monitor that didn't go black after turning the console on, then turned off "cadence detection".

Remember if you can't get a picture you can access all the options from the LCD on the front of the unit too. Since when you go from 480p to 720p you're changing resolution, the VP50 might re-enable cadence detection etc or even try and output at a nonsensical resolution/refresh rate. Getting used to the input/output profiles takes time, but they're very useful (pity they can't be renamed).

[sk8er000]

Every time I try to upscale the 720p image from the ossc to 1080p with the vp50 from a NTSC console and a 240p image like snes, md or nes I get the image for a split second, then I get no signal from the TV, is there some particular setting to get the image work?
The only console that let me see the signal is the ps1 (ex. Crash bandicoot that runs at 240p)

That sounds like what was happening to me. The way I fixed it was by finding a monitor that didn't go black after turning the console on, then turned off "cadence detection". Once that was turned off, the VP50 remembered the setting and it worked on everything I tried. Can you try loading PS1, then checking to see the setting is off? Also, what version of the VP50's firmware are you using?

I'm using the latest firmware available for the vp50, I've tried turning off the cadence detection and now from a no signal screen I get a blinking image from the ossc and from time to time I it remains for some seconds.. I'm really confused
Edit:

Always more confused, in the time I was writing here and without touch anything the blinking image is become stable. Now I can see the image from the consoles without any issue changing the channel from the switches or turning them on or off. But I'm scared to turn off the ossc or the vp50 I think that doing that I'll lose that limbo

[ZellSF]

Every time I try to upscale the 720p image from the ossc to 1080p with the vp50 from a NTSC console and a 240p image like snes, md or nes I get the image for a split second, then I get no signal from the TV, is there some particular setting to get the image work?
The only console that let me see the signal is the ps1 (ex. Crash bandicoot that runs at 240p)

That sounds like what was happening to me. The way I fixed it was by finding a monitor that didn't go black after turning the console on, then turned off "cadence detection". Once that was turned off, the VP50 remembered the setting and it worked on everything I tried. Can you try loading PS1, then checking to see the setting is off? Also, what version of the VP50's firmware are you using?

I'm using the latest firmware available for the vp50, I've tried turning off the cadence detection and now from a no signal screen I get a blinking image from the ossc and from time to time I it remains for some seconds.. I'm really confused
Edit:

Always more confused, in the time I was writing here and without touch anything the blinking image is become stable. Now I can see the image from the consoles without any issue changing the channel from the switches or turning them on or off. But I'm scared to turn off the ossc or the vp50 I think that doing that I'll lose that limbo

To repeat BuckoA51 in a pretty important statement: did you turn off cadence detection (and HDCP) for BOTH linetriple and linedouble mode? You'll also have to turn them off for 480i if you have any interlaced content.

[Xyga]

Blinking/out of range etc: this is something the DVDO machines do sometimes, in particular in the beginning when you don't yet know all the quirks, also the cables used and more importantly the PSU can play a role for stability (bad HDMI cable or a tired SinPro brick, true story).