OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

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orange808
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by orange808 »

geiger9 wrote: Regarding lag and the OSSC. I am going to be using original hardware (SNES, NES, MD) so no lag there. The OSSC introduces no lag regardless of the multiplier. The lag will come into effect after the display device receives the signal. The display will introduce lag either from the upscaling required or the picture processing (it's both of those things, right?)
Yes.
geiger9 wrote: 1. Will it matter if the OSSC feeds into a monitor designed for gaming versus a TV? The three systems I listed above have odd resolutions and I'm wondering if a "gaming monitor" will have an easier time accepting the weird resolution. I'm also told that the refresh rate will cause a problem. For example, the NES runs at 60.10 whereas spec is 59.94. Again, will a monitor designed for gaming be more forgiving and accept it?
There are no guarantees. :( Make sure you buy new displays from a seller that accepts returns.

Also, research your display. People will try to railroad you into buying an LG OLED right now, but you might be happier with something different. Remember that lots of the posts are from people that feel a need to "validate" their possessions.

For instance, the LG's video processing for video/movies kinda sucks. Is your new display for games only? Are you really only going to play old games?

If you are going to get a seperate display just for old games, do you even want a digital display? Wouldn't a CRT be a better fit? You might not want an OSSC right now.

If you buy an OLED for all your viewing and gaming, you might wait and see what Sony does this year. Sony's video processing is miles ahead of LG for watching video, so we just need a good game mode and Freesync/VRR for games. OLED is still fairly new, so you might want to wait and see what develops.
geiger9 wrote: 2. Has anyone hooked up an AV Famicom with Tim Worthington's RGB mod plus a YPbPr transcoder? is it affected by jitter? If I am reading his website right, it indicates it will but perhaps I'm reading that wrong.
There is an RGB mod with dejitter. For best results, skip the component transcoder and feed RGB directly to the OSSC.
geiger9 wrote: 3. Do both monitors and TVs use HDCP? My thinking was that if the OSSC feeds a signal over HDMI, the TV has one more thing to process - the content protection. If both types of displays use it, will converting HDMI to DVI fix this and then there is one less thing to process and therefore contribute to lag?
You shouldn't have any HDCP issues at all with 8 bit and 16 bit machines.
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shmupsrocks
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by shmupsrocks »

I noticed significantly more lag at non-native resolution on my 1600x1200 Dell 2007FP IPS LCD.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Konsolkongen »

orange808 wrote: For instance, the LG's video processing for video/movies kinda sucks. Is your new display for games only? Are you really only going to play old games?

...

If you buy an OLED for all your viewing and gaming, you might wait and see what Sony does this year. Sony's video processing is miles ahead of LG for watching video, so we just need a good game mode and Freesync/VRR for games. OLED is still fairly new, so you might want to wait and see what develops.
Since you are specifically mentioning Sony, I assume you are talking about motion smoothing and frame interpolation, where they do fare much better than other companies. But you need to remember that a lot of people don't like this stuff at all. I would personally never turn it on, even if my LG did it as well as Sony. So it's a bit much to imply that you can't watch movies on an LG :)
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orange808
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by orange808 »

Konsolkongen wrote:
orange808 wrote: For instance, the LG's video processing for video/movies kinda sucks. Is your new display for games only? Are you really only going to play old games?

...

If you buy an OLED for all your viewing and gaming, you might wait and see what Sony does this year. Sony's video processing is miles ahead of LG for watching video, so we just need a good game mode and Freesync/VRR for games. OLED is still fairly new, so you might want to wait and see what develops.
Since you are specifically mentioning Sony, I assume you are talking about motion smoothing and frame interpolation, where they do fare much better than other companies. But you need to remember that a lot of people don't like this stuff at all. I would personally never turn it on, even if my LG did it as well as Sony. So it's a bit much to imply that you can't watch movies on an LG :)
I'm not going to watch film content studder during pans. Sony handles it properly without soap opera effect, LG does not (without other artifacts).

:) Yes. You can fix the stutter, but you end up with crazy edges in action scenes. That looks bad, too.

Tried one. Didn't like it. Took it back.
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Konsolkongen
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Konsolkongen »

orange808 wrote:
I'm not going to watch film content studder during pans. Sony handles it properly without soap opera effect, LG does not (without other artifacts).

:) Yes. You can fix the stutter, but you end up with crazy edges in action scenes. That looks bad, too.

Tried one. Didn't like it. Took it back.

LG handles it correctly according to professional reviewers like HDTVtest.

https://youtu.be/jq5Bh2NjiBg?t=286
(He has reported the same for every LG OLED as long as I can remember.)

This is how it's supposed to look as the framerate is quite low in movies. It's fine that you want the TV to alter your content to make it look smoother. But for many this is a nonissue and there's nothing wrong with the way the TV handles this.
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bobrocks95
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by bobrocks95 »

Pans don't look good in a movie theater either if you look for it...
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geiger9
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by geiger9 »

Thanks everyone for your replies. I want to move away from CRTs as I don't have the time or education to repair them and my two good sets are on the way out. The local market has dried up in the past year as well. I'll continue researching the OSSC because it sounds very promising. If I can't perform consecutive hyper knees in Double Dragon II NES though, I'll toss it :P
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orange808
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by orange808 »

Konsolkongen wrote:
orange808 wrote:
I'm not going to watch film content studder during pans. Sony handles it properly without soap opera effect, LG does not (without other artifacts).

:) Yes. You can fix the stutter, but you end up with crazy edges in action scenes. That looks bad, too.

Tried one. Didn't like it. Took it back.

LG handles it correctly according to professional reviewers like HDTVtest.

https://youtu.be/jq5Bh2NjiBg?t=286
(He has reported the same for every LG OLED as long as I can remember.)

This is how it's supposed to look as the framerate is quite low in movies. It's fine that you want the TV to alter your content to make it look smoother. But for many this is a nonissue and there's nothing wrong with the way the TV handles this.
I'm glad you like your tv. :)
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Konsolkongen
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Konsolkongen »

I'm glad I got to validate my possession :)
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Fudoh
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Fudoh »

2020 and 24p playback still isn't as easy as people want it to be. On some new TVs shown at CES we now get a "filmmaker's mode" in which motion interpolation is completely disabled (as it switching it off was so hard before). After 15 years of promoting interframe creation, this seems such a weird move and I can only attribute this to strong lobbying from companies that simply can't get it done properly.

Point is, if you try to show 24p without motion interpolation you need still need to double it to either 48 or 72Hz internally and this basically causes the same problems with ghosting as 30fps video game content does on various displays. In other words, it's certainly not perfect either. Combined with the near-instant refresh of OLED panels "raw" (as in uninterpolated) 24p gets quite jerky and I personally find it hard to watch, when lots of panning shots are involved.
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by shmupsrocks »

IME motion on a plasma TV is generally amazing.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by maxtherabbit »

shmupsrocks wrote:IME motion on a plasma TV is generally amazing.
yes it is :mrgreen:
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by SpaceFunkyDan »

Sorry for reposting my earlier post, it did not appear straight away as it was waiting for approval,
(I’m a newbie here)

:)

Ive been reading through the large thread and am thinking of getting the VX3211-mh with an OSSC.
Could anyone give me some other monitor suggestions before I pull the trigger, anything released more recently that tops the VX3211-mh?

Im going to use it primarily in Tate.

Thanks :)
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Xyga
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Xyga »

Well there's also the VX3276-mhd-2 which is a variant of the same, only with a slim bezel (warning: more prone to backlight bleed), and an additional input (DP) which can be convenient since the VX3211-mh only has one digital input (HDMI)

Personally I've bought an HDMI switch for the 3211 and I'm happy with that solution.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63585

Things to pay attention to:
- the four VESA mounting holes on the back are not located dead-center, so when you turn the display it is shifted left or right and off-balance (a custom steel plate would fix that, still gotta make one for mine)
- unless you already have a stand that can accomodate a 32" in portrait (those are mostly only found in North-America, not Europe) you may have to somehow find you own DIY solution. Personally I have put a longer pole on the basis of what was a 27" stand.
- even if the VX3211-mh has a sturdy body that makes the panel less prone to backlight bleed, I've read reports that it can still happen like it can with any other IPS monitor anyway. So be careful to order from a store where you can return the monitor and get another unit if you're not satisfied.
- I hope you are aware that since it is an IPS panel it doesn't like the bob-deinterlacing mode from the OSSC, there will be image retention showing after some minutes of flickering, so if you thought of buying that monitor for playing a lot of deinterlaced PS2 games, well it is not a good idea...

PS: and last thing, although it handles everything I throw at it via the OSSC, I don't own a 1-CHIP SNES so I'm not sure that one is alright with that monitor. My 2-CHIP SFC is fine...

PPS: for a different monitor if you are okay with 27" and can spend the money; ViewSonic XG270 :mrgreen:
https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopi ... 998#p45259
(probably extremely good pixel response for a LCD, but I wouldn't expect a top quality panel, I've seen an amz customer complain about heavy backlight bleed)
If you want a VA panel and don't mind a slight curve the ViewSonic VX2758-PC-MH looks ace (VX2758-C-mh variant lacks the 1ms mode), but no VESA, rotation will have to be like with a DIY kick-stand.
Both will have way more uses than just the OSSC, naturally.
More ? wanna try a 4K VA ? then ViewSonic XG3220, expensive tho (saw it as low as 450 once but most often it's 600+)

XPS: and to expand on the topic: https://www.viewsonic.com/us/news/views ... e-software
:P

No, I don't get monies from VS :mrgreen: , it's just that their monitors aren't BS (excellent options and technicity), and most models are fit for both the OSSC and CRT_Emudriver.
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SpaceFunkyDan
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by SpaceFunkyDan »

Xyga wrote:Well there's also the VX3276-mhd-2 which is a variant of the same, only with a slim bezel (warning: more prone to backlight bleed), and an additional input (DP) which can be convenient since the VX3211-mh only has one digital input (HDMI)

Personally I've bought an HDMI switch for the 3211 and I'm happy with that solution.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=63585

Things to pay attention to:
- the four VESA mounting holes on the back are not located dead-center, so when you turn the display it is shifted left or right and off-balance (a custom steel plate would fix that, still gotta make one for mine)
- unless you already have a stand that can accomodate a 32" in portrait (those are mostly only found in North-America, not Europe) you may have to somehow find you own DIY solution. Personally I have put a longer pole on the basis of what was a 27" stand.
- even if the VX3211-mh has a sturdy body that makes the panel less prone to backlight bleed, I've read reports that it can still happen like it can with any other IPS monitor anyway. So be careful to order from a store where you can return the monitor and get another unit if you're not satisfied.
- I hope you are aware that since it is an IPS panel it doesn't like the bob-deinterlacing mode from the OSSC, there will be image retention showing after some minutes of flickering, so if you thought of buying that monitor for playing a lot of deinterlaced PS2 games, well it is not a good idea...

PS: and last thing, although it handles everything I throw at it via the OSSC, I don't own a 1-CHIP SNES so I'm not sure that one is alright with that monitor. My 2-CHIP SFC is fine...

PPS: for a different monitor if you are okay with 27" and can spend the money; ViewSonic XG270 :mrgreen:
https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopi ... 998#p45259
(probably extremely good pixel response for a LCD, but I wouldn't expect a top quality panel, I've seen an amz customer complain about heavy backlight bleed)
If you want a VA panel and don't mind a slight curve the ViewSonic VX2758-PC-MH looks ace (VX2758-C-mh variant lacks the 1ms mode), but no VESA, rotation will have to be like with a DIY kick-stand.
Both will have way more uses than just the OSSC, naturally.
More ? wanna try a 4K VA ? then ViewSonic XG3220, expensive tho (saw it as low as 450 once but most often it's 600+)

XPS: and to expand on the topic: https://www.viewsonic.com/us/news/views ... e-software
:P

No, I don't get monies from VS :mrgreen: , it's just that their monitors aren't BS (excellent options and technicity), and most models are fit for both the OSSC and CRT_Emudriver.
Thank you so much for the kind rescponce, so helpful. Most appreciated.
Its a shame rotation isnt easier, I dont have a vesa-mount, so would need one.
Any other non viewsonic monitors you could recommend? Im not overly fussed about the curves.

I noticed Viewsonic has shown off a 55 inch OLED 120hz at CES...

Oh and it seems Viewsonics website is down, I cant access it from here...
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Xyga
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Xyga »

I don't know which location you are but for me viewsonic.com is up in several countries I've checked.

Honestly I don't care bout options from other brands, ViewSonic just make ideal monitors for the OSSC for unique technical reasons i'm pretty sure I won't find elsewhere together period.

The good aspect ratio and overscan controls that don't leave you down and are always accessible, the good scaling and sharpening/smoothing, the great compatibility for practically all modes and sources AFAIK, including 1:1 1080p/1200p for x5 mode.

Every option fits the use and works, there's no way Samsung, LG, ACER, Dell, HP, AOC, ASUS, Iiyama etc etc get all that right in a single monitor. Not even higher end EIZO or NEC group all of that in a single monitor.

Basically the OSSC has specific requirements that a majority of ViewSonic monitors happen to fulfill (gotta check the official User Guides to be make tho). Sure, many other monitors of all brand names will work with the OSSC too, but not to that extent with all those convenient options.

And the compatibility with CRT_Emudriver for GroovyMAME is the icing on the cake.

For me it's between choosing a ViewSonic monitor, or an LG OLED, nothing else matters until better stuff comes (like a VS OLED indeed ^^)
The world of displays is like that, you'll have a single series of monitors or TVs that will do everything better than a hundred other options for your specific needs, and that is how it will remain for maybe many years.
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by FlyingFinn »

I am looking into buying one monitor for 1440p/4K and retro gaming.
Main challenge is to find suitable monitors that support 480i/576i.

So far, I know only one: dell u2719d (and related dell models)

Are there other 1440p/4K monitors that support interlaced signals?
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by fandangos »

Not sure if this was asked before but, would be possible for the ossc to frame double so it can make 240p RGBS compatible with RGBHV PC CRT monitors?

Scan doubling is nice to have and it looks good converting 320x240 to 640x480.
But when looking at emulators outputing super resolutions like 1920x240 at 120hz to a high end pc crt monitor is breathtaking.
The picture quality is amazing and pc crts are easy to find.

Would be possible for 320x240p at 120hz with the ossc? Or would that require a frame buffer to hold the previews frame?
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

fandangos wrote:Not sure if this was asked before but, would be possible for the ossc to frame double so it can make 240p RGBS compatible with RGBHV PC CRT monitors?

Scan doubling is nice to have and it looks good converting 320x240 to 640x480.
But when looking at emulators outputing super resolutions like 1920x240 at 120hz to a high end pc crt monitor is breathtaking.
The picture quality is amazing and pc crts are easy to find.

Would be possible for 320x240p at 120hz with the ossc? Or would that require a frame buffer to hold the previews frame?
Not possible, because doing so would require a framebuffer, as you mentioned. You would have to feed it a 120Hz source in order to have it output at 120Hz; and I believe you'd be limited to a lower output resolution, otherwise you'd exceed the maximum bandwidth of the HDMI TX chip (and/or the FPGA's resources).

Additionally, if you want 1920x240 output, I think that would also require a firmware change in order to add an output mode that would allow for horizontal pixel doubling but not vertical.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by maxtherabbit »

nmalinoski wrote:
fandangos wrote:Not sure if this was asked before but, would be possible for the ossc to frame double so it can make 240p RGBS compatible with RGBHV PC CRT monitors?

Scan doubling is nice to have and it looks good converting 320x240 to 640x480.
But when looking at emulators outputing super resolutions like 1920x240 at 120hz to a high end pc crt monitor is breathtaking.
The picture quality is amazing and pc crts are easy to find.

Would be possible for 320x240p at 120hz with the ossc? Or would that require a frame buffer to hold the previews frame?
Not possible, because doing so would require a framebuffer, as you mentioned. You would have to feed it a 120Hz source in order to have it output at 120Hz; and I believe you'd be limited to a lower output resolution, otherwise you'd exceed the maximum bandwidth of the HDMI TX chip (and/or the FPGA's resources).

Additionally, if you want 1920x240 output, I think that would also require a firmware change in order to add an output mode that would allow for horizontal pixel doubling but not vertical.
the horizontal pixel count isn't the salient bit here, it's the frame rate

a 31kHz CRT won't sync to 240p60, but it will sync to 240p120
XtraSmiley
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by XtraSmiley »

Hey guys the OSSC still rocks, but two questions.

1. Where can I find upcoming FW development on the OSSC, as in what features are being worked on for future release (if any)? Here?

2. Is there ANY solution for medium-res games to be displayed on LCD (or CRT TVs)? I have a Sega Multi-System 24, and no way to currently display it.

Thanks!
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Harrumph
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Harrumph »

1. Nothing specific on the list right now, but I do think the interlace offset has been in the pipeline for some time. http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... nd_roadmap

2. If you by medium res mean ca 23-25kHz/384-400p, then OSSC already accepts it. It can linedouble it to 1024x768 (or similar resolution, as adjusted by h. & v. active). Whether you have a compatible display is another matter. http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... Output_opt.

EDIT: Pardon, I see you made a thread at VGP also last year, so you are already aware of the above, and I assume none of the tips offered worked then. In any case, if OSSC shows green light, then it can handle the input, it's just that your display cannot handle the output. Not much to do else than try other display or a dedicated scaler.
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by RGB0b »

Is there a way to do a "factory reset"? I've hit "Reset Settings" under the option menu and all the profiles I loaded are still there. I've also tried re-loading the firmware and that doesn't clear the old profiles either.

EDIT: I was able to create a new profile file via the profile website and import that into the OSSC successfully. That seemed to clear all my old settings, but I was hoping for an easy "pushbutton" way to do it.
Off topic - This website is amazing. Thanks SO MUCH to anyone involved in it: http://pbnl.byethost7.com/ossc/profiles/
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

retrorgb wrote:Is there a way to do a "factory reset"? I've hit "Reset Settings" under the option menu and all the profiles I loaded are still there. I've also tried re-loading the firmware and that doesn't clear the old profiles either.

EDIT: I was able to create a new profile file via the profile website and import that into the OSSC successfully. That seemed to clear all my old settings, but I was hoping for an easy "pushbutton" way to do it.
Off topic - This website is amazing. Thanks SO MUCH to anyone involved in it: http://pbnl.byethost7.com/ossc/profiles/
"Reset Settings" only affects the current profile, so I think you would then have to save in order to overwrite the old/bad profile, otherwise the reset won't survive a power cycle.

If there's a factory reset function, it's not in the manual; the closest thing to a factory reset right now I think you can get is to flash a firmware <0.84 (added settings versioning to avoid wiping everything during a firmware update) and >=0.74 (support for >2GB SD cards), then install the new firmware. Next-closest thing would be similar to what you did; generate a profiles.bin from the web app with all profiles enabled and set to defaults, then use the import settings function (>=0.82).

I don't think any of these are ideal for completely resetting all settings; I recommend requesting an actual factory reset function in the OSSC Feature Requests forum on VGP; something that can wipe all settings after a double confirmation.
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by XtraSmiley »

Harrumph wrote:1. Nothing specific on the list right now, but I do think the interlace offset has been in the pipeline for some time. http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... nd_roadmap

2. If you by medium res mean ca 23-25kHz/384-400p, then OSSC already accepts it. It can linedouble it to 1024x768 (or similar resolution, as adjusted by h. & v. active). Whether you have a compatible display is another matter. http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... Output_opt.

EDIT: Pardon, I see you made a thread at VGP also last year, so you are already aware of the above, and I assume none of the tips offered worked then. In any case, if OSSC shows green light, then it can handle the input, it's just that your display cannot handle the output. Not much to do else than try other display or a dedicated scaler.
Thank you so much for the answers. The link to the road map is perfect and yes I forgot about last year! I think my display was at fault, so as long as the OSSC works, it's done it's job!
RGB0b
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by RGB0b »

nmalinoski wrote:
retrorgb wrote:Is there a way to do a "factory reset"? I've hit "Reset Settings" under the option menu and all the profiles I loaded are still there. I've also tried re-loading the firmware and that doesn't clear the old profiles either.

EDIT: I was able to create a new profile file via the profile website and import that into the OSSC successfully. That seemed to clear all my old settings, but I was hoping for an easy "pushbutton" way to do it.
Off topic - This website is amazing. Thanks SO MUCH to anyone involved in it: http://pbnl.byethost7.com/ossc/profiles/
"Reset Settings" only affects the current profile, so I think you would then have to save in order to overwrite the old/bad profile, otherwise the reset won't survive a power cycle.

If there's a factory reset function, it's not in the manual; the closest thing to a factory reset right now I think you can get is to flash a firmware <0.84 (added settings versioning to avoid wiping everything during a firmware update) and >=0.74 (support for >2GB SD cards), then install the new firmware. Next-closest thing would be similar to what you did; generate a profiles.bin from the web app with all profiles enabled and set to defaults, then use the import settings function (>=0.82).

I don't think any of these are ideal for completely resetting all settings; I recommend requesting an actual factory reset function in the OSSC Feature Requests forum on VGP; something that can wipe all settings after a double confirmation.
Cool, thank you.
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

From marqs in the Retro A1 Scaler thread:
marqs wrote:OSSC's refresh rate information on the main screen is based on measurement data from video ADC which is not always accurate. FPGA provides an accurate measurement which can be checked from info screen (divide 27000000 by the reported number to get Hz).
If the FPGA is accurate, what's the likelihood of the refresh rate source for the main screen being switched from the video ADC to the FPGA?
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marqs
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by marqs »

A new OSSC model is in works: OSSC Pro
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Powerman293 »

LMAO, I just bought an OSSC and now there's a pro version coming out.
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Shelcoof »

Powerman293 wrote:LMAO, I just bought an OSSC and now there's a pro version coming out.
Original is still a good piece of kit :wink:
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