shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:03 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5392 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:41 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1533
Location: Denmark
I was wondering, is there a reason why Sampling Phase is not a setting under Advanced Timing for each resolution? For GameCube (component) the Phase needed for proper 480p and 320x240 are very different (337 and 202), meaning that you will have to adjust this every time the resolution changes.

Wouldn't it make more sense to be able to set this for each resolution, instead of having to save and load multiple profiles for each consoles?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:35 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 479
Location: Germany
Oh yes, I was wondering that too.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:36 am 



Joined: 30 Mar 2018
Posts: 1
From what I've gathered the OSSC needs more current than what is typically available on a standard USB port, so an external PSU is recomended.

But what about USB Y cables?

Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:10 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 189
citrus3000psi wrote:
I've figured someone would have developed a good composite / SVideo to RGB/YPbPr thingy for the OSSC by now. I'm tried of waiting and just ordered an eval board with the the ADV7128A and AVD7391. After I get that working the way I want it to, I'll design a board that fits into a scart plug and then has composite/s-video jacks.


Nice. Will you be adding an adjustable hue for NTSC sources?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:47 am 


User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2018
Posts: 32
Hi paulb_nl.
Why is it so important to you adding a Hue control for the decoders?
Hue control was important for very long NTSC runs where the color signal deteriorated, so TVs had an option to fix that.
I don't think the hue control was much relevant for 5 feet of wire from Console to TV.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:16 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 2932
Location: UK
On the Transcoder front we've already spoken with Mike regarding the RetroTINK-2X and all being well we will be helping him bring that to market. I've given up hope on the company I contacted in the USA they seem to have given up on getting a working transcoder for us.

Quote:
There's this thing I found on eBay. I wonder if someone could buy it and report results.


Reviewed here:- https://www.videogameperfection.com/201 ... er-review/
_________________
https://www.evolvehq.com/players/buckoa51
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:24 pm 



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 5
paulb_nl wrote:
EthicalShooter wrote:
For instance, with line triple, it could put 160 black pixels before and after each line of information, bringing the resolution up to 1280×720 and massively increasing compatibility.


The OSSC already puts padding next to the image to output 1280x720 in lineX3 Generic 4:3.

Huh, so it's just timing? I thought it wasn't that because why would it work in 480p then?

Still would be nice to have an extra padding option just for cases like me to get line 4x with 1440 horizontal resolution in the correct aspect ratio

BuckoA51 wrote:
Quote:
There's this thing I found on eBay. I wonder if someone could buy it and report results.


Reviewed here:- https://www.videogameperfection.com/201 ... er-review/


Looking at the comments, it seems that the system you tried has a weird S-Video signal. Maybe try it with, say, an NTSC console other than (S)NES?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:52 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 2040
Location: Kentucky
EthicalShooter wrote:
Looking at the comments, it seems that the system you tried has a weird S-Video signal. Maybe try it with, say, an NTSC console other than (S)NES?


Only weird in the sense that it's PAL (288p). As Bucko said in the comments he didn't have any NTSC systems to test, and there was also another guy who tried a N64, 3DO, Commodore 64, 7800, Colecovision, Intellivision, and a Magnovox Odyssey2.

Maybe someone can check it out for NTSC consoles but it doesn't seem promising.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:45 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 514
Location: Finland
EthicalShooter wrote:
I have an idea for a feature.

I know it’s impossible to increase vertical resolution without a framebuffer, but it should be 100% possible to add blank pixels to the left and right of the image with the linebuffer.

For instance, with line triple, it could put 160 black pixels before and after each line of information, bringing the resolution up to 1280×720 and massively increasing compatibility.

I’m using a 1080p monitor that supports any resolution up to a little over its native, but (with the exception of 720×480) the image is stretched to fit the monitor and can only be set to 4:3 if the resolution is 4:3, so I had to decrease the horizontal resolution of 480i/480p sampling/output to 1280 pixels as opposed to 1440. If there were a padding option, I could simply pad the image to keep its aspect ratio intact at 1440×960.
To decouple output (total) line width from sampling rate you'd need a separate clock signal which is both highly configurable and accurate. Add a couple dozen extra line buffers and you could then decouple vertical as well - which is what I'll be doing with cps2_digiav project in near future. Line3x generic 4:3 mode on ossc is a bit of an exception as it uses fixed (4/3)*3*Fs = 4*Fs for output, but in general you'd need a dedicated clock generator.
Konsolkongen wrote:
I was wondering, is there a reason why Sampling Phase is not a setting under Advanced Timing for each resolution? For GameCube (component) the Phase needed for proper 480p and 320x240 are very different (337 and 202), meaning that you will have to adjust this every time the resolution changes.

Wouldn't it make more sense to be able to set this for each resolution, instead of having to save and load multiple profiles for each consoles?
It's a leftover from a time when you needed to adjust phase each time (even with same console and mode) when using an optimized mode due to a bug in the digitizer chip. Now that a workaround has been in place for a while, it'd certainly make sense to move that as part of a preset mode. The optimal value would still be valid only with a single console and depend on other sync&sampling settings, though.

BuckoA51 wrote:
On the Transcoder front we've already spoken with Mike regarding the RetroTINK-2X and all being well we will be helping him bring that to market. I've given up hope on the company I contacted in the USA they seem to have given up on getting a working transcoder for us.

Quote:
There's this thing I found on eBay. I wonder if someone could buy it and report results.

Reviewed here:- https://www.videogameperfection.com/201 ... er-review/
If you still have that, could you open the case and check which video IC(s) are inside? If people are going to prototype with composite/s-video decoder ICs, it'd great if there was a list of tested chips to avoid wasting time with e.g. ones that don't properly support 240p.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:39 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 189
James-F wrote:
Why is it so important to you adding a Hue control for the decoders?


Mainly for the NTSC NES. I prefer to use composite video for NES and I like to be able to tweak the colors. Everyone had their Hue set differently and want different colors for NES as you can see with all the different color palettes :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:52 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 688
citrus3000psi wrote:
I've figured someone would have developed a good composite / SVideo to RGB/YPbPr thingy for the OSSC by now. I'm tried of waiting and just ordered an eval board with the the ADV7128A and AVD7391. After I get that working the way I want it to, I'll design a board that fits into a scart plug and then has composite/s-video jacks.


Something like that would be exciting for more than video games.

With the right comb filter, a decoder solution could also catch the attention of video and LD fans.

PS
+1 on hue control
_________________
We apologize for the inconvenience


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:38 am 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 2932
Location: UK
Quote:
If you still have that, could you open the case and check which video IC(s) are inside? If people are going to prototype with composite/s-video decoder ICs, it'd great if there was a list of tested chips to avoid wasting time with e.g. ones that don't properly support 240p.


I returned it I'm afraid.
_________________
https://www.evolvehq.com/players/buckoa51
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:20 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 251
marqs wrote:
It's a leftover from a time when you needed to adjust phase each time (even with same console and mode) when using an optimized mode due to a bug in the digitizer chip. Now that a workaround has been in place for a while, it'd certainly make sense to move that as part of a preset mode. The optimal value would still be valid only with a single console and depend on other sync&sampling settings, though.


May I ask what the workaround is? I think I have the same / a similar problem on gbs-control.
Thanks :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:03 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 514
Location: Finland
rama wrote:
marqs wrote:
It's a leftover from a time when you needed to adjust phase each time (even with same console and mode) when using an optimized mode due to a bug in the digitizer chip. Now that a workaround has been in place for a while, it'd certainly make sense to move that as part of a preset mode. The optimal value would still be valid only with a single console and depend on other sync&sampling settings, though.


May I ask what the workaround is? I think I have the same / a similar problem on gbs-control.
Thanks :)
With TVP7002 you had to disable internal oversampling (aka HPLL2x) since apparently the follow-up division did not have fixed alignment, resulting to selected sampling phase randomly being off by 180deg.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:38 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 251
Great, that should be easy to test. Thanks :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:00 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1007
Location: Toronto, Canada
I have a strange audio problem with the OSSC and hoping someone can suggest a fix.

When the games play, the audio and video is amazing. But when I pause the game, the noise level starts going up! Initially from silent to a finally noticeable hum. I unpause/pause the game, and it cycles - silent and then slowly cycles up. I have verified that all audio processing options on the TV are disabled.

The only "fix" I found thus far is firmware 0.80. In the Audio options I set pre-ADC gain to -6dB and it seems to stop doing this (or maybe I just don't notice it because of the much lower volume).

Thoughts?

TV: Samsung UN55J6300 - works great in 5X mode


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:02 am 


User avatar

Joined: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 254
Feature Request:

How hard would it be to implement an option to make the video output be rotated 180 degrees? (essentially flipping it upside down)

This will probably sound strange, but here's my reasoning: I'm buying a TV wallmount that lets me rotate to portrait mode for games with a TATE option. The problem is that it only rotates to portrait mode in one direction and the orientation required can vary by game. (I might have this swapped, as I'm going off of memory) For instance, I've played some Saturn games that support TATE and it needs you to rotate the screen the screen left, but the Namco Museum games on PS1 need you to rotate the screen to the right. I believe modern games/ports usually give you the option of which way to rotate, but with a lot of older games you seem to just be stuck with whatever singular option the developer gave you.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:16 am 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2016
Posts: 688
cr4zymanz0r wrote:
Feature Request:

How hard would it be to implement an option to make the video output be rotated 180 degrees? (essentially flipping it upside down)

This will probably sound strange, but here's my reasoning: I'm buying a TV wallmount that lets me rotate to portrait mode for games with a TATE option. The problem is that it only rotates to portrait mode in one direction and the orientation required can vary by game. (I might have this swapped, as I'm going off of memory) For instance, I've played some Saturn games that support TATE and it needs you to rotate the screen the screen left, but the Namco Museum games on PS1 need you to rotate the screen to the right. I believe modern games/ports usually give you the option of which way to rotate, but with a lot of older games you seem to just be stuck with whatever singular option the developer gave you.


You would need a full frame buffer for that. The OSSC doesn't have the resources to do it.
_________________
We apologize for the inconvenience


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:38 am 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 2932
Location: UK
leonk wrote:
I have a strange audio problem with the OSSC and hoping someone can suggest a fix.

When the games play, the audio and video is amazing. But when I pause the game, the noise level starts going up! Initially from silent to a finally noticeable hum. I unpause/pause the game, and it cycles - silent and then slowly cycles up. I have verified that all audio processing options on the TV are disabled.

The only "fix" I found thus far is firmware 0.80. In the Audio options I set pre-ADC gain to -6dB and it seems to stop doing this (or maybe I just don't notice it because of the much lower volume).

Thoughts?

TV: Samsung UN55J6300 - works great in 5X mode


I had this issue briefly with my setup, turns out one of the ground connections had come out of one of the audio connectors on the Extron Crosspoint (really hate those Phoenix connectors tbh).
_________________
https://www.evolvehq.com/players/buckoa51
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:20 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 254
BuckoA51 wrote:
I had this issue briefly with my setup, turns out one of the ground connections had come out of one of the audio connectors on the Extron Crosspoint (really hate those Phoenix connectors tbh).

You gotta get the ones with the tails. I bought a pack of very cheap green ones from AliExpress, and they're pretty garbage; they're too wide by like half a millimeter to fit side-by-side, and they have zero support for the cabling, so the cables easily get yanked out of the terminals.

The Extron ones that come with the Crosspoints, however, have tails on them with slits for zip ties, so you can screw down the cable leads, then secure the cable to the connector so they don't get yanked loose.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:44 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2018
Posts: 32
Following the discussion from here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43689&start=600

The 1Chip SNES outputs slightly hotter signal of 0.8V instead 0.7V and as a result the brighter shades are slightly clipped in the digitization stage of the OSSC (and Framemeister).

@borti4938, marqs.
Will it be possible to add a Coarse Gain/Offset (page 12, 38 datasheet) which scales 0.5Vpp-2.0Vpp before ADC to 10bit of the OSSC?
Currently the OSSC has the Fine Gain/Offset controls which are Post ADC, while all Coarse parameters are Pre ADC and missing from the OSSC.
I think the Pre (coarse) ADC controls are much more important, than the Post (fine) controls that can be done on the LCD anyway.
It will be really nice not having to mod a stock 1Chip or any other slightly hotter console with the OSSC once the Pre ADC Gain/Offset controls are implemented. :wink:
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tvp7002.pdf


Last edited by James-F on Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:10 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 251
I think the brightness information is already lost in too bright 1Chip consoles.
But the other way around is very useful: Many consoles don't reach 0.7Vpp.
I have 3 Chip SNES consoles here that barely go above 0.6Vpp.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:36 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2018
Posts: 32
rama wrote:
I think the brightness information is already lost in too bright 1Chip consoles.

Not true, if it was the case, no 1.2k or 750 resistor mod would helped the 1chip, but it does; The S-RGB encoder doesn't clip the signal.
The clipping most certainly occurs in the digitization stage of the OSSC or the Framemeister.
Adding the Pre ADC Gain controls to the OSSC will fix that without modifying the 1chip, since the TVP7002 can accept 2.0vPP without clipping.

Indeed it will be very handy too with consoles that are lower than spec, but that can be fixed with Post gain controls since nothing is lost.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:04 pm 



Joined: 18 Sep 2012
Posts: 92
I remember reading the OSSC won't work with Sony 4k XBR-65x905E. Is that correct?

Besides the lag do you guys considere it to be sharper than a the framemeister?
I was watching the my life in gaming videos with comparison but it seems sharper in a few screenshots and not others.
_________________
CapivaraGamer
http://capivaragamer.com.br


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:33 pm 



Joined: 12 Aug 2017
Posts: 215
fandangos wrote:
Besides the lag do you guys considere it to be sharper than a the framemeister?
I was watching the my life in gaming videos with comparison but it seems sharper in a few screenshots and not others.


The Framemeister has a few defects/design choices that can introduce blurriness or other artifacts not present with the OSSC, i.e. some softness with 480p, chroma subsampling during image processing, some noise in the A/D conversion, etc. In that regard, I'd say the OSSC is superior. The other consideration regarding sharpness is, as far as I know, that the Framemeister can always be made to output a 1080p image with integer scaling and nearest neighbor interpolation. Depending on your display, source & settings the OSSC will output a lower resolution like 720p or 960p, leaving more of the scaling work to your display or other scalers down the chain. Most displays will go for a softer look compared to the Framemeister's scaling. That's why sometimes the OSSC looks softer than the Framemeister in the MLIG videos. In Line5x mode the OSSC will likely be sharper than the Framemeister, better A/D, better chroma handling, higher output resolution etc., but it might look softer in 960/720p, depending on your display.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:52 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 618
Location: Italy
I'd say if you don't need proper deinterlacing or s-video/composite inputs don't even bother with the FM today.

Only disclaimer is OSSC's 4x/5x compatibility issue with some displays.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:07 pm 



Joined: 18 Sep 2012
Posts: 92
ASDR wrote:
fandangos wrote:
Besides the lag do you guys considere it to be sharper than a the framemeister?
I was watching the my life in gaming videos with comparison but it seems sharper in a few screenshots and not others.


The Framemeister has a few defects/design choices that can introduce blurriness or other artifacts not present with the OSSC, i.e. some softness with 480p, chroma subsampling during image processing, some noise in the A/D conversion, etc. In that regard, I'd say the OSSC is superior. The other consideration regarding sharpness is, as far as I know, that the Framemeister can always be made to output a 1080p image with integer scaling and nearest neighbor interpolation. Depending on your display, source & settings the OSSC will output a lower resolution like 720p or 960p, leaving more of the scaling work to your display or other scalers down the chain. Most displays will go for a softer look compared to the Framemeister's scaling. That's why sometimes the OSSC looks softer than the Framemeister in the MLIG videos. In Line5x mode the OSSC will likely be sharper than the Framemeister, better A/D, better chroma handling, higher output resolution etc., but it might look softer in 960/720p, depending on your display.


Thanks for the in depth explanation. This clear a few things.
But the MLIG they use a capture card so in relation to a raw image being captured the ossc seems sharper in most cases. Also like in Legend of Zelda A Link to The Past trade mark and year date part you can see a red shadow on the letters wit the FM, while the OSSC seems to be way brighter and don't have those artifacts.

I actually see those red shadows on my CRT TV.

The thing is, I mainly play on my CRT tvs and monitors (PVM). But I recently got a hi-def NES and I was blown away by how crips and awesome the picture looked.
But I always felt disappointed with the FM I own even with FBX profiles. The image is too soft and too dark when using scanlines.

The main reason I was considering the OSSC is because when playing with friends on the couch the big screen is better but I wanted a similar experience compared to the hi def nes.
But today I own a Sony 65 XBR 905A and I'm going to upgrade to a 905E for HDR movie content.
That's why I'm wondering about compatibility also.
_________________
CapivaraGamer
http://capivaragamer.com.br


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:51 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 2932
Location: UK
Anyone using a VP50 (not 50 pro) with their OSSC? Can you confirm that 480pX2 mode works when using the settings listed here? https://www.videogameperfection.com/201 ... 2-changer/ (under "A more compatible 480px2").

Thanks.
_________________
https://www.evolvehq.com/players/buckoa51
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:07 am 


User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1895
Location: DFW area, Texas
fandangos wrote:
ASDR wrote:
fandangos wrote:
Besides the lag do you guys considere it to be sharper than a the framemeister?
I was watching the my life in gaming videos with comparison but it seems sharper in a few screenshots and not others.


The Framemeister has a few defects/design choices that can introduce blurriness or other artifacts not present with the OSSC, i.e. some softness with 480p, chroma subsampling during image processing, some noise in the A/D conversion, etc. In that regard, I'd say the OSSC is superior. The other consideration regarding sharpness is, as far as I know, that the Framemeister can always be made to output a 1080p image with integer scaling and nearest neighbor interpolation. Depending on your display, source & settings the OSSC will output a lower resolution like 720p or 960p, leaving more of the scaling work to your display or other scalers down the chain. Most displays will go for a softer look compared to the Framemeister's scaling. That's why sometimes the OSSC looks softer than the Framemeister in the MLIG videos. In Line5x mode the OSSC will likely be sharper than the Framemeister, better A/D, better chroma handling, higher output resolution etc., but it might look softer in 960/720p, depending on your display.


Thanks for the in depth explanation. This clear a few things.
But the MLIG they use a capture card so in relation to a raw image being captured the ossc seems sharper in most cases. Also like in Legend of Zelda A Link to The Past trade mark and year date part you can see a red shadow on the letters wit the FM, while the OSSC seems to be way brighter and don't have those artifacts.

I actually see those red shadows on my CRT TV.

The thing is, I mainly play on my CRT tvs and monitors (PVM). But I recently got a hi-def NES and I was blown away by how crips and awesome the picture looked.
But I always felt disappointed with the FM I own even with FBX profiles. The image is too soft and too dark when using scanlines.

The main reason I was considering the OSSC is because when playing with friends on the couch the big screen is better but I wanted a similar experience compared to the hi def nes.
But today I own a Sony 65 XBR 905A and I'm going to upgrade to a 905E for HDR movie content.
That's why I'm wondering about compatibility also.



When people ask me the pros and cons of the FM versus the OSSC, here's what I tell them:

Framemeister:

1. Can ONLY integer scale on the vertical axis (and only with expert knowledge on how to dial it in). Horizontal is always interpolated on analog sources, and it does so in a way similar to bilinear filtering so there's no 'sizzle' in side scrolling. This is advantageous for CRT AR correction.

2. Can zoom to what ever size you want. So if you have a small active graphic window like in the case of Game Boy, you can zoom that sucker as large as you want.

3. Seems to work well with just about any display or capture device.

4. Has noise issues (solid colors look crappy).

5. Adds in something like 2 frames of lag.

6. Can't do sharp 480p scaling as it adds in a dithered edge effect (false contours).

7. RGB HDMI output processing is biased towards green (YPbPr has better balance)

8. Default color and brightness settings are WAY off for component input (around 37 brightness and 22 saturation are closer to correct).

9. Has superior features for deinterlacing over the OSSC.

10. Has two HDMI inputs that you can actually scale/zoom and output to a compatible footprint output (thus allowing you to use it as a converter for OSSC incompatibility issues, provided you have expert knowledge on how to scale to a perfect integer of the source HDMI coming from the OSSC).

11. Has a superior profile saving a loading system over the OSSC.

12. Maximum possible picture quality is inferior to the OSSC.

13. Boarder masking can be done (again with expert knowledge), though the top line of graphics are pinched while the bottom line is stretched. Can mess with your OCD.

14. Will often lock up in a black screen when adjusting Visual_Set dimensions. This can be corrected by waiting 10 seconds and pressing the corresponding input button to bring the picture back after another 5 seconds.

15. Completely lacks LPF control, causing consoles that need it externally to have jail bars (i.e. some revisions of the Sega Saturn).


OSSC:

1. Can be integer scaled from 1 to 5x for 240p sources.

2. Does not allow for zooming beyond 5x.

3. Has zero lag.

4. Had almost zero noise (requires lossless 4:4:4 capture to even spot any noise at all).

5. Optimal timing allows for 'digital-perfect' picture quality, but difficult to dial in without using a chart or proper test patterns.

6. Control over LPF (critical for some Saturn consoles that need external LPF).

7. Perfect control over RGB color bias (gain settings).

8. Inferior features for deinterlacing.

9. Much easier to use masking system.

10. 256 square pixel mode has off-center masking that pinches one side of the active 256 window. Can be corrected by increasing the active area to 257 and re-centering, but this causes the output to be an abnormal resolution that can sometimes randomly change on game boot-up.

11. Inferior profile system compared to the Framemeister.

12. Superior menu system using a native back-lit LCD screen.

13. Does not have HDMI input for scaling low res HDMI sources.

14. Component input for the RCA jacks are incorrectly arranged (has them in Blue-Green-Red order when it should be Green-Blue-Red).

15. Signal output is often incompatible with a lot of displays beyond 480p output.


-FBX
_________________
Framemeister profiles: http://www.firebrandx.com/framemeisterprofiles.html

NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


Last edited by FBX on Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:24 pm 



Joined: 18 Sep 2014
Posts: 97
BuckoA51 wrote:
Anyone using a VP50 (not 50 pro) with their OSSC? Can you confirm that 480pX2 mode works when using the settings listed here? https://www.videogameperfection.com/201 ... 2-changer/ (under "A more compatible 480px2").

Thanks.

I will give it a go with a PS2 and report back. However I do quite like the 'dated, ringing-prone scaling' of the VP50 anyway.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5392 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 175, 176, 177, 178, 179, 180  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group