OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

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nmalinoski
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

MidOrFeed2015 wrote:idk at 60.08hz it is fine for me, no sync issues and feels very smooth without shortstops. the jitter mod seems to be an unnecessarily autistic solution
That the vertical refresh rate is 60.08Hz is irrelevant; the problem is that the horizontal sync cadence is not 100% consistent across every frame, and you are very lucky that you found/have a display that doesn't trip up on that. If you bought a different display or took your setup to a friend's house, there's a good chance that you'll get unstable sync or or no sync at all.
Marmotta
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Marmotta »

I'm trying to connect to a CMVS using this circuit, but the OSSC is stating there's no sync detected. I hooked it up briefly without any protection to check the MVS is working, which it is. I've checked continuity all over the board, but can't find any issues. I don't have a scope, but there are some low voltage signals on the RGB and sync lines. Any ideas? I don't have any other RGB input devices I could use to see if it's an OSSC-specific issue.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/R8NJ9UQ4
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Lawfer
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Lawfer »

Marmotta wrote:I'm trying to connect to a CMVS using this circuit, but the OSSC is stating there's no sync detected. I hooked it up briefly without any protection to check the MVS is working, which it is. I've checked continuity all over the board, but can't find any issues. I don't have a scope, but there are some low voltage signals on the RGB and sync lines. Any ideas?
Doesn't the MVS have a non-standard refresh rate? Something like 59.1856Hz.
nmalinoski
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by nmalinoski »

Lawfer wrote:
Marmotta wrote:I'm trying to connect to a CMVS using this circuit, but the OSSC is stating there's no sync detected. I hooked it up briefly without any protection to check the MVS is working, which it is. I've checked continuity all over the board, but can't find any issues. I don't have a scope, but there are some low voltage signals on the RGB and sync lines. Any ideas?
Doesn't the MVS have a non-standard refresh rate? Something like 59.1856Hz.
That might prevent the display from syncing, but that shouldn't prevent the OSSC from locking onto sync and displaying the detected video mode on its LCD.
Marmotta
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Marmotta »

Lawfer wrote:
Marmotta wrote:I'm trying to connect to a CMVS using this circuit, but the OSSC is stating there's no sync detected. I hooked it up briefly without any protection to check the MVS is working, which it is. I've checked continuity all over the board, but can't find any issues. I don't have a scope, but there are some low voltage signals on the RGB and sync lines. Any ideas?
Doesn't the MVS have a non-standard refresh rate? Something like 59.1856Hz.
It does, but it works fine when connected directly without any protection from the high(er) voltages of the MVS, which is why I mentioned it - the refresh rate isn't the issue.
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hugo19941994
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by hugo19941994 »

Have you tried tweaking the Hsync tolerance and the H-PLL pre and post coast settings?

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... c_settings
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... tibilities

I was also having issues with sync lock on with my consolized MVS (not a cbox though) and I was going to install that board as well. However it turned out that my issue was because the modder who I bought it from put a 1.5 K resistor on the sync line. I replaced it with a 470ohm one and it started working perfectly. The video was really good so I ended up not installing the RGB board (and now I have 3 bare pcbs laying around).

Also, what cables are you using? That PCB is supposed to be used with cables which have no components inside them, if I remember correctly.
Frank_fjs
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Frank_fjs »

1.5K resistor on the sync line? No wonder it didn't work, that would yield a 0.19V output.
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BuckoA51
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by BuckoA51 »

Anyway, BuckoA51, your links require login, so... :mrgreen:
That's a bug, Flickr are having some issues at the moment, it's fixed now.
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
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Jademalo
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Jademalo »

BuckoA51 wrote:
Anyway, BuckoA51, your links require login, so... :mrgreen:
That's a bug, Flickr are having some issues at the moment, it's fixed now.
Any reason you still use flickr over imgur or dropbox or google photos? I've only ever known them to have issues.
Marmotta
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Marmotta »

hugo19941994 wrote:Have you tried tweaking the Hsync tolerance and the H-PLL pre and post coast settings?

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... c_settings
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... tibilities

I was also having issues with sync lock on with my consolized MVS (not a cbox though) and I was going to install that board as well. However it turned out that my issue was because the modder who I bought it from put a 1.5 K resistor on the sync line. I replaced it with a 470ohm one and it started working perfectly. The video was really good so I ended up not installing the RGB board (and now I have 3 bare pcbs laying around).

Also, what cables are you using? That PCB is supposed to be used with cables which have no components inside them, if I remember correctly.
Tried adjusting the settings and still no luck. I've already ordered some parts from Mouser, in case it was an issue with my soldering and also to try out some different circuits. I'm using the Retro Gaming Cables Mini DIN 8 Packapunch cable, which has no components apart from a 180 ohm resistor on the 5V line for SCART switching.

The image looks fine to me without any additional components at all (although I'm not the fussiest when it comes to image fidelity, at least compared to the average Neo Geo user :roll: ). I'm more concerned about potentially damaging the OSSC by feeding it the raw signals from the MVS.
Voliko
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Voliko »

Very pleased with the new scanline options, been hoping for something like this for a while.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by maxtherabbit »

Has anyone had the opportunity to pull/build paulb-nl's fork and try out the sample rate fine tuning?
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hugo19941994
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by hugo19941994 »

I know that firmware 0.83 that was posted here a week or so ago is not a final image, but I think I've found a small issue. I was using the 320x240 optimized mode (with Firebrandx's settings) with a Japanese Mega Drive 2 which has a triple bypass installed. When outputting with 5x scaling I can see some small artifacts (https://photos.app.goo.gl/8NxKsraUwy1xzhsx7).

If I use 4x scaling mode or firmware 0.82 they dissapear. Has anyone noticed this as well?
SavagePencil
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by SavagePencil »

What size should Xbox (or GC) 480p be resized to when running in 4:3?

In other words, I have a device set to output 480p at 4:3, and my OSSC set with h.active to 720 and samplerate set to 858. What dimensions should the resultant output be?
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Jademalo
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Jademalo »

SavagePencil wrote:What size should Xbox (or GC) 480p be resized to when running in 4:3?

In other words, I have a device set to output 480p at 4:3, and my OSSC set with h.active to 720 and samplerate set to 858. What dimensions should the resultant output be?

For Gamecube, active pixels with those settings is 660, which is the actual output resolution with square pixels. I'd advise you to crop to this point first to prevent the edges getting feathered on the resize.
The dot clock rate means it has a 10:11 PAR, so you need to do (660/11)*10, which is 600x480.
If you'd rather just resize the whole thing then crop (which I don't recommend, but whatever), then the maths is (720/11)*10, which is 656x480.

Gamecube is a little bit weird though, but I won't get into that too much. Read this thread if you're curious - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62790
For all intents and purposes though, the above calculation is correct for what it would have looked like on a CRT.
paulb_nl
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by paulb_nl »

maxtherabbit wrote:Has anyone had the opportunity to pull/build paulb-nl's fork and try out the sample rate fine tuning?
That fine tuning is for those consoles that need a fractional samplerate in optimized mode like N64 and Genesis 320. With that you are able to adjust 1/4th and 1/5th samplerate in 320x240 LineX4 and LineX5 respectively.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by maxtherabbit »

paulb_nl wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:Has anyone had the opportunity to pull/build paulb-nl's fork and try out the sample rate fine tuning?
That fine tuning is for those consoles that need a fractional samplerate in optimized mode like N64 and Genesis 320. With that you are able to adjust 1/4th and 1/5th samplerate in 320x240 LineX4 and LineX5 respectively.
Yeah I know what it's for, and thank you for writing it. Just wondering if it's being tested
SavagePencil
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by SavagePencil »

Jademalo wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:What size should Xbox (or GC) 480p be resized to when running in 4:3?

In other words, I have a device set to output 480p at 4:3, and my OSSC set with h.active to 720 and samplerate set to 858. What dimensions should the resultant output be?

For Gamecube, active pixels with those settings is 660, which is the actual output resolution with square pixels. I'd advise you to crop to this point first to prevent the edges getting feathered on the resize.
The dot clock rate means it has a 10:11 PAR, so you need to do (660/11)*10, which is 600x480.
If you'd rather just resize the whole thing then crop (which I don't recommend, but whatever), then the maths is (720/11)*10, which is 656x480.

Gamecube is a little bit weird though, but I won't get into that too much. Read this thread if you're curious - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62790
For all intents and purposes though, the above calculation is correct for what it would have looked like on a CRT.
Excellent, thank you for the GC values. Does anyone know the correct ones for the original Xbox?
Marmotta
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Marmotta »

Marmotta wrote:I'm trying to connect to a CMVS using this circuit, but the OSSC is stating there's no sync detected. I hooked it up briefly without any protection to check the MVS is working, which it is. I've checked continuity all over the board, but can't find any issues. I don't have a scope, but there are some low voltage signals on the RGB and sync lines. Any ideas? I don't have any other RGB input devices I could use to see if it's an OSSC-specific issue.

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/R8NJ9UQ4
Thought I'd follow this up in case anyone else is having the same issue. After puzzling over what it could be for a while, I found a major and simple flaw in the OSHPark board - the 5V line is shorted to ground on a castellation on the board. I don't know if this was on the original design or is an error in manufacturing by OSHPark.

Image
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Fudoh
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Fudoh »

this is a manufacturing error, BUT I don't see how a missing chip on the PCB's soldering mask would cause a short.
Marmotta
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Marmotta »

Fudoh wrote:this is a manufacturing error, BUT I don't see how a missing chip on the PCB's soldering mask would cause a short.
That area is where I lightly attacked it with a Dremel to fix the short. The 5V solder pad was just about connected to one of the two castellations on the bottom edge, and that area has a ground fill on the other side of the board.
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Jademalo
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Jademalo »

SavagePencil wrote:Excellent, thank you for the GC values. Does anyone know the correct ones for the original Xbox?
Original Xbox is the same, 858/720 with 10:11 PAR.

Do be aware though, 480i from the original xbox is absolutely goddamn awful
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Lawfer
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Lawfer »

Jademalo wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:Excellent, thank you for the GC values. Does anyone know the correct ones for the original Xbox?
Original Xbox is the same, 858/720 with 10:11 PAR.

Do be aware though, 480i from the original xbox is absolutely goddamn awful
480i Component from the Original Xbox is nothing particulary different from 480i of other consoles.
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Jademalo
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Jademalo »

Lawfer wrote:
Jademalo wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:Excellent, thank you for the GC values. Does anyone know the correct ones for the original Xbox?
Original Xbox is the same, 858/720 with 10:11 PAR.

Do be aware though, 480i from the original xbox is absolutely goddamn awful
480i Component from the Original Xbox is nothing particulary different from 480i of other consoles.

480i - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
480p - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

Hard disagree there.
Been doing a lot of testing on this over the last month with a number of different Xboxes, the raw 480i output is absolutely horrible.

These two images were captured with the exact same setup (Xbox->Official Component->OSSC->Vision E1s), and you can see that the output is just dreadful. I have tried every possible bit of configuration available, and there is no solution. That's just what the 480i output looks like.

Not to mention for some reason the 480i output is in limited range. That one confuses me even more, but applying limited->full correction is neccesary to get black and white levels right.
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Fudoh
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Fudoh »

that's not really a valid comparison, since interlaced input into the OSSC upscaled to 960p results in a signal that's hardly comparable to a properly interlaced 480i signal which is upscaled AFTER deinterlacing.
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Jademalo
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Jademalo »

Fudoh wrote:that's not really a valid comparison, since interlaced input into the OSSC upscaled to 960p results in a signal that's hardly comparable to a properly interlaced 480i signal which is upscaled AFTER deinterlacing.
Alright then, have some lovely clean capture shots without any upscaling.

480p - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
480i Discard - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... _Field.png
480i Yadif2x - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
480i Yadif1x - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
480i Yadif2x with correction - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

PDN with each aligned - https://www.dropbox.com/s/tbp6u3ua881hw ... s.pdn?dl=0


This is original Xbox, with official component cables. The cables are direct into the OSSC, which is configured for both 480p and 480i with 858 sample rate, 720 hres, and backporch tweaked to get it centred. Both 480p and 480i outputs are set to passthrough. This is then captured directly by the Vision E1S.
The only thing changed between the two is the resolution. The chain is the same.

480p is the straight passthrough, nothing tweaked, captured from the Vision window at exactly 720x480.
480i is the passthrough captured from the vision window at exactly 720x480, with the deinterlacing set to discard in that application.
480i Yadif2x is the vision captured in OBS at 720x480, XRGB. It is then deinterlaced with Yadif2x.
480i Yadif1x is the same as above, but using Yadif instead.
480i Yadif2x with correction is the same as the third image, except I've applied a filter in order to correct the brightness and contrast issues.


I have done extensive testing on this, with all manner of advanced tweaking on both the OSSC and other software. I have also hooked the Xbox up directly to the Vision so as to rule out the OSSC as an issue, and I get exactly the same results.
The actual 480i output of the Xbox is garbage. It's for some reason extremely bright, and extremely low quality. The easiest place to see this is to look at the Unleash text, you can clearly see the ringing on every single letter. Also look to the right of the yellow text in the menu list, you can see a blue shadow artifact. I am 100% confident that this is the actual, accurately captured output.
Considering the 480p output is absolutely fine, I'm also positive it's not an issue with the cables. I've also tested this with an RGB SCART cable, and got the exact same results.
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Fudoh
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Fudoh »

thank you!

I would go as far as to agree that indeed 480i is certainly no alternative for capture or for any use on a progressive display, but on a 480i-only CRT, the XBOX's output signal looks alright. The anti-blur patch for 480i output might make a difference as well, don't you think?

What personally bothers me much more about the XBOX's output is the internal background scaling, which never allows you to get perfect horizontal pixel seperation despite setting the sampling rate just right. FBX went into some detail on this one a while back.
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Lawfer
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Lawfer »

Jademalo wrote:Hard disagree there.
An original xbox version 1.3 plugged with the HD Pack, with high-end RCA to BNC component cables that you can see here: https://tmraudio.com/product/tj-217 (the component cables that Microsoft included together with the HD Pack are apparently of low quality.)

That, plugged on a CRT broadcast monitor and output in 480i is certainly not "absolutely goddamn awful", that is an absolute exaggeration, again it is not that far removed from 480i component that you can get from other consoles, certainly nothing out of the ordinary.
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Jademalo
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Jademalo »

Fudoh wrote:thank you!

I would go as far as to agree that indeed 480i is certainly no alternative for capture or for any use on a progressive display, but on a 480i-only CRT, the XBOX's output signal looks alright. The anti-blur patch for 480i output might make a difference as well, don't you think?

What personally bothers me much more about the XBOX's output is the internal background scaling, which never allows you to get perfect horizontal pixel seperation despite setting the sampling rate just right. FBX went into some detail on this one a while back.
Np, always good to have proper examples =p
Ooh, what anti-blur patch? I'm not familiar with that.

Yeah, the Xbox really isn't great lol. It does look fine on a CRT, but my current goal is to try and get as good a capture as I possibly can out of 480i. I've got a friend who speedruns a 480i only Xbox game, and capturing it well is a nightmare. We modded it as a test to force 480p output the other day, and the difference is insane. The Xbox's 480p output is, while not perfect due to the weird internal scaling of some elements, at least a fairly clean output.

Interestingly, the custom dashboard that I've been using to test (since it has pure black and pure white) is really convenient, since the UNLEASH text and the big X don't have any of the Xbox's weird scaling going on. The black outline around the boxes is also perfectly crisp. It makes confirming 858 as the correct sample rate and dialing in a good sampling phase surprisingly easy.
You can see though just looking at the text that there's a lot of scaling still going on with some elements.

This image from earlier shows that really clearly - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png


Lawfer wrote:
Jademalo wrote:Hard disagree there.
An original xbox version 1.3 plugged with the HD Pack, with high-end RCA to BNC component cables that you can see here: https://tmraudio.com/product/tj-217 (the component cables that Microsoft included together with the HD Pack are apparently of low quality.)

That, plugged on a CRT broadcast monitor and output in 480i is certainly not "absolutely goddamn awful", that is an absolute exaggeration, again it is not that far removed from 480i component that you can get from other consoles, certainly nothing out of the ordinary.
Check the images I've just posted in my larger post above to Fudoh. The 480i output is really, really not good, and has a lot of issues other than being interlaced.

I've been able to get extremely good 480i results from consoles like the Gamecube and Wii, and even the interlaced modes of the N64. Generally you can expect a clean output with 480i, the main issue being obviously the interlacing. The base 480i output of the Xbox is not good, and it's nothing to do with the interlacing. Each horizontal scanline itsself is really bad.
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Lawfer
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Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

Post by Lawfer »

Jademalo wrote:Check the images I've just posted in my larger post above to Fudoh. The 480i output is really, really not good, and has a lot of issues other than being interlaced.

I've been able to get extremely good 480i results from consoles like the Gamecube and Wii, and even the interlaced modes of the N64. Generally you can expect a clean output with 480i, the main issue being obviously the interlacing. The base 480i output of the Xbox is not good, and it's nothing to do with the interlacing. Each horizontal scanline itsself is really bad.
On my setup Xbox 480i component is pretty good, better than Wii at least.
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