OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

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fafangus
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by fafangus »

Hi, sorry if my question seems annoying but
Do you have a pre-order list or something like that ?
I am very interresting (like the others guys here ^^)
Annyway keep up the good work
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marqs
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

Bahn Yuki wrote:Just joined the forum and was wondering if this would be a better alternative to a FrameMeister for Saturn, Genesis, SNES(EuroSCART) and Dreamcast(VGA). I recently purchased an Epson 2045 and it has excellent input delay(24ms) for gaming.

What do you folks think? The projector is native 1080p so this board only going to 720p could cause some processing delay, but I've heard that the scanlines on the FrameMeister look horrid in 1080p mode. Believe me playing retro games on a 158" screen can turn into a pixaleted mess in a hurry.
It depends which are your priorities. With Framemeister it's possible to convert anything to 1080p, but it adds another ~24ms to the delay chain (and possibly more with interlaced sources). This board can convert 240p to 480p (or 720p if your PJ accepts the signal) and digitize other modes without much delay, plus the price will be lower.
fafangus wrote:Hi, sorry if my question seems annoying but
Do you have a pre-order list or something like that ?
I am very interresting (like the others guys here ^^)
Annyway keep up the good work
I'll open the pre-order list for the planned initial batch (50 boards) once I'm satisfied enough with the prototype PCB design so that I can give a better estimate for release date and price. I've been planning to release the board in 2 variants: a DIY kit and a completely assembled system. It goes without saying that the former will be much cheaper since assembly carries both the biggest single cost and highest risk.
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fafangus
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by fafangus »

Thanks for your reply
I'll go for a complete assembled system (as I'm a total dumbass when it come to soldering things)
I'll wait till you open preorders
:wink:
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Bahn Yuki
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Bahn Yuki »

marqs wrote:
Bahn Yuki wrote:Just joined the forum and was wondering if this would be a better alternative to a FrameMeister for Saturn, Genesis, SNES(EuroSCART) and Dreamcast(VGA). I recently purchased an Epson 2045 and it has excellent input delay(24ms) for gaming.

What do you folks think? The projector is native 1080p so this board only going to 720p could cause some processing delay, but I've heard that the scanlines on the FrameMeister look horrid in 1080p mode. Believe me playing retro games on a 158" screen can turn into a pixaleted mess in a hurry.
It depends which are your priorities. With Framemeister it's possible to convert anything to 1080p, but it adds another ~24ms to the delay chain (and possibly more with interlaced sources). This board can convert 240p to 480p (or 720p if your PJ accepts the signal) and digitize other modes without much delay, plus the price will be lower.
fafangus wrote:Hi, sorry if my question seems annoying but
Do you have a pre-order list or something like that ?
I am very interresting (like the others guys here ^^)
Annyway keep up the good work
I'll open the pre-order list for the planned initial batch (50 boards) once I'm satisfied enough with the prototype PCB design so that I can give a better estimate for release date and price. I've been planning to release the board in 2 variants: a DIY kit and a completely assembled system. It goes without saying that the former will be much cheaper since assembly carries both the biggest single cost and highest risk.
Thank you for your prompt reply. I'd like to be on your our order list for a complete system. If you can eliminate the input delay more than the framemeister I believe that will be a better purchase for my needs
Displays I currently own:
LG 83C1(OLED),LG 77C2(OLED), LG 42C2(OLED),TCL 75R635(MiniLED),Apple Studio Monitor 21(PCCRT),SONY 34XBR960x2(HDCRT)
SONY 32XBR250,Samsung UBJ590(LED),Panasonic P50VT20(Plasma),JVC NZ8
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dwards
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by dwards »

marqs wrote:
Bahn Yuki wrote:Just joined the forum and was wondering if this would be a better alternative to a FrameMeister for Saturn, Genesis, SNES(EuroSCART) and Dreamcast(VGA). I recently purchased an Epson 2045 and it has excellent input delay(24ms) for gaming.

What do you folks think? The projector is native 1080p so this board only going to 720p could cause some processing delay, but I've heard that the scanlines on the FrameMeister look horrid in 1080p mode. Believe me playing retro games on a 158" screen can turn into a pixaleted mess in a hurry.
It depends which are your priorities. With Framemeister it's possible to convert anything to 1080p, but it adds another ~24ms to the delay chain (and possibly more with interlaced sources). This board can convert 240p to 480p (or 720p if your PJ accepts the signal) and digitize other modes without much delay, plus the price will be lower.
fafangus wrote:Hi, sorry if my question seems annoying but
Do you have a pre-order list or something like that ?
I am very interresting (like the others guys here ^^)
Annyway keep up the good work
I'll open the pre-order list for the planned initial batch (50 boards) once I'm satisfied enough with the prototype PCB design so that I can give a better estimate for release date and price. I've been planning to release the board in 2 variants: a DIY kit and a completely assembled system. It goes without saying that the former will be much cheaper since assembly carries both the biggest single cost and highest risk.
Marqs,

Are you saying the framemeister adds another ~24ms of lag just for being 1080p vs 720p? Or is it ~24ms of lag total regardless of upscaling to 720p or 1080p? Just curious because i had a framemeister and sold it after performing a lag test and finding the result to be 100ms all in, with controller, TV and 240p upscaled to 1080p. But i didn't compare it to if it were upscaled to 720p.
Kilmaattikahn
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Kilmaattikahn »

dwards wrote:the framemeister adds another ~24ms of lag just for being 1080p vs 720p?
No.
Or is it ~24ms of lag total regardless of upscaling to 720p or 1080p?
Yes.
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marqs
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

Kilmaattikahn wrote:Or is it ~24ms of lag total regardless of upscaling to 720p or 1080p?
Yes.
Indeed. I measured ~23ms latency (~39ms with interlaced source) a few years ago with an Eizo monitor which itself adds a few milliseconds of latency. I haven't tried with newer firmware but I don't think that'd make any difference.
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marqs
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

It's almost one year since the first post here :shock:. Didn't originally except so many to be interested in this project - thanks for all for following the progress! Now it's good time to summarize current status and plans. Several users have asked about pre-ordering possibility, so I've finally opened the list (link at the end of the post).

Below are some overview images of the latest prototype, and updated specifications.

Image

Image Image
  • * Low latency (<0.2ms) video digitizer and scan converter designed for gamers
    * 3 inputs supporting several formats: RGB-scart (RGBS/RGsB), 3xRCA (YPbPr/RGsB), VGA (RGBHV, RGBS)
    * Linedouble-support for 240p/288p, 480i/576i
    * Linetriple-support for 240p with 4 different sampling configurations (for compatible monitors)
    * Digitization of various EDTV/HDTV/PC modes
    * Quick video mode change, e.g. between 240p and 480i
    * Full-range RGB digital video output
    * Extra features: adjustable scanlines, border mask, Rec. 601/709 selection for YPbPr etc.
    * Configurable Video LPF (4 settings and bypass)
    * Remote control support and 2 PCB buttons
    * microSD-slot for easy firmware updates
    * On-board JTAG-connector and open firmware
    * Will be available as a complete unit and as a DIY kit
There's still some work to do before the system is release quality, but in a few months everything should be ready for a first batch of 50 boards. The pre-order form below has some additional ordering information and estimates for schedule & pricing.

Pre-order form
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rtw
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by rtw »

pre-order done :mrgreen:
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by emphatic »

How many units will be available when the pre-order units are gone? How big is the chance of any hardware changes at this point? I'm eager to get one, but I've been burnt before by hardware having to be completed well after purchase because early adopter users often find issues engineers look past.
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FinalBaton
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by FinalBaton »

Form sent.
Hyped :mrgreen:
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Fudoh
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Fudoh »

in its current state it's already better than the classic XRGB units have ever been. The Framemeister targets a slightly different audience (real motion adaptive 480i deinterlacing on the Mini versus zero lag single field processing here).
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marqs
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

emphatic wrote:How many units will be available when the pre-order units are gone?
There will be more to come if all goes well and pre-orderers are happy with the first batch, but it'll take time to order PCBs and components (and some are increasingly hard to find) so the second set won't be immediately available the first one.
emphatic wrote:How big is the chance of any hardware changes at this point?
HDMI will be replaced by DVI for the "complete unit"-version and case is probably going to be a bit different in the final version, but otherwise there shouldn't be any major changes unless I find new issues during the next few weeks.
emphatic wrote:I'm eager to get one, but I've been burnt before by hardware having to be completed well after purchase because early adopter users often find issues engineers look past.
Perfectly understandable. The prototypes have been, and currently are tested by a few testers to find out any issues, and there will be a review of the release unit by Fudoh before they ship out. Of course it's still possible that eventually some problem arises, but I'm doing my best to keep the quality high.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Xyga »

Done ! 8) 8) 8)
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by ZellSF »

want

can't wait for Fudoh's review. will have to wait for the complete version though, not a DYIer :(
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Hoagtech »

Signed up for complete unit. Cant wait to play classic games on 640 x 480 with no lag. Now the wait and anticipation.. :P
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by donluca »

This is amazing, congrats on your work!

The price is a bit steep for the complete unit but well below the cost of a XRGB-Mini.

Will it have also a an analog VGA out in a future revision or digital only?
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Schon-i »

Pre-order form sent!
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Unseen »

I'm slightly worried about the vertical LCD - to me it seems to be a likely point of failure, either by shearing it off when force is applied from behind or breaking it when the converter is packed away in a tight space and pressure is applied to the side.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by werk91 »

That's terrific news! Can't wait to see some reviews and photos and I will be ordering one eventually. Well done!
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by jandrogo »

I have read in the early posts that the device performs great with a nec display... Any info about the model? Or how it will perform in my 23" Nec Ea23Wmi? Fudoh do you still have this monitor to test it?

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Fudoh
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Fudoh »

480p output should work on all displays. 720p likely on many PC monitors, but hardly on any TVs. 480p from this one is rather close to the FM's 720p already.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by blizzz »

I really hope that this scaler fixes the color problems I have with the Framemeister. Just checked again with my PC and my TV displays RGB Full Range without problems. I still have no idea why the Framemeister in RGB output looks off.

marqs, is it possible to choose between RGB and YCbCr output? That might be useful for some TVs and capture cards.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Konsolkongen »

Fudoh wrote:480p output should work on all displays. 720p likely on many PC monitors, but hardly on any TVs. 480p from this one is rather close to the FM's 720p already.
That's nice and all. But a damn shame if you happen to own a Panasonic TV. Panasonic insist on forcing overscan on everything 4:3, so you will loose a chunk of the image on those TVs :)

For owners of Panasonic TVs I guess a(n expensive) solution could be to use a HDfury to convert the HDMI to VGA and then run that through a Gefen VGA to DVI scaler, which does really nice 480p scaling. That's probably what I'll do with this thing, once I get it, and I find a used Panasonic plasma that isn't ruined by burn-in :D
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by emphatic »

That's good to know, especially since I have a Panasonic Plasma.
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by RetroGame❤ »

marqs wrote:HDMI will be replaced by DVI for the "complete unit"
With a DVI out, will one of these work if I want to connect it to a VGA monitor via D-Sub 15?

Image
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by P1kas »

RetroGame❤ wrote:
marqs wrote:HDMI will be replaced by DVI for the "complete unit"
With a DVI out, will one of these work if I want to connect it to a VGA monitor via D-Sub 15?

Image
Doubt it. Those adapters are for DVI-I(Carries analog signal) to D-Sub. This device would output a digital signal through DVI-D. Unless of course marqs implements some kind of analog output.
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marqs
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by marqs »

donluca wrote:Will it have also a an analog VGA out in a future revision or digital only?
VGA would have increased the cost and complexity which is why it was left out from this board. A future system (if I end up designing one after this) could have separate output daugherboards for different output types.
Unseen wrote:I'm slightly worried about the vertical LCD - to me it seems to be a likely point of failure, either by shearing it off when force is applied from behind or breaking it when the converter is packed away in a tight space and pressure is applied to the side.
That's true, but there's noy many options. Ideally the whole system would be in a metallic case like 80s electronics, but that's way out of scope for a DIY project. A small amount of glue holds the display quite firmly in position so it shouldn't get detached easily by accident, but of course packaging must be done carefully.
jandrogo wrote:I have read in the early posts that the device performs great with a nec display... Any info about the model? Or how it will perform in my 23" Nec Ea23Wmi?
At least the NECs I have (1990SXi and PA272W) are very tolerant on the input timings (and have great adjustment options), so in that sense they perform great. Then again, they're not the best gaming displays around but still quite OK.
blizzz wrote:marqs, is it possible to choose between RGB and YCbCr output? That might be useful for some TVs and capture cards.
HDMI can only be supported in DIY-version (sadly, due to royalties), and DVI doesn't support YCbCr.
Konsolkongen wrote:That's nice and all. But a damn shame if you happen to own a Panasonic TV. Panasonic insist on forcing overscan on everything 4:3, so you will loose a chunk of the image on those TVs :)
I have a VT30 and yeah, that's a shame. Still, not that many retro games use overscan area.
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Bahn Yuki
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by Bahn Yuki »

Filled out form. Eagerly awaiting the pcb!
Displays I currently own:
LG 83C1(OLED),LG 77C2(OLED), LG 42C2(OLED),TCL 75R635(MiniLED),Apple Studio Monitor 21(PCCRT),SONY 34XBR960x2(HDCRT)
SONY 32XBR250,Samsung UBJ590(LED),Panasonic P50VT20(Plasma),JVC NZ8
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Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler

Post by RetroGame❤ »

P1kas wrote:Doubt it. Those adapters are for DVI-I(Carries analog signal) to D-Sub. This device would output a digital signal through DVI-D. Unless of course marqs implements some kind of analog output.
What about this then..? DVI-D to VGA: http://www.amazon.com/Male-DVI-D-Female ... B007EA48MA
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