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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:24 am 


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Joined: 25 Aug 2018
Posts: 37
Location: Spain
Hi. Thanks for the OSD marqs. It's a great addition to the FW IMO. I'm having two very minor issues though.

The familiar small artifacts at 5x scale are back for me (link). I guess the FPGA timing improvements don't fix the timing violations for the few OSSC's that had to use the alternate fw with another seed. 4x works fine, like when it happened in an earlier fw.

My second issue has probably nothing to do with the fw 0.85 and will make me sound overly pedantic, but here it goes. I've also started to notice that the top and bottom part of the image, in some rare circumstances, are lighter than the rest of it. I think Snatcher is a worst-case scenario where it's very easy to spot it:
Spoiler: show
Image


I reinstalled my genesis triple bypass, only this time soldering the RGBS lines directly to the VDP chip by disconnecting the legs from the PCB, but the issues was still there. I tried it out in a TV with the SCART cable connected directly and it doesn't happen:
Spoiler: show
Image


So I went looking for this in other consoles and I can somewhat reproduce it, but it's never as noticeable as in Snatcher (consoles directly connected to the OSSC).
Chrono Cross
Spoiler: show
Image

Wii menu
Spoiler: show
Image


I guess it might just be a quirk in my monitor or maybe the cables I'm using (or I just accidentaly fried something :D). Honestly this has never botherd me in three years, so it's not a major issue, but I'm curious if anyone else has seen this behaviour. It happens regardless of the OSSC's scaling setting.


Last edited by hugo19941994 on Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:18 pm 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 699
Location: Finland
hugo19941994 wrote:
The familiar small artifacts at 5x scale are back for me (link). I guess the FPGA timing improvements don't fix the timing violations for the few OSSC's that had to use the alternate fw with another seed. 4x works fine, like when it happened in an earlier fw.
Before release of 0.85 I tested it with my "slow" board but it didn't have the issue (which is had with original 0.84). Makes it kinda hard to test as there's no indication which image is better than another and from which exact timing paths these violations originate from.

hugo19941994 wrote:
I guess it might just be a quirk in my monitor or maybe the cables I'm using (or I just accidentaly fried something :D). Honestly this has never botherd me in three years, so it's not a major issue, but I'm curious if anyone else has seen this behaviour. It happens regardless of the OSSC's scaling setting.
I remember bumping into this issue on pcb version 1.1 where it was caused by too small RGB coupling caps before video LPF chip. Do you have an option to test any of these systems on AV3 (where this chip is bypassed)? If the issue cannot be reproduced on AV3, then there's a couple HW or SW modifications that might help with the other inputs.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:16 pm 



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 12
Hi Marqs,

the green pins: 1, 9, 10, 17 & 18 no signal (only signal on 2)

the pink pins: 23 & 24 no signal

Bad thing? :|


marqs wrote:
I've debugged one Kaico unit that had very similar symptoms, caused a by a faulty HDMI transmitter chip. If you have a multimeter, you can use diode tester funtion to test tmds lines.
[/quote]
Testing is easy if you have a HDMI-DVI cable. Just power off ossc, connect the cable on OSSC end and set multimeter to diode tester mode. Then hold the positive probe on DVI connector chassis (gnd) and then go through TMDS clock and data channel 0-2 pins (green and pink ones in this picture) with the negative probe. They should all read between 400 and 700 millivolts, but one of those might be shorted in your case.[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:04 pm 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 699
Location: Finland
crt wrote:
Hi Marqs,

the green pins: 1, 9, 10, 17 & 18 no signal (only signal on 2)

the pink pins: 23 & 24 no signal

Bad thing? :|
Are you sure you're in diode testing mode and have the probes the correct way (+ to chassis, - to pins)? Anyway, if you get a signal (beep?) from pin 2 (digital red +), it sounds like that's then shorted to gnd like in the board I tested.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:08 pm 


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Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Posts: 991
marqs wrote:
hugo19941994 wrote:
I guess it might just be a quirk in my monitor or maybe the cables I'm using (or I just accidentaly fried something :D). Honestly this has never botherd me in three years, so it's not a major issue, but I'm curious if anyone else has seen this behaviour. It happens regardless of the OSSC's scaling setting.
I remember bumping into this issue on pcb version 1.1 where it was caused by too small RGB coupling caps before video LPF chip. Do you have an option to test any of these systems on AV3 (where this chip is bypassed)? If the issue cannot be reproduced on AV3, then there's a couple HW or SW modifications that might help with the other inputs.

I get that with sources that output a large number of blank lines in the active area before the visible content. I figured it was something related to AGC


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:20 pm 



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 12
Hi Marqs,

I really have very little knowledge of electronics, but I have made sure to select the diode icon (shared with beep on my multimeter), when selecting it on the screen it shows OL. Touching pin 2 indicates 576.8 on the screen without making a beep.

I will try another cable. I only have this one that is hdmi-dvi, the others are hdmi-hdmi with an hdmi-dvi head... (the Samsung 204b only have 1 vga and 1 dvi inputs).

Thank you!


marqs wrote:
crt wrote:
Hi Marqs,

the green pins: 1, 9, 10, 17 & 18 no signal (only signal on 2)

the pink pins: 23 & 24 no signal

Bad thing? :|
Are you sure you're in diode testing mode and have the probes the correct way (+ to chassis, - to pins)? Anyway, if you get a signal (beep?) from pin 2 (digital red +), it sounds like that's then shorted to gnd like in the board I tested.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:28 pm 


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Joined: 25 Aug 2018
Posts: 37
Location: Spain
marqs wrote:
I remember bumping into this issue on pcb version 1.1 where it was caused by too small RGB coupling caps before video LPF chip. Do you have an option to test any of these systems on AV3 (where this chip is bypassed)? If the issue cannot be reproduced on AV3, then there's a couple HW or SW modifications that might help with the other inputs.


Unfortunately right now I don't have a way to test the Genesis with a VGA cable. I can purchase a sync strike to test it out. However I have tried out a Dreamcast with both a SCART and VGA cable and there does seem to be a difference.

SCART
Spoiler: show
Image


VGA
Spoiler: show
Image


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:34 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 708
Following up on what I posted earlier, I was able to confirm that the OSSC successfully handles 480i RGBS via AV3 in most cases. Tested PS1, Saturn, PS2, and Wii. For some systems I needed the interlace hack in the compatibility settings. What did not work at all was 480i RGBHV from a Dreamcast.

And man, now I can see why that LPF is sorely missed on AV3. It's noise city with pretty much every type of signal I checked, except the Wii (with WiiDual), that looked very clean. If I stick with this setup it looks like I'd definitely need a DE-15 to SCART cable, or I guess a DE-15 to RGB RCA cable for AV2? I'd prefer the latter as I hate SCART connectors.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:11 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1572
fernan1234 wrote:
Following up on what I posted earlier, I was able to confirm that the OSSC successfully handles 480i RGBS via AV3 in most cases. Tested PS1, Saturn, PS2, and Wii. For some systems I needed the interlace hack in the compatibility settings. What did not work at all was 480i RGBHV from a Dreamcast.

And man, now I can see why that LPF is sorely missed on AV3. It's noise city with pretty much every type of signal I checked, except the Wii (with WiiDual), that looked very clean. If I stick with this setup it looks like I'd definitely need a DE-15 to SCART cable, or I guess a DE-15 to RGB RCA cable for AV2? I'd prefer the latter as I hate SCART connectors.

If you're mainly handling RGBS (as suggested by the majority consoles you mentioned having tested), I would go into AV1 with a DE-15 to SCART adapter/cable; same LPF support as AV2, and it'll be simpler to set up, because you don't need to strip sync from any sync-on-composite or sync-on-luma sources.

If you were to go into AV2, I expect you'd need to 1) strip sync from those sources (because RGB interfaces generally ignore anything except clean composite sync), and then b) run them into something like an Extron RGB interface to rewrite RGBS to RGsB in order to get it into AV2.

Sadly, I don't think the community really has an alternative to Extron's RGB interfaces; I think it would be really nice if the community had something like that that could, notably, accept CVBS and luma as valid sync signals, and could auto-detect any kind of sync signal (including handling both 75Ohm and TTL) and strip/mux sync into whatever anyone needs. Bonus if it could auto-detect YPbPr as well and/or do colorspace conversion with both RGB and YPbPr outputs. The closest thing we could get to that would probably be a secondary, upstream OSSC with everything set to passthrough, paired with either an HDMI-to-YPbPr or HDMI-to-VGA converter, and then LPFs turned off on the downstream OSSC. :/


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:58 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 708
nmalinoski wrote:
If you were to go into AV2, I expect you'd need to 1) strip sync from those sources (because RGB interfaces generally ignore anything except clean composite sync), and then b) run them into something like an Extron RGB interface to rewrite RGBS to RGsB in order to get it into AV2.


Oh right, I forgot about this possibility. I do have an Extron Rxi I could use to test this out. The PS2 was the noisiest (somehow a bit less noisy with line2x(bob) as opposed to passthrough) so I'll check with that first.

nmalinoski wrote:
Sadly, I don't think the community really has an alternative to Extron's RGB interfaces; I think it would be really nice if the community had something like that that could, notably, accept CVBS and luma as valid sync signals, and could auto-detect any kind of sync signal (including handling both 75Ohm and TTL) and strip/mux sync into whatever anyone needs. Bonus if it could auto-detect YPbPr as well and/or do colorspace conversion with both RGB and YPbPr outputs.


Now this would be pretty damn handy.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:02 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1572
fernan1234 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
If you were to go into AV2, I expect you'd need to 1) strip sync from those sources (because RGB interfaces generally ignore anything except clean composite sync), and then b) run them into something like an Extron RGB interface to rewrite RGBS to RGsB in order to get it into AV2.


Oh right, I forgot about this possibility. I do have an Extron Rxi I could use to test this out. The PS2 was the noisiest (somehow a bit less noisy with line2x(bob) as opposed to passthrough) so I'll check with that first.

You probably already know, but do remember that the PS2 needs either a sync stripper (A la Ultimarc's PS2/PS3 cable) or a CSync hardmod in order to work with the RGB interfaces.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:15 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 708
nmalinoski wrote:
You probably already know, but do remember that the PS2 needs either a sync stripper (A la Ultimarc's PS2/PS3 cable) or a CSync hardmod in order to work with the RGB interfaces.


Thanks for the reminder. I'm not sure if my PS2 cable has a sync stripper, but I know my PS1 cable does, so I could use that just for testing.

BTW, is the OSSC supposed to retain changed settings after powering it off/unplugging it? It looks like mine returns to default settings.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:20 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1572
fernan1234 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
You probably already know, but do remember that the PS2 needs either a sync stripper (A la Ultimarc's PS2/PS3 cable) or a CSync hardmod in order to work with the RGB interfaces.


Thanks for the reminder. I'm not sure if my PS2 cable has a sync stripper, but I know my PS1 cable does, so I could use that just for testing.

The PS1 cable should work fine for testing; I've not had any trouble using my PS1-specific (220uF caps) SCART cable on my PS2s.

fernan1234 wrote:
BTW, is the OSSC supposed to retain changed settings after powering it off/unplugging it? It looks like mine returns to default settings.

Settings won't be retained unless you specifically save the current state to a profile for them to be saved, so any settings changes you make without committing to a profile will be lost on poweroff. Also, the OSSC will automatically load the last-selected profile when it turns on.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:48 pm 



Joined: 22 Feb 2016
Posts: 27
Hi all, having an issue with profiles.

I make ~10 of them using the website, save the JSON as a backup. Download + write the bin file. I import via the OSSC (running latest FW). It says it imported 10 profiles. But Profiles 0-4 are "empty". Tried different SD, writing via a different app.. any ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:09 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 708
What could explain that the OSSC detects PS2's 480i output as 263p (via RGBS AV3), and displays no picture? This didn't happen when I tested yesterday so it's weird that it behaves like this now. Earlier it was also showing it was a 10XXi signal, and it also kept switching around displaying different numbers.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:30 pm 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 699
Location: Finland
fernan1234 wrote:
What could explain that the OSSC detects PS2's 480i output as 263p (via RGBS AV3), and displays no picture? This didn't happen when I tested yesterday so it's weird that it behaves like this now. Earlier it was also showing it was a 10XXi signal, and it also kept switching around displaying different numbers.
HSync and Vsync leading edges must be well aligned (zero or half-line difference depending on field) for interlace to work reliably via AV3. You can enable "AV3 interlacefix" and/or reduce samplerate to improve your chances.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:40 pm 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 699
Location: Finland
maxtherabbit wrote:
marqs wrote:
hugo19941994 wrote:
I guess it might just be a quirk in my monitor or maybe the cables I'm using (or I just accidentaly fried something :D). Honestly this has never botherd me in three years, so it's not a major issue, but I'm curious if anyone else has seen this behaviour. It happens regardless of the OSSC's scaling setting.
I remember bumping into this issue on pcb version 1.1 where it was caused by too small RGB coupling caps before video LPF chip. Do you have an option to test any of these systems on AV3 (where this chip is bypassed)? If the issue cannot be reproduced on AV3, then there's a couple HW or SW modifications that might help with the other inputs.

I get that with sources that output a large number of blank lines in the active area before the visible content. I figured it was something related to AGC
There are a number of clamp and ALC register settings that might help with this. I'll have to dig some suitable test source and see if they make any difference.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:56 am 


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Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 173
Hey folks, this is a bit in to the weeds but I know it's been discussed in here before and I bought it to use with the OSSC:

I got a Datapath VisionRGB E1 (not E1S, though I'm not sure it matters for this) off ebay this week, and am having some really odd issues. Essentially, the card seems to work, but whenever any software attempts to interact with it, the software (and sometimes my computer) locks up and crashes. I've used OBS, VCS, AmaRec, and the Vision software which accompanies the drivers, as well as trying multiple iterations of the driver software, with the exact same interaction: First I boot up the software, usually I get an image of what the OSSC is sending the capture card (it doesn't always show me an image, but it usually does), then it immediately begins stuttering severely, followed by a total freeze, and the software crashing. Anyone experienced this? I've done everything I could think to do without going out and buying new computer hardware, and I'm beginning to think the card is just faulty since i can't find any reports of similar behaviour on the net.

**Solved! Dark Aries in the R3 RGB discord helped me out. Was running out of PCIE Lanes, needed to reconfigure the position of my GPU, basically. Didn't expect this to be a concern, my b. Leaving the whole text in case someone finds this in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:30 am 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 5
Hi everyone (sorry for bad english)

I would like to know, would a x6 mode be possible for 240p content (especially 256x240 and 320x240) with actual hardware ? or this would require a new hardware revision of the OSSC ? That would be a perfect match for 1440p screens.

But still, I'm enjoying my OSSC so far, great great product, thanks to the retro community and Marqs =)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:05 am 



Joined: 06 Nov 2014
Posts: 12
https://www.videogameperfection.com/201 ... nd-pushed/

;-)


zarkFR wrote:
Hi everyone (sorry for bad english)

I would like to know, would a x6 mode be possible for 240p content (especially 256x240 and 320x240) with actual hardware ? or this would require a new hardware revision of the OSSC ? That would be a perfect match for 1440p screens.

But still, I'm enjoying my OSSC so far, great great product, thanks to the retro community and Marqs =)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:43 pm 


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Location: Kentucky
Can anyone recommend a receiver brand that works well with the OSSC? I believe MyLifeInGaming recommended either Denon or Onkyo, though I will say reviews for the Denon AVRs I've looked at point out a lot of small problems and they seem pretty outdated software/setup wise


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:21 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1572
bobrocks95 wrote:
Can anyone recommend a receiver brand that works well with the OSSC? I believe MyLifeInGaming recommended either Denon or Onkyo, though I will say reviews for the Denon AVRs I've looked at point out a lot of small problems and they seem pretty outdated software/setup wise

I have a now-older Onkyo TX-NR555 that hasn't had much trouble with the OSSC. The only problem I actually ran into was transmission of 480i over HDMI due to the OSSC not setting a flag, which was fixed in, I believe, firmware 0.84.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:06 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 294
Mikeyy00 wrote:
Hi all, having an issue with profiles.

I make ~10 of them using the website, save the JSON as a backup. Download + write the bin file. I import via the OSSC (running latest FW). It says it imported 10 profiles. But Profiles 0-4 are "empty". Tried different SD, writing via a different app.. any ideas?


Have you tried a different browser to generate the bin file? Can you share the JSON file?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:02 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 342
bobrocks95 wrote:
Can anyone recommend a receiver brand that works well with the OSSC? I believe MyLifeInGaming recommended either Denon or Onkyo, though I will say reviews for the Denon AVRs I've looked at point out a lot of small problems and they seem pretty outdated software/setup wise


I have an old Pioneer SC-67 Elite, if only for the many HDMI inputs. As long as you disable all video processing, this thing is pretty good. It's old, so you might be able to find a good deal (all Pioneers are pretty good) and had lots of composite/component/audio inputs.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:24 pm 


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Location: Kentucky
ldeveraux wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
Can anyone recommend a receiver brand that works well with the OSSC? I believe MyLifeInGaming recommended either Denon or Onkyo, though I will say reviews for the Denon AVRs I've looked at point out a lot of small problems and they seem pretty outdated software/setup wise


I have an old Pioneer SC-67 Elite, if only for the many HDMI inputs. As long as you disable all video processing, this thing is pretty good. It's old, so you might be able to find a good deal (all Pioneers are pretty good) and had lots of composite/component/audio inputs.


Definitely getting a newer receiver for HDMI 2.1 or at least eARC functionality, but I will look into Pioneer as an option, I had kind of ignored them.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:43 pm 


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Location: Denmark
bobrocks95 wrote:
Can anyone recommend a receiver brand that works well with the OSSC? I believe MyLifeInGaming recommended either Denon or Onkyo, though I will say reviews for the Denon AVRs I've looked at point out a lot of small problems and they seem pretty outdated software/setup wise


Don't know your budget but I would recommend that you look into Yamaha for sure. Earlier this year I upgraded my seven/eight years old RX-A1010 to an RX-A2080 and it fully lives up to my very high expectations given how pleased I was with the old one. Honestly te A1010 has been one of the most flawless experiences I've ever had with consumer electronics. It just worked brilliantly all the time, every day - zero bugs or quirks. Yamaha's product are well know for having some of the lowest failure rates. This is something I learned from our repair guy when I worked in retail some years ago, but I've also confirmed this from several other shops since and general user experiences on forums. With this being my 4th Yamaha receiver I can only say that I've never had a single issue with any of them, and I expect my new one to perform just as well as the old ones.
Oh and it sounds absolutely brilliant too! :) I loved the A1010, but was shocked when I experienced the sound quality of the new one.

I can confirm that both the A1010 and the A2080 are completely lagfree, tested with OSSC's lagtester. They also pass through every picture mode perfectly fine to my LG C9. The only disadvantage to running the OSSC through an AVR is that the time before the image sync to the TV is slightly longer.
While I have only tested these two models myself I cannot say for sure that all other Yamaha receiver will perform just as well with the OSSC, but my guess is that odds are pretty decent.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:23 pm 


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Posts: 3128
Location: Ireland
For AVRs, don't go Sony if you want reliable, our 2nd Sony amp (which was in use by my parents) died just weeks ago, lucky I took out the extended warranty on it after the first one bit the dust.

Been very pleased with my Denon in my new setup.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:08 am 


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Posts: 173
Appreciation post to folks recommending the VisionRGB E1, and to FBX for his tweaking guide.

Without Scanlines:
Spoiler: show
Image


With Scanlines:
Spoiler: show
Image


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:40 pm 


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Posts: 2311
Location: Kentucky
Thanks for the receiver recommendations btw guys.

It kind of struck me as a really bad time to buy a new receiver given that 2020 models will likely upgrade to HDMI 2.1. So I went with the cheapest eARC-supported receiver I could find, which was a refurbished Yamaha TSR-5830. Hopefully it will last me a good while before I upgrade properly.

Also found out that lip-sync correction is "mandatory" for eARC devices, and I have no clue if that means that manufacturers just have to support it, or if you can't turn it off. Since most lip-sync corrections add 300ms of audio delay, eARC would probably end up worthless for games, so we'll see!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:53 pm 


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Location: Denmark
Setting lipsync to auto and 0ms works on my A2080 on all sources regardless if they are connected through HDMI directly or ARC from the TV.


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