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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:51 pm 


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Nice! Both of them worked just fine :D Thanks so much!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:07 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 266
The build I made has a Seed of 4 with which I got better results at N64 256x240 LineX5 which has a very high pixel clock of 182Mhz. Everything else already worked fine.

It's strange because Seed 10 has no timing violations but Seed 4 has a few small violations though it works better.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:38 pm 


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Just out of curiosity, why is there a 1440i option, but no 960i option? I don't know if compatibility would fare any better, but I haven't seen anyone talk about 1440i being supported by a display. Maybe 1440i is actually a standard of some sort and 960i isn't?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:01 pm 



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bobrocks95 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, why is there a 1440i option, but no 960i option? I don't know if compatibility would fare any better, but I haven't seen anyone talk about 1440i being supported by a display. Maybe 1440i is actually a standard of some sort and 960i isn't?

I've been wondering this myself; I think those of us with secondary video processors (I have an Extron DSC 301 HD) would get more use out of a 480i line2x laced mode that gives us 960i. No need to get rid of line2x (bob), just add line2x (laced).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:08 pm 


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I personally don't see any use in 960i or 1440i. After all, due to the move from 1:1 (odd to even lines) to 2:2 you cannot run a secondary processor for deinterlacing. It might be an enjoyable look for some, but it's not for me :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:29 pm 



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Fudoh wrote:
I personally don't see any use in 960i or 1440i. After all, due to the move from 1:1 (odd to even lines) to 2:2 you cannot run a secondary processor for deinterlacing. It might be an enjoyable look for some, but it's not for me :mrgreen:

My assumption with 960i has been that it would simply be a 2x integer scale of 480i that would take about as long to deinterlace as 1080i, and the resulting 960p image would end up a little less blurry than 480p scaled to 1080p. Is that not what would happen?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:08 am 


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Quote:
My assumption with 960i has been that it would simply be a 2x integer scale of 480i that would take about as long to deinterlace as 1080i

yes, but the proper algorithms are missing, which often lets the deinterlacer default to weaving (if you even can find a machine to accept the signal). In my eyes these are experimental modes for use on a CRT.

Quote:
and the resulting 960p image would end up a little less blurry than 480p scaled to 1080p. Is that not what would happen?

possibly a tad less blurry, yes, but with various other kinds of problems.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:42 am 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, why is there a 1440i option, but no 960i option? I don't know if compatibility would fare any better, but I haven't seen anyone talk about 1440i being supported by a display. Maybe 1440i is actually a standard of some sort and 960i isn't?

Historically, interlacing is signalled in the video signal by a line that is just half as long as a normal one and the position of the sync signals relative to this line determine if it's an even or odd field.

The OSSC works mostly synchronous to the input signal, so it can't just delete or insert lines (or half-lines) itself - unless I'm misremembering the architecture. If you double 480i to 960i, your half-line interlace indicator gets multiplied into a full line and thus your interlace indicator vanishes. In 1440i the half-line gets multiplied into 1.5 lines, part of which can be used as interlace indicator again.

I guess that with digital video and non-CRT displays there could also be other means to tell the display that the signal should be treated as interlaced, but IIRC there is no explicit bit for this in the HDMI infoframe and there is no extra signalling at all in DVI.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:24 am 



Joined: 14 Jun 2019
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Sorry in advance as I’m sure this has been asked before,but I recently got my ossc and ain’t got a clue what all the settings do and which setting does what even after reading the sources online,in general the default setting seem ok but don’t look sharp and a little fuzzy,I’m trying to get my shumps on the Saturn looking awsome!tryed firebrand x setting but don’t seem great on my tv,it would help if I knew what to tweak!is there a idiots guide to setting up?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:23 am 



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I've always been curious if the ossc were capable of sending out fake signal information as a method to fool most tv's into not scaling an image? (such as 1080p in place of 960p)
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:10 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 427
headlesshobbs wrote:
I've always been curious if the ossc were capable of sending out fake signal information as a method to fool most tv's into not scaling an image? (such as 1080p in place of 960p)


I wonder if there's any device that you can put between your source and your TV that can do this. It would be pretty useful. I wouldn't mind having black borders around my picture in order to have a non-scaled or less-scaled picture.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:21 pm 


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Which build should I use?

Release, Paul's, or the second Marqs build?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:28 pm 


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Jademalo wrote:
Which build should I use?

Release, Paul's, or the second Marqs build?

release


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:30 pm 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
release


Alright, ty!
Just planning on advising a few people to update, would rather not cause them issues.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:23 pm 



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Jademalo wrote:
Which build should I use?

Release, Paul's, or the second Marqs build?


The release firmware might have some artifacts with some OSSC's on LineX5 as shown in the posted videos. So use an alternate firmware if that happens.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:43 pm 



Joined: 22 Oct 2018
Posts: 5
I can confirm I get some artifacts at line5x on my Super Famicom. I didn't spot them at first because of my scanline setup. Definitely going to try the alternate firmware.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:02 am 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 156
Just update to 0.83. Setting the new "H. s.rate adj" to 1 or 3 seems to help compatibility with my TV, so thanks to Marqs for adding that.

I'm still struggling, though, to find a perfect "256x240 optim" profile in Line4x for my NES. I spent today going through all the sampling phase degrees, and I can never seem to entirely get rid of ghosting. I keep going around in circles and am just not finding the sweet spot.

Can anyone recommend a methodical order in which I should be approach these settings, to most successfully narrow down the perfect results?

H. s.rate adj
Sampling Phase
Analog Sync LPF


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:23 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 180
I’m color calibrating my OSSC with a colorimeter/spectrometer. Should I be targeting the 601 spec, as that’s the source? Or should I target 709 as an HD signal?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:21 pm 


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709, iirc.
Any HD resolution should be in the 709 colour space, and since the OSSC's outputs in the higher linemult modes is HD, it's 709.

Technically you should be calibrating it to sRGB since the output of the OSSC is in RGB rather than YCbCr by default, but obviously it's the same thing =p


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:37 am 



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Jademalo wrote:
709, iirc.
Any HD resolution should be in the 709 colour space, and since the OSSC's outputs in the higher linemult modes is HD, it's 709.


Is this true if outputting 480p from the OSSC, too? Doesn’t EDTV fall under 601?

Quote:
Technically you should be calibrating it to sRGB since the output of the OSSC is in RGB rather than YCbCr by default, but obviously it's the same thing =p


Good call.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:09 am 


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SavagePencil wrote:
Jademalo wrote:
709, iirc.
Any HD resolution should be in the 709 colour space, and since the OSSC's outputs in the higher linemult modes is HD, it's 709.


Is this true if outputting 480p from the OSSC, too? Doesn’t EDTV fall under 601?


You know, I'm not totally sure.

After a quick bit of searching, I believe EDTV should be encoded with 601.
However, all of this is irrelevant since the OSSC's output is RGB anyway, and 601/709 are only really relevant for YCbCr encoding.

My advice, honestly, would be to set the OSSC to sRGB output, and calibrate to sRGB. There's no point in dealing with component encoding if it's not neccesary.
My personal calibration is pretty rough and ready, but I've been getting great results. I essentially just capture 4:4:4 RGB with my Vision E1S, and then manipulate the gains until black is 0,0,0 and white is 255,255,255 without clipping or crushing, and each colour maxes out at 255. I figure since I'm removing the monitor from the chain in terms of the testing, I can get a relatively accurate result.

I do have one question if you see it marqs - Am I right in thinking that the OSSC does all internal processing in the RGB colour space anyway? I'd assume so considering the option in video in proc to choose the input colour space for component, but I don't know.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:09 am 


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480p is rec601, yes


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:16 am 



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Jademalo wrote:
After a quick bit of searching, I believe EDTV should be encoded with 601.
However, all of this is irrelevant since the OSSC's output is RGB anyway, and 601/709 are only really relevant for YCbCr encoding.

This should be correct. Unless you've specifically configured the OSSC for YCbCr output, it's RGB.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:19 am 


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nmalinoski wrote:
Isn't the 601/709 setting for YPbPr input, not output?


That setting is in Video in proc, the one that affects output is TX mode in output options.


Actually this could use some clarification - does YCbCr444 output always encode in 601 regardless of actual output resolution? The wiki seems to imply such.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:02 am 


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Jademalo wrote:
However, all of this is irrelevant since the OSSC's output is RGB anyway, and 601/709 are only really relevant for YCbCr encoding.

That is incorrect. BT 601 and 709 specify different coordinates for the primary colors so even for RGB there is a difference - actually there is even a difference for PAL and NTSC in BT601. The difference is pretty small though.

Quote:
My advice, honestly, would be to set the OSSC to sRGB output, and calibrate to sRGB.

From the standards point of view, sRGB is almost the same as BT 709 except for the gamma curve.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:13 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
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Unseen wrote:
Jademalo wrote:
However, all of this is irrelevant since the OSSC's output is RGB anyway, and 601/709 are only really relevant for YCbCr encoding.

That is incorrect. BT 601 and 709 specify different coordinates for the primary colors so even for RGB there is a difference - actually there is even a difference for PAL and NTSC in BT601. The difference is pretty small though.

Quote:
My advice, honestly, would be to set the OSSC to sRGB output, and calibrate to sRGB.

From the standards point of view, sRGB is almost the same as BT 709 except for the gamma curve.


So if I have my OSSC set to 480p out, is it getting converted to 601? Or are *all* modes being output as 709?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:47 pm 


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The OSSC doesn't perform color gamut mapping, so it's dependent on content. I suggest not worrying about it too much and calibrate against ITU-R BT.709 + BT.1886.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:54 pm 


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Finally got the chance to install the new firmware, and WOW, I dig the new h+v/custom scanlines!

Unfortunately, I couldn't replicate naz's results (page 222) on my 1080p monitor - plus I like to use optimal timings, instead of generic 4:3... Did anyone have better luck, and mind to share their settings? - so I went the same route of Xyga, with the pseudo-dot matrix effect, and I'm so impressed! I can't really tell why, but I definitely prefer that 'mask' to standard, horizontal scanlines. It kinda reminds me of my old Commodore Amiga monitor... :)

Marqs and everyone else involved, HUGE thumbs up, and thanks for keeping the OSSC alive, adding great new features every time.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:52 pm 


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Galdelico wrote:
I can't really tell why

It's lightweight / less taxing on brightness and motion clarity than full straight lines = easier on the eyes on LCDs which are limited in both.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:04 pm 



Joined: 13 Dec 2016
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I would definitely like to see a little guide or something for making use of the scanlines here. Something similar to the videos out there showing how to tune in the OSSC for the SNES.


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