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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:29 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 985
maxtherabbit wrote:
ok but if narrower (<95MHz) filtering of RGBHV/RGBS inputs on AV3 is not possible, then what happens when you input a signal with LESS bandwidth than 1080p on AV3 in RGBHV/RGBS while in auto mode? does it get filtered under 95MHz or not at all?

The way the wiki reads, yes; feeding AV3 with any RGBS/RGBHV signal less than 1080p results in no LPF being applied.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:56 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
ok but if narrower (<95MHz) filtering of RGBHV/RGBS inputs on AV3 is not possible, then what happens when you input a signal with LESS bandwidth than 1080p on AV3 in RGBHV/RGBS while in auto mode? does it get filtered under 95MHz or not at all?

The way the wiki reads, yes; feeding AV3 with any RGBS/RGBHV signal less than 1080p results in no LPF being applied.

perhaps, but it seems ambiguous to me - not to mention the fact that it would be somewhat nonsensical for an "auto" algorithm to select a wider passband for a signal with less bandwidth

that's why I came here to ask the experts :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:17 am 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:
ok but if narrower (<95MHz) filtering of RGBHV/RGBS inputs on AV3 is not possible, then what happens when you input a signal with LESS bandwidth than 1080p on AV3 in RGBHV/RGBS while in auto mode? does it get filtered under 95MHz or not at all?

The way the wiki reads, yes; feeding AV3 with any RGBS/RGBHV signal less than 1080p results in no LPF being applied.

perhaps, but it seems ambiguous to me - not to mention the fact that it would be somewhat nonsensical for an "auto" algorithm to select a wider passband for a signal with less bandwidth

that's why I came here to ask the experts :wink:

I tested it - inputted a 480p RGBHV signal with slight (V)HF noise to AV3

with the LPF setting on "auto" or 95MHz the output was clean - on any other setting the noise was visible on the output

so "auto" does indeed apply the 95MHz filter to signals at 1080p AND below on AV3


Last edited by maxtherabbit on Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:27 pm 


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Joined: 30 Nov 2017
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Been noticing this since .82,

Have my PS1 hooked up SCART RGB, csync mod, 1.6 ossc, line5x, gscartsw, LGB7, most of the time the picture looks fine.

Sometimes however the picture is wobbly (sync related?), hitting the input change on the ossc and coming back fixes it (it remains fixed until power cycling).

It seems to only happen when the input auto detection on the OSSC triggers and goes to the SCART input, but I don't think I've seen it enough times to be sure.


Not sure if it is my setup or something that has changed in .82, I didn't notice it before.


Last edited by djc5166 on Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:26 pm 


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^ I've noticed the same thing with mine but already several firmwares back, it's not a big disturbanc and it's not alway present.
I'm using a DVI OSSC, vanilla scart rgb cable, and full-hd monitor.
No much difference playing with any of the settings afaik.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:58 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 423
Do either of you have sync regen turned on with the gscartsw? I tend to get wobbly picture with that on, so I leave it turned off.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:26 pm 


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thebigcheese wrote:
Do either of you have sync regen turned on with the gscartsw? I tend to get wobbly picture with that on, so I leave it turned off.


Turned off.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:40 am 


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Forgot to say I have no gscartw in the chain, it's direct. And it's a modded PAL console playing almost exclusively NTSC games.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:41 pm 



Joined: 02 May 2017
Posts: 28
So I had some time to play around with the OSSC and its Scanlines with nice results.



BVM effect:

I follow fernan1234 advice and manage to get some variable thickness in the scanlines, similar to the ones display on a BVM. Here are the comparison photos from Phonedork's BVM vs my LG Oled + OSSC:

Image

The effect is less pronounce than the BVM, but I still like it (I've been playing terranigma like this). Also, the effect is not noticeable on 3X and 5X (thinner blank scanline and more square pixels); it looks the best on 2X and 4X, being 2X the better option on my tv model.




Consumer CRT effect:

I replicated headlesshobbs test to get an image similar to a consumer CRT. I tested Street Fighter on the Dreamcast through the Toro with horizontal scanlines (480p signal) and feed that to the OSSC 2X output with upsample2x enable (960p signal) and feed that to my oled lg. Here are some photos:

Image

Toro doesn't allow brightness adjustment for the scanlines (I would like them darker), but the effect is still impressive (it looks like my old sony Trinitron). An equivalent "simpler" alternative to this will be an option on the OSSC with both horizontal and vertical scanlines with upsamble2x for 4X. Could someone confirm if this is possible on the OSSC?? I would like to do this on all my 240p consoles.


Regards!

Ps: all photos taken with my cellphone, image looks better in person.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:49 pm 



Joined: 26 Nov 2018
Posts: 18
FBX wrote:
I made the first set of import profiles for the OSSC with custom labels (sans the last slot as I didn't use it). Please note that I found in my particular case I have to make Win32DiskImager write the file TWICE to the card before my OSSC will recognize the data (at least for firmware updates). So I always do this for profile imports as well. Also please note the 32X profile is tied to HD Retrovision cables, while the others are tied to RGBS SCART input.

As usual, sampling phase, H. backporch, and V. backporch are random variables on a console/cable case-by-case basis, so you may still need to adjust these for your given setup. Here's the import file link:

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/ossc_profiles_fbx.zip

Simply go into the settings option and look for the import function.

Cheers!

-FBX


Can you tell me where to lace these files on the SD card? I just updated to .82 and I have the import option but it doesn't see anything on the SD card or says "failed"

This whole thing confuses me..and most the guides only partially help. I wish I could hire someone to help me learn and set this thing up.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:27 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 985
NewYears1978 wrote:
Can you tell me where to lace these files on the SD card? I just updated to .82 and I have the import option but it doesn't see anything on the SD card or says "failed"

This whole thing confuses me..and most the guides only partially help. I wish I could hire someone to help me learn and set this thing up.

You don't put them on the SD card directly. They need to be embedded in a firmware update file, which can be done with this app. Paste the JSON into the box at the bottom, hit Import, then scroll down and hit 'Save profiles.bin'.

Now, I haven't used this yet myself, but I believe that .bin file contains the firmware update as well, so I believe you'd flash that to your SD card like you would any other firmware update, and your profiles will be preloaded.

Edit: Nevermind. SavagePencil has the correct instructions. And [strike] isn't a supported BBCode tag. :/


Last edited by nmalinoski on Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:34 am 



Joined: 26 Nov 2018
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nmalinoski wrote:
NewYears1978 wrote:
Can you tell me where to lace these files on the SD card? I just updated to .82 and I have the import option but it doesn't see anything on the SD card or says "failed"

This whole thing confuses me..and most the guides only partially help. I wish I could hire someone to help me learn and set this thing up.

You don't put them on the SD card directly. They need to be embedded in a firmware update file, which can be done with this app. Paste the JSON into the box at the bottom, hit Import, then scroll down and hit 'Save profiles.bin'.

Now, I haven't used this yet myself, but I believe that .bin file contains the firmware update as well, so I believe you'd flash that to your SD card like you would any other firmware update, and your profiles will be preloaded.


Ahhh I see thank you. So the ones FBX provided a few pages back is already embedded so I would just run it as a FW update. (tried that but did not work - ah got it now, wrote the .bin file then did the import command)

I have spent all day trying to fixt this..I can get it looking pretty decent on SNES but whenever I move - things get REALLY sharp in the bkg..when I stop they seem to blur again..it's like..reverse motion blur..very odd..can't figure out what is caused by. It appears to be a ghosting type effect....very very annoying and distracting.

This is not a 1-chip..regular SNES hooked up via SCART.

Really hard to capture on video or photo but look here for example:
https://imgur.com/a/NoFsmgW

It happens on my NES also SCART directly to the OSSC..so it must be my monitor?

Edit: Ahhh mymonitor had this "refresh rate" setting "Standard, Advance and Ultra" Supposedly Ultra removes ghosting..but it was CAUSING the ghosting. So that issue is resolved..I still notice the reverse motion blur effect though where the bkg of games look like they get sharp when the screen is moving. Annoying!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:33 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 155
You’ll need a tool such as Win32 Disk Image Writer to write the .bin file to the SD card (as depicted here: https://www.videogameperfection.com/201 ... -tutorial/ ).

Then you will import the settings by going to Menu -> Settings opt -> Import settings.

More details here: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... t_settings


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:56 pm 


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Quote:
I replicated headlesshobbs test to get an image similar to a consumer CRT. I tested Street Fighter on the Dreamcast through the Toro with horizontal scanlines (480p signal) and feed that to the OSSC 2X output with upsample2x enable (960p signal) and feed that to my oled lg. Here are some photos:


I love how DC looks in this setup, hopefully these scanlines can be added natively to OSSC with 480p material in the future.

Quote:
You’ll need a tool such as Win32 Disk Image Writer to write the .bin file to the SD card (as depicted here: https://www.videogameperfection.com/201 ... -tutorial/ ).

Then you will import the settings by going to Menu -> Settings opt -> Import settings.

More details here: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... t_settings


I do need to do a proper tutorial on the whole profile thing, things are stressful at the moment with planning for the big move, but I'll put it on the to do list.
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Please check the XRGB Wiki before posting about the OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:18 am 



Joined: 26 Nov 2018
Posts: 18
Thanks all for the help. My NES has never looked this good...it looks even better than it did on my CRT 32 in WEGA.

Only set up my NES and partial SNES so far. Trying to figure out the best way to name my profiles without overwriting one. The web tool is PERFECT however since there is no EXPORT from the settings on the OSSC I have to manually key all the changes I made on the OSSC into the Web thing for each profile..very tedious but could be a lot worse if there was no import :)

I assume there is no way to export the settings yet?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:02 am 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 206
BuckoA51 wrote:

I love how DC looks in this setup, hopefully these scanlines can be added natively to OSSC with 480p material in the future.


I am also hoping that proper 240p scanlines can be used on games that are 480p being linedoubled to 960p. There's plenty of games that are supposed to start out low res, but many of the ports get doubled and then there's no proper way to make any of it look right. You can run 240p scanlines on 480p, but you don't get the line count I'm trying to promote, plus your tv's scaling will darken out the picture considerably. I'm really hoping this can be resolved later. The best I can do is run an SLG to get the effect to work, but not everything runs on VGA cables.

Just can't wait to get the later KOF's in 960p like this.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:39 am 


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^ Even better if that effect could be added to the OSSC, would be the vertical lines to have their own independent hybrid level setting.
And of course make the effect work for x4 and x5.

Hopefully marqs might share his thoughts on this. Maybe combining hori and verti lines is impossible with the current design, or there's not enough memory left for fancy stuff like that.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:30 pm 



Joined: 04 Jul 2010
Posts: 206
Well didn't I ask for this feature to be added before, only to be told it wasn't feasible or something?

What I'm doing now is absolute proof of concept and a vital step to the goal of future proofing that we've been trying to obtain for quite some time already. If Marqs figures he can't do it for some reason, it should then be up to one of the coders out there who's doing custom filters to pull this off. It's only having both scanline modes active at the same time, that's just about it but it does require some bit of individual adjustments to make it truly work.

Just to remind you guys of how important this is, refer to https://www.retrogameboards.com/t/scanl ... ing/71/188 as this is how true low res is represented (not the pvm/bvm level we put so much focus on)

Also for comparison's sake, crt line counts vs clear line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gE-G9ZR7Xb8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc0p4qyHERY

Making an arcade game look like an arcade game again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_9S0dDkpms


That's all the proof we need to hit that goal point. Nothing else short of emulation has ever come close to achieving that.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:56 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
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This looks outstanding!

Obviously hard to judge via camera capture and Youtube, but all the elements of the CRT look seem to be there :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:47 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 155
Looking for guidance on where to start with my NES:

Generic 4:3 works fine, looks good, etc. But the moment I switch it to a 256x240 optimized mode, I've totally lost sync. This is the only console that has given me these problems...I'll usually get something on the screen when I set a new console to an optimized mode.

Can I "work backwards" from the Generic 4:3 to find out which settings get flipped in 256x240 to help isolate the issue?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:29 am 



Joined: 26 Nov 2018
Posts: 18
SavagePencil wrote:
Looking for guidance on where to start with my NES:

Generic 4:3 works fine, looks good, etc. But the moment I switch it to a 256x240 optimized mode, I've totally lost sync. This is the only console that has given me these problems...I'll usually get something on the screen when I set a new console to an optimized mode.

Can I "work backwards" from the Generic 4:3 to find out which settings get flipped in 256x240 to help isolate the issue?


It's probably the sampling phase. You can change that and see if you regain sync. In 256x240 I lose sync with some of the sampling phase settings. You don't have to work backward either, simple go into the sampling phase when you lose that sync and move it around and see if that helps.

PS I am a OSSC newb, just got mine, but I experienced sync loss when adjusting the sampling phase while setting up my own 256x240 mode.


To everyone else, is there ever any possibility to add overlay images? the mask works fine but it's just not attractive :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:29 pm 


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NewYears1978 wrote:
To everyone else, is there ever any possibility to add overlay images? the mask works fine but it's just not attractive :)

Nope. I asked about the feasibility of such thing ages ago (I was interested in console specific overlays), and Marqs replied that no, it wasn't doable, for the same reason it's still not possible to add features like screen rotation or filters/shaders.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:29 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
Posts: 155
NewYears1978 wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:
Looking for guidance on where to start with my NES:

Generic 4:3 works fine, looks good, etc. But the moment I switch it to a 256x240 optimized mode, I've totally lost sync. This is the only console that has given me these problems...I'll usually get something on the screen when I set a new console to an optimized mode.

Can I "work backwards" from the Generic 4:3 to find out which settings get flipped in 256x240 to help isolate the issue?


It's probably the sampling phase. You can change that and see if you regain sync. In 256x240 I lose sync with some of the sampling phase settings. You don't have to work backward either, simple go into the sampling phase when you lose that sync and move it around and see if that helps.

PS I am a OSSC newb, just got mine, but I experienced sync loss when adjusting the sampling phase while setting up my own 256x240 mode.


It's not the sampling phase. I'm interested to find out what settings the Generic 4:3 uses to be so tolerable. Can I "emulate" Generic 4:3 using one of the optimized timing modes so that I can isolate what setting is causing the sync to drop out?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:16 pm 


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SavagePencil wrote:
It's not the sampling phase. I'm interested to find out what settings the Generic 4:3 uses to be so tolerable. Can I "emulate" Generic 4:3 using one of the optimized timing modes so that I can isolate what setting is causing the sync to drop out?


You can see what the horizontal multiplication factors are at the bottom of this page.

Compared to generic mode, output lines are longer in optimized modes. It seems your display cannot handle this.

For example, in lx3 generic h.samplerate is 1170 but multiplied by 4/3 for a total of 1560 (lx3 is an exception in this regard, compared to other line modes). In any case, output is 1560. In lx3 256:240 optimized, output is 5*341= 1705.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:18 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
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Harrumph wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:
It's not the sampling phase. I'm interested to find out what settings the Generic 4:3 uses to be so tolerable. Can I "emulate" Generic 4:3 using one of the optimized timing modes so that I can isolate what setting is causing the sync to drop out?


You can see what the horizontal multiplication factors are at the bottom of this page.

Compared to generic mode, output lines are longer in optimized modes. It seems your display cannot handle this.

For example, in lx3 generic h.samplerate is 1170 but multiplied by 4/3 for a total of 1560 (lx3 is an exception in this regard, compared to other line modes). In any case, output is 1560. In lx3 256:240 optimized, output is 5*341= 1705.


Thanks for this. Some follow-up questions:

1. How did you arrive at the 1170 number for Generic mode? EDIT: You derived the 390 common value for me over on the VGP thread here: https://www.videogameperfection.com/for ... ect-ratio/ :)
2. If I were doing 2x, would the h.samplerate be 780? EDIT: Answer is "yes," see above thread for explanation.
3. Is h.samplerate the value I should start with, or are there other variables I should be looking at first in order to dial in the NES?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:17 pm 


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There is no flexibility in optimized mode, the whole point is that you should use the dot clock of the console to perfectly match the sampling, and for NES and SNES that is 341.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:05 pm 



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Harrumph wrote:
There is no flexibility in optimized mode, the whole point is that you should use the dot clock of the console to perfectly match the sampling, and for NES and SNES that is 341.


Right, but at 341 I'm not getting any signal. So what do you advise I do?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:12 pm 


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Quote:
Right, but at 341 I'm not getting any signal. So what do you advise I do?

you might have luck with altering the other specs of the signal. Basically timing specs like active area, front/back porch etc are derived from the sampling setting, but you can still alter them and there's a good chance that your display is able to lock on the signal if you play with those.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:27 pm 



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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
Right, but at 341 I'm not getting any signal. So what do you advise I do?

you might have luck with altering the other specs of the signal. Basically timing specs like active area, front/back porch etc are derived from the sampling setting, but you can still alter them and there's a good chance that your display is able to lock on the signal if you play with those.


I'll focus on the Video In Proc sections first, and then start into the frightening world of Sync Opt with PLL, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:39 pm 


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What you probably need are the advanced timing tweaker options (sampling options menu, last entry). Try the horizontal backporch length. It's important not to touch the active length, since this is directly based on the sampling rate.


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