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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 2:30 pm 



Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Posts: 3
Thank you paulb_nl! The new version works perfectly!


Last edited by rezb1t on Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:19 am 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 900
Location: Australia
Is it safe to put a splitter on a1 out/a2 in.

I want my psp and speakers plugged in at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:01 am 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 573
Syntax wrote:
Is it safe to put a splitter on a1 out/a2 in.

I want my psp and speakers plugged in at the same time.

I recommend leaving that jack as a full-time input for AV2 and figuring out how to get audio from the HDMI output to your speakers, perhaps with an HDMI audio breakout/extractor box (something like this). I would think you're risking damage to either the OSSC or your connected devices by feeding that jack both input and output, when it's designed and intended for only one or the other.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:57 am 


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Location: Australia
Ah stuff that. I just ended up hacking the psp cable to suit AV1.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:35 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 60
Hi Marqs,

The OSSC has to be the best thing I've bought in a very long time. It easily stumps the framemeister as well. Genius piece of a tech worth every single dollar I spent on it.

Are there prospects for a Line3x for 480p? (1920x1440 I assume?).


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:40 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 573
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
Are there prospects for a Line3x for 480p? (1920x1440 I assume?).

480p is 720x480, so 3x would be 2160x1440; and, to my knowledge, the max resolution the OSSC is capable of handling at this point in time is 1920x1200.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:04 am 


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Joined: 01 Apr 2014
Posts: 209
FBX wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
cleanest way would be a HDMI to DVI+SPDIF breakout box and then a SPDIF to USB audio capture dongle.



That's exactly how I do it in my setup too. I also have an ADC deck that outputs optical Toslink that I run into the USB audio capture dongle for clean analog ripping.


Hey FBX - what kind of breakout box and capture dongle do you have?
I've been looking around for something, but I've not been having a lot of luck. My HDMI splitter outputs coaxial SPDIF, but there doesn't seem to be a cheap USB device that can capture that. Nor can I find a cheap toslink splitter that I can then capture.

I could potentially just capture the analogue output from my crosspoint in through the headphone jack, but when I tried it I had some absolutely insane ground loop issues. I really need a way to isolate that, so keeping it digital would be ideal.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:38 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 2081
Location: DFW area, Texas
Jademalo wrote:
Hey FBX - what kind of breakout box and capture dongle do you have?



They are both cheap pieces of crap, but they have worked fine for my needs:

HDMI audio breakout:

https://www.amazon.com/Musou-Extractor-Optical-Splitter-Converter/dp/B06XDNJ6RM/

Toslink USB:

https://www.amazon.com/VAlinks-External-Surround-Recording-Compatible/dp/B013256ODG/

I feed my ADC deck's Toslink output into that USB device as well whenever I need to rip analog sound into a digital recording.

-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:18 pm 


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Joined: 01 Apr 2014
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A cheap piece of crap is all I need, if I'm dealing with digital start to finish then it's infinitely better than dealing with the nightmare analogue ground loop that's going on in my setup. Capturing audio on my PC is just a straight up nightmare.
Which desk do you have out of curiosity?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:52 pm 


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Jademalo wrote:
Which desk do you have out of curiosity?


If you mean 'deck' I use an old Sony mini-disc recorder deck that doubles as an ADC processor. The model number is MDS-JB930. It was 'top of the line' back in its day, and for ADC ripping, it still has the cleanest sound I've ever heard. I don't even bother with the mini-disc part any more and just use the ADC processor in it.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:26 am 


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Ooooh, nice. I assumed you had a small mixing desk, lol.

I've got a whole host of music production kit that I use for ADC normally, but honestly I try to do it as little as possible. The longer in the chain I can keep something digital, the better. I've got a nice high end DAC so there's never a problem on that end, so I just try to go as digital as possible.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:33 am 


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Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 206
Location: Italy
paulb_nl wrote:
The pixel clock might be too low for your monitor. I have updated the firmware so that 512x240 line2x will output 1024x480.

Hi Paul, I finally had the chance to test your custom firmware again.
Unfortunately, I didn't have better luck. The vertical jitter around the middle of the screen is still present, with the only difference being 512p optim. now forces my monitor into 16:9 by default sampling settings.

Still testing it with my Japanese Mega Drive 2.

As always, massive thanks!

PS - Stupid question: I'm using a C-Sync lead from RetroGamingCables with my MD2, one from the new 'OSSC ready' batch, and yesterday - while extensively trying Line 4x without scanlines (FBX' settings for the cleanest image), I noticed how in 320p optim. there are basically no jailbars - compared to the generic Euro AV cable I was using before, which had them all over the place - but there's still a hint of them in 256p optim, only on certain shades of blue. For example, in Fire Mustang, the sky in one stage shows them (once again, it's all very faint and barely visible), while massive chunks of solid grey near it don't. What's behind this oddity?
I'm aware MD2 consoles tend to be pretty bad with jailbars, and honestly it doesn't bother me to the extent I want to mod my system, I'm just curious.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:25 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 231
Galdelico wrote:
Hi Paul, I finally had the chance to test your custom firmware again.
Unfortunately, I didn't have better luck. The vertical jitter around the middle of the screen is still present, with the only difference being 512p optim. now forces my monitor into 16:9 by default sampling settings.

Still testing it with my Japanese Mega Drive 2.


The optimal timings page on the wiki states that the samplerate for 256x240 mode for the Mega drive should be 342 so for 512x240 it should be 684. Though the Mega drive doesn't have a 512x240 output mode right?

Quote:
For example, in Fire Mustang, the sky in one stage shows them (once again, it's all very faint and barely visible), while massive chunks of solid grey near it don't. What's behind this oddity?


No interference in solid grey indicates that you are seeing color carrier interference. You will also see this if you connect composite video to the green component input of the OSSC. Color parts will show massive interference and anything without color will look clean.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:41 am 


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paulb_nl wrote:
The optimal timings page on the wiki states that the samplerate for 256x240 mode for the Mega drive should be 342 so for 512x240 it should be 684. Though the Mega drive doesn't have a 512x240 output mode right?

As far as I know, no, it doesn't. Anyway, it's not a huge deal. I can still get around the odd behaviour of my monitor in 256p optim. Line 2X, and everything looks fine in other modes. I just wanted to report, as you suggested to try that mode with the MD too, to see if it could provide a better support for 256p games in Line Double. ^_-

Quote:
No interference in solid grey indicates that you are seeing color carrier interference. You will also see this if you connect composite video to the green component input of the OSSC. Color parts will show massive interference and anything without color will look clean.

Ha, I get it, thanks.
Sounds like something that could be mitigated with a better cable (my C-Sync cable is not from the PackAPunch series), am I right? Or does it mean I should operate directly on the console? Once again, no jailbars in 320p, and only a minimum amount on certain colours in 256p.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:38 pm 


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Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 1575
Location: Denmark
Is "proper" scanlines possible on Dreamcast in 2x mode (960p), and is this something that's planned for the near future? :)

If not, then I'm just gonna add scanlines to my VGA box as per these instructions:
http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/dreamcast-vga-scanlines/

But I'd rather have the hybrid scanlines of the OSSC :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:17 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 148
MidOrFeed2015 wrote:
Hi Marqs,

The OSSC has to be the best thing I've bought in a very long time. It easily stumps the framemeister as well. Genius piece of a tech worth every single dollar I spent on it.

Are there prospects for a Line3x for 480p? (1920x1440 I assume?).


I think Marqs is working on using a different BIOS/Firmware so as to open up more usable memory on the device. Based on that there could be further enhancements.

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... s2_replace


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:56 pm 


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Location: Denmark
Ah, that probably answers my question as well. Thanks :)


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:15 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 148
Konsolkongen wrote:
Ah, that probably answers my question as well. Thanks :)


You're welcome. Might be a while before we see any FW updates as that's a major code re-write.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:42 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 231
Galdelico wrote:
Sounds like something that could be mitigated with a better cable (my C-Sync cable is not from the PackAPunch series), am I right? Or does it mean I should operate directly on the console? Once again, no jailbars in 320p, and only a minimum amount on certain colours in 256p.


The only cables that can cause color carrier interference are unshielded composite video sync cables so this must be happening inside your console.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:01 pm 


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Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 206
Location: Italy
paulb_nl wrote:
The only cables that can cause color carrier interference are unshielded composite video sync cables so this must be happening inside your console.

Yeah, makes sense. Some MD model 2 are quite notorious for being pretty average/low quality, in terms of audio and video. I can live with it, for now, as I'll probably get a model 1 too, eventually.

Thanks again! ^_-

On a different topic, anyone figured out the correct settings for PAL50/60 480i on the original XBOX, Nintendo GameCube and PlayStation2?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:28 am 


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Posts: 209
Well this has been a disaster.

Got an HDMI to TOSLINK audio splitter, as well as that cheap USB audio interface that has an SPDIF in.
It didn't work.

Cue a huge battery of tests. Splitter to VP50Pro, VP50Pro to audio interface, I tried taking the split audio into the VP50Pro's optical in and then using the optical out of the VP50Pro - Nothing.
After a battery of tests, I stumbled on something interesting. If I took the output of the splitter to the input of the VP50Pro, then it would play that audio back correctly over HDMI. This meant it was something where the HDMI output would work, but the SPDIF output would not.

I then tried plugging an analogue audio input into the VP50Pro, then an SPDIF output to the audio interface.
It worked.

After a fair amount more testing, I ended up with a rough idea of what was happening. All 3 sources worked fine on my TV from the VP50Pro - HDMI from the OSSC, SPDIF from the splitter, and analogue audio into the VP50Pro. However, when VP50Pro's output was set to SPDIF, only analogue audio worked.
I then tried looping the SPDIF output from the audio interface into the SPDIF input, and it worked fine.

This seems to imply to me that there's some sort of copy protection on the HDMI audio and the SPDIF out from the splitter. However, the SPDIF out from the VP50Pro when using the analogue input doesn't have that copy protection, and neither does the output of the cheap audio interface.

At this point I'm stumped. Both the HDMI audio splitter and the VP50Pro when using the HDMI audio seem to output SPDIF with copy protection, which is resulting in me being unable to capture the audio. I've tried all manner of options with the VP50Pro to see if it's something related to HDCP, but no matter what I do I can't get it to work.

I've bought a couple of different HDMI audio extractors which should arrive on Friday, hopefully one of those will split it without adding in copy protection.


Technically the VP50Pro analogue to SPDIF solution would work, but it means I wouldn't be able to use 4x which was my intention.
Also for the record, I tried capturing the analogue audio directly. Holy ground loop batman, I've never heard as noisy an interface before. It's totally unusable.
I've also tried every single OSSC setting as well as some other HDMI devices, and they all do exactly the same thing. No matter what I do I don't seem to be able to get the sound card to capture the extracted HDMI audio from both the VP50Pro and the audio extractor.

Is there anything weird I can try with the OSSC?
I've already tried the three overt HDMI options and also changing the sample rate, none of those made any difference.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:57 am 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
Posts: 571
Location: Finland
CobraKing wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:
You're welcome. Might be a while before we see any FW updates as that's a major code re-write.
The deployment of new soft-CPU has gone forwards a bit, but there's still lots of things to do before it's fully integrated. The software itself doesn't require a major rewrite at it's mostly portable C code.

Besides new scanline options, there's a couple other features that need updates:
* I recently discovered some new information on Infoframe IT content bit(s), and currently enabling the menu option apparently flags the content as Graphics which may affect processing pipeline of certain displays. However, there's also 3 other categories - Photo, CInema and Game - so the option should be updated to allow selecting between these or just set enable equal to Game which should tell display to minimize picture processing and latency
* The latency tester seems to have problems with certain LCD displays. While it has worked reliably with OLED, plasma and LED-backlighted IPS screens I have, I had recently a chance to test it with other LCDs of which some had issues. For some reason the problematic displays seemed to trigger the sensor even if you held it in a black spot. I doubt backlight bleeding is the cause - it seemed more like a very narrow and intense pulse of light escapes thru the LCD cells while switching, but I'd need to confirm this with a scope. It'd fairly easy to add a glitch filter on the processing of sensor value, but it must be narrow enough not to contradict with strobe length detection for low-persistency displays.

Galdelico wrote:
On a different topic, anyone figured out the correct settings for PAL50/60 480i on the original XBOX, Nintendo GameCube and PlayStation2?
The default 576i/480i settings should be optimal for that generation of consoles, although some may need reducing H.active to e.g. 640.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:16 am 


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marqs wrote:
The default 576i/480i settings should be optimal for that generation of consoles, although some may need reducing H.active to e.g. 640.

Great, thanks! ^_-


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:55 am 


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marqs wrote:
The deployment of new soft-CPU has gone forwards a bit, but there's still lots of things to do before it's fully integrated.

Which CPU core are you switching to?


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:15 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 231
marqs wrote:
For some reason the problematic displays seemed to trigger the sensor even if you held it in a black spot. I doubt backlight bleeding is the cause - it seemed more like a very narrow and intense pulse of light escapes thru the LCD cells while switching, but I'd need to confirm this with a scope. It'd fairly easy to add a glitch filter on the processing of sensor value, but it must be narrow enough not to contradict with strobe length detection for low-persistency displays.


I think I have the same issue with my Sony LCD TV. It always triggers the sensor like you described. I can get it to work by almost completely covering up the sensor.

My Samsung LCD monitor works fine with the latency tester.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:22 pm 



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 148
@marqs

Thanks for the updates!


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:15 pm 



Joined: 24 Dec 2017
Posts: 11
Location: United States
BuckoA51 wrote:
Generally it's not scaling that adds the input lag it's processing.

Yeah, I explained that. What I was getting at was that internal post-line multiplication scaling would dramatically improve compatibility for like scaling 960p to 1080p (or even 4k). Obviously it'd be optional, but I'm wondering if marqs could implement that with a more powerful FPGA.


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:03 pm 



Joined: 12 Jul 2018
Posts: 3
Wild to see the history of this device here.

It's such a powerful thing and has changed so much for the CPS2 fighting game scenes, and really helped us engage new people and make tons of friendships and competitions happen.

Thank you. <3


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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:10 pm 


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Location: DFW area, Texas
Need clarification on something I'm not sure about:

Does the OSSC convert analog audio signals into digital for the HDMI output port, and if so, what is the bitrate format?

Edit: Never mind. It seems it does in either 96KHz or 48Khz.
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 Post subject: Re: OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:25 pm 



Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 384
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
The HDMI protocol doesn't tolerate analog audio signals, so it has to be converted into digital.


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