OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[azmun]

have you tested the PC engine+OSSC on any other display besides the ViewSonic?

Hmm, haven't done that yet but sounds like a good idea. Will try and report my findings. Thanks!

[NJRoadfan]

quick question, would these adaptors let me connect RGBS/YUV sources to the OSSC scart input?

I wanted to use the video-out on a chained PVM to line double and record gameplay. any possible dangers or failure points? (besides cable quality).

It should work if the pin-out follows whats on Wikipedia for SCART component pin assignments (which are unofficial). Just hook up sync to the composite video port.

[WMJ]

it's not really necessary for the OSSC to output analog video. a good amount of digital to analog converters are available for reasonable prices ($15 - $25 for a decent one) check my spoiler below.

Can you name one that works with the OSSC? I have an Extron 150 that can convert digital DVI to analog RGB but I can't get the OSSC to work with it for some reason on any of the scaling modes.

[Blair]

Can you name one that works with the OSSC? I have an Extron 150 that can convert digital DVI to analog RGB but I can't get the OSSC to work with it for some reason on any of the scaling modes.

Sure, here are some I've used and a few other users have tried. (check out spoilers for pics)


E-More HDV M618 - works fine, is basically a clone of the older HD Furry 2. power draw is a bit high and without its own 5v OSSC might not be able to power it alone. can also output component (YUV) video, and has digital audio output.

Spoiler

Rankie - Works great, has analogue audio output and only needs external power if using resolutions like 1080p, all the 4x resolutions and below work fine when powered by HDMI/OSSC

Spoiler

HDFury Gamer 2 - Works about as well as the Rankie, does not have component out like the older HDFury2. (thats now a separate model called the HDFury Gamer 2 Component) it's also way more expensive then most other options. but it's a quality product. (supports 1920x1200 just fine).

Spoiler

Ableconn HDMI2VGAD - i've not used one but others have reported good results, very compact. but no audio out, so you'll have to use a separate audio path (not a problem for the OSSC 1.5) also has official support for 1920x1200 resolutions.

Spoiler

HDFury Gamer 1 - i've not used one, but I assume it should perform similar to the HDFury Gamer 2, but the main difference being that it has no option for external power so it might not be able to go above line 4x mode with the power output from the OSSC. (according to user Ryoandr, HDFury Gamer 1 does not support RGB full range, watch out!)

Spoiler

Tendak Active adaptor - i've not used one, but other users here have reported good results.

Spoiler

[Hoagtech]

E-More HDV M618 - works fine, is basically a clone of the older HD Furry 2. power draw is a bit high and without its own 5v OSSC not might be able to power it alone. can also output component (YUV) video, and has digital audio output.

This DAC looks promising.

I worry about Black crush and image shake the most on these things.

I wonder how a greyscale gradient would look through that m618?

I've personally tried the Gofanko DAC and TENDAK but they both have their issues.

One important issue I still have in the DAC world is what is the measured input lag in any of them?

[Blair]

This DAC looks promising.

yeah, it's a decent choice but i'm leaning more towards the Rankie as its only $9.99, and doesn't have the same power draw issues.

I have an M618 hooked up to an nvidia shield and it looks nice outputting 1920x1200 to my crt.

but something i'm curious about, and maybe marqs can answer this. i'm not sure if wall/usb powered VGA adaptors are totally safe for the OSSC. with some I've noticed the OSSC turning on by itself even when the OSSC has no power supply of its own (completly disconnected from the mains) so that must mean the power from the adaptor is leaking back into the OSSC though it's DVI video port. could this be a grounding issue?

One important issue I still have in the DAC world is what is the measured input lag in any of them?

thats a good question, I haven't noticed any added input lag in my testing of these items. but I don't have a Leo Bodnar device to make accurate measurements. (most DACs should not add any lag as they have no framebuffers).

[Harrumph]

Can you name one that works with the OSSC? I have an Extron 150 that can convert digital DVI to analog RGB but I can't get the OSSC to work with it for some reason on any of the scaling modes.

You can also check out this thread

[ApolloBoy]

Has anyone also tried an OSSC with a PC-8801 or PC-9801? I don't see there being any problems but I thought it'd be nice to ask regardless.

*ahem*

[Dochartaigh]

I swear I already posted this question but can't find it...I preordered an OSSC - should be in the first batch in September the recent email said. I'm starting to research how to best use this device. Can anybody recommend some good tutorials on how to set it up for each of my systems? All the videos I've watched are either reviews or pros or con type videos and not which buttons to press, which settings to go into, and what is the best settings (and why) for systems like NES, SNES, Sega Genesis, PS1, PS2, Xbox, etc.

OR, is the problem that videos/tutorials like this don't exist because this is so dependent on what signal(s) your specific TV can take? It seems to be every time I find another post/article about the OSSC, it basically says how the signal is off-spec, and how tons of TV's will simply reject the signal. ...so at that point I really don't even know if the OSSC will work on my TV until I get it, right? And even if I happen to luck out and it does work on my TV, when I upgrade my TV in the future, there's no guarantee the OSSC will work on that new TV since it's not upscaling to industry-standard resolutions like 720p and 1080p, correct?

Has what I've been reading blowing this out of proportion? Or would I have been better off with one of the Framemeisters which might be more universal? (and which I just learned are discontinued and going for crazy prices on eBay right now...).

Last, I wanted to ask how the OSSC handles the overscan area. There's some funky (and REALLY annoying) stuff that goes on in the overscan area of so many systems and games. Since the image will be 4:3 displayed on our 16:9 TV's, are there settings to get rid of/crop that overscan area?

[FBX]

OR, is the problem that videos/tutorials like this don't exist because this is so dependent on what signal(s) your specific TV can take? It seems to be every time I find another post/article about the OSSC, it basically says how the signal is off-spec, and how tons of TV's will simply reject the signal. ...so at that point I really don't even know if the OSSC will work on my TV until I get it, right? And even if I happen to luck out and it does work on my TV, when I upgrade my TV in the future, there's no guarantee the OSSC will work on that new TV since it's not upscaling to industry-standard resolutions like 720p and 1080p, correct?

Yep. You have to rely on word of mouth as to what TVs play nicely with it. This is a point often lost on people that bag on the Framemeister. The OSSC is only the better choice IF it works on your TV (and I'd argue it would have to be at least 3x or 4x compatibility to really be worthwhile).

Has what I've been reading blowing this out of proportion? Or would I have been better off with one of the Framemeisters which might be more universal? (and which I just learned are discontinued and going for crazy prices on eBay right now...).

It's better to get one from Solaris Japan if possible. Ebay prices are scalpers praying upon the announcement of the discontinuation, which won't actually happen until the end of next year I believe.

[Ryoandr]

snip

Just FYI, I have the HDFury gamer, the one with vga out only and no power, it doesn't support full color range (0-255), alternating black-white screen will cause some "white pumping" similar to TVs with bad high voltage regulation.
By comparison, the ultra cheap hdmi to vga adaptor I got later does support full range (and hdcp too, to my surprise)

[Blair]

thanks Ryoandr, I just updated my post with your info.

Another update, on 480p line 2x mode. and 240p line 4x on my samsung tv, as posted before the quality of these modes have not been great on this particular model (Samsung LN40C63, 2010 version) (240p 2x and 3x work fine, as does 480i passthrough) but after doing some tests with HDMI to VGA adapters i've found that all the problems (ringing) I was experiencing with HDMI on 480p line 2x mode. and 240p line 4x, are gone if I use the VGA port.

here are some pics. (https://imgur.com/a/nGguG)

Spoiler

Spoiler

So if your TV has some compatibility issues with the OSSC, it might be worth testing out the analogue ports. especially if you have an older HDTV with a VGA port. (5x still did not work on this TV, even using the VGA port).

(my TV liked the Rankie best out of the DACs I tried).

[marqs]

Has anyone also tried an OSSC with a PC-8801 or PC-9801? I don't see there being any problems but I thought it'd be nice to ask regardless.

*ahem*

I've tested PC-9801 and it works if display supports 640x400 (or line2x 1280x800) @ 56.4Hz.. Check optimal timings wikipage for best settings.

but something i'm curious about, and maybe marqs can answer this. i'm not sure if wall/usb powered VGA adaptors are totally safe for the OSSC. with some I've noticed the OSSC turning on by itself even when the OSSC has no power supply of its own (completly disconnected from the mains) so that must mean the power from the adaptor is leaking back into the OSSC though it's DVI video port. could this be a grounding issue?

It sounds like those adapters incorrectly connect DDC5V line back to source. Maybe the idea is that they could be alternatively powered via DVI/HDMI, but they should include a switch in that case. If you experience interference or are worried about connecting separate 5V power rails together, you can desolder fuse F2 which disables DDC5V output (but then it may not get detected by some DVI/HDMI displays).

[azmun]

I'm starting to research how to best use this device. Can anybody recommend some good tutorials on how to set it up for each of my systems? All the videos I've watched are either reviews or pros or con type videos and not which buttons to press, which settings to go into, and what is the best settings (and why) for systems like NES, SNES, Sega Genesis, PS1, PS2, Xbox, etc.

Got mine about a week ago and had to figure it out by myself. I did no prior reading or research. Initially, I thought my unit was busted or incompatible. But after few hours of tinkering and testing with difference consoles and televisions, I got the test pattern to work. That was some progress and relief. Eventually, got the sounds to come out, but still no images. Running out of options, I decided to press all the buttons on the remote one by one. Bingo, got an image on the screen! I neglected to press a basic input command (#1 on the remote) to activate AV1. If you haven't already done so or as a future reference, I suggest you look into the PDF quick start guide in the introduction section of this link:

http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=OSSC

As to which setting is best for the different consoles you have? It depends on your preferences and may involve trade-offs between performance (i.e. lag) and image quality. I still can't get my PC Engine (via dbgrafx booster) to work with OSSC. But my Famicom, Genesis 3 (sucks to have mono sound coming out of only one speaker, perhaps future firmware can fix that), Super Famicom and PlayStation 2 all work really well except for the occasional drop or interruption in signal.

Currently, I use my consoles exclusively on a 15" PC CRT monitor via a generic digital to analog converter. By the way, be careful in choosing these devices as some don't work at all, having compatibility or color issues. Basically, two concerns prompted me to choose this setup. While I was able to output beautiful videos on our 40" 4k television, I didn't appreciate the pillarboxes and worst, I couldn't tolerate the lag. So I'm pretty content gaming on a relatively small but crisp, sharp and responsive 4:3 monitor (sitting just few feet away).

If I may speak for myself. OSSC is the greatest thing to happen to my retro gaming world (besides flashcarts and controller adapters). I get to experience virtually all my games like never before. My investment in an nesrgb mod has paid an even more handsome dividend. I have my FC, MD, SFC and PS (240p games) linedoubled to 480p and add 50% scanlines. The only thing that isn't so impressive is 480i (PS2) games converted to 480p. For some reason, games in general don't look as nice/sharp even with scanlines added. For PS2 games, what works really well for me is to identify software with progressive scan capabilities (there is quite a healthy list) and to apply the 480p passthru mode.

Lastly, I am still waiting for my HD Retrovision component cables to arrive. This will hopefully allow to me run Sega Saturn and finally PC Engine games via OSSC.

[pyrotek85]

Honestly for me the OSSC has practically been plug and play, barely any adjustment at all. Just need to adjust whether it's x2 x3 x4 etc, and of course select the correct input. I've got my systems all connected through an Extron Crosspoint matrix switch, so it's only a few button presses to get whichever system I want working.

Only thing I'd have liked is if it took S-Video as an input. Until I can find a way to RGB mod my 3DO, I'll still need the framemeister for that.

[Dochartaigh]

Thanks for the input you two - appreciated. I'm running only the mainstream consoles: NES, SNES, Sega Genesis, PS1/PS2, original Xbox (everything else newer does 720p/1080p via HDMI) so I would hope it would run with those.

azmum, PS2 never had scanlines for the majority of games (most 480i). I would have tried scanlines as well if it wasn't coming out nice as they sometimes make the older games just look better IMO.

pyrotek85, glad to hear you don't have any problems with an Extron Crosspoint which is what I'm routing all my RGB through. Since you have both the OSSC and the Framemeister, which do you prefer, and why?

[Blair]

I've seen a few users mention that ps2 games look best with the OSSC alternating (moving) scanlines mode. but that's subjective to taste. If I'm playing on an LCD I usually use the 480i pass through instead of the ossc's bob deinterlacing, as most displays and video processors produce a fairly decent de-interlaced image with 480i content (majority of the PS2 library is interlaced video). if I'm playing on a high-resolution CRT i'll usually tell the PS2 to output in 960i or 1080i. and that provides a very sharp pleasing interlaced image. (with no added processing lag).

something else to think about is your tolerance for underscan/overscan, frame Meister gives you the ability to size the video image horizontally and vertically, while OSSC displays a 1:1 of whatever the game system is outputting. it depends on the system, usually goes on a game by game basis but you might get some black or colored borders on the top and sides of your games (depending on the line output mode you choose) even if your display has decent aspect ratio controls. (here's an image of what that might look like)

Spoiler

the OSSC can mask the underscan area to get rid of the distracting borders, so that's not really a big deal. but it is something to consider.

but I usually pair the OSSC with an additional video processor to give me better aspect ratio and zoom controls, so I can get the underscan/overscan suited to my tastes. (I know some displays allow you to resize the image. I don't know what the availability of that feature is like on different monitor/display brands though)

[azmun]

Hmm, I should have made more explicit 480i (PS2) games which warrant scanlines are those that were originally low-res. These are usually the compilations or collections of older games made in the 80s and 90s. I totally agree with Dochartaigh that for the majority of PS2 480i games, scanlines make no sense.

The difference between horizontal and alternating scanlines are not so obvious in my current (CRT) setup, but I do recall a more noticeable change when testing on LCD screen.

[Dochartaigh]

sframe Meister gives you the ability to size the video image horizontally and vertically, while OSSC displays a 1:1 of whatever the game system is outputting. it depends on the system, usually goes on a game by game basis but you might get some black or colored borders on the top and sides of your games

the OSSC can mask the underscan area to get rid of the distracting borders, so that's not really a big deal. but it is something to consider.

So wait....can the OSSC crop that overscan area? Or is it 1:1 (with all overscan), so it would have all that crap on the sides?

I REALLY hope the OSSC can crop all that dirt on the sides of the image which is normally hidden in the overscan area - or that would be a deal breaker most definitely. Like put up for sale the same day lol. I've sold PVM-type monitors which don't allow me to hide that area...

I ordered a Framemeister last night so I'm glad that has settings to adjust the overscan. This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine...

[Guspaz]

Most TVs provide their own zooming functionality. Sometimes they're not enough to fully zoom in as much as you'd like (so maybe you're not going to take a GBA game and fill the screen), but often they're enough to hide whatever would normally have been in overscan.

[Blair]

So wait....can the OSSC crop that overscan area? Or is it 1:1 (with all overscan), so it would have all that crap on the sides?

I REALLY hope the OSSC can crop all that dirt on the sides of the image which is normally hidden in the overscan area - or that would be a deal breaker most definitely. Like put up for sale the same day lol. I've sold PVM-type monitors which don't allow me to hide that area...

I ordered a Framemeister last night so I'm glad that has settings to adjust the overscan. This is a HUGE pet peeve of mine...

yes, the OSSC can mask the extra overscan areas in black so you don't have to see them. overall it's not a very hard problem to fix. You will probably have to get familiar with how your display handles underscan at various resolutions though. (for instance my Samsung has no visible underscan area in line 2x or 3x mode, but in line 4x, I get the full underscan border visible, however in line 5x most of the time it has its own overscan cropping so you Won't see borders with that mode probably ever)

don't worry too much until you played around a bit, I'm pretty confident you'll be able to make the necessary adjustments to give yourself a very pleasing image for any situation. I only mentioned it because it is another setting you will probably have to become familiar with. (I've never had any troubles with getting rid of underscan on my OSSC set up).

Spoiler

also check out my, line 5x direct footage, as you can see no annoying borders at all

Spoiler

OSSC+SEGA CDX direct line5x

Link:(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDgaCFdvq_w)

OSSC+SEGA CDX direct line5x

Link:(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B3df7KgmcU)

if you're getting both an OSSC and a frameMeister, if you can afford it I would keep them both. as they both have abilities unique to one another. the OSSC can do things the frameMeister can't and vice versa.

[pyrotek85]

Thanks for the input you two - appreciated. I'm running only the mainstream consoles: NES, SNES, Sega Genesis, PS1/PS2, original Xbox (everything else newer does 720p/1080p via HDMI) so I would hope it would run with those.

In addition to what you listed, it's also working well with my N64, Saturn and PC Engine Duo-R. Dreamcast too, but that's also using the Hanzo vga box. Only one that doesn't work is the aforementioned 3DO, duo to the S-Video output, I assume it would if/when I can get an RGB mod for it. Oh and the Sega CD/32X addons work too of course, since they're fed through the Genesis.

pyrotek85, glad to hear you don't have any problems with an Extron Crosspoint which is what I'm routing all my RGB through. Since you have both the OSSC and the Framemeister, which do you prefer, and why?

The Crosspoint is great, decided to go with that since it can handle any analog signal (like component), instead of just a scart switch. I think I like the OSSC more, it seems like the Framemeister required a little more fussing with some systems to look right.

[Blair]

@pyrotek85

Sony made some fairly decent S-video to RGB converters from what I've heard (I don't believe they do any scaling or de-interlacing. just straight conversion), I've never personally used one but that might be just the ticket to get your 3DO and the OSSC working together, without having to modify your system. Although still might want to get the 240p output mod, as 3DO only does 480i out of the box.

[pyrotek85]

@pyrotek85

Sony made some fairly decent S-video to RGB converters from what I've heard (I don't believe they do any scaling or de-interlacing. just straight conversion), I've never personally used one but that might be just the ticket to get your 3DO and the OSSC working together, without having to modify your system. Although still might want to get you 3DO the 240p output mod as it only does 480i out of the box.

Thanks, but I'll probably just stick with the Framemeister for transcoding for now. It's not that it's bad at it or anything, I'd just rather feed everything through the OSSC and not require a second device.

[citrus3000psi]

Honestly for me the OSSC has practically been plug and play, barely any adjustment at all. Just need to adjust whether it's x2 x3 x4 etc, and of course select the correct input. I've got my systems all connected through an Extron Crosspoint matrix switch, so it's only a few button presses to get whichever system I want working.

Only thing I'd have liked is if it took S-Video as an input. Until I can find a way to RGB mod my 3DO, I'll still need the framemeister for that.

I don't think they sell rgb anymore for the 3DO. I have the original schematics to the design somewhere if you want them.

[pyrotek85]

Honestly for me the OSSC has practically been plug and play, barely any adjustment at all. Just need to adjust whether it's x2 x3 x4 etc, and of course select the correct input. I've got my systems all connected through an Extron Crosspoint matrix switch, so it's only a few button presses to get whichever system I want working.

Only thing I'd have liked is if it took S-Video as an input. Until I can find a way to RGB mod my 3DO, I'll still need the framemeister for that.

I don't think they sell rgb anymore for the 3DO. I have the original schematics to the design somewhere if you want them.

Yeah I'm aware that no one does at the moment, I'm hoping in the future someone will. I appreciate the offer of the schematics, but I wouldn't know the first thing about actually implementing it, but thanks.

[Blair]

It sounds like those adapters incorrectly connect DDC5V line back to source. Maybe the idea is that they could be alternatively powered via DVI/HDMI, but they should include a switch in that case. If you experience interference or are worried about connecting separate 5V power rails together, you can desolder fuse F2 which disables DDC5V output (but then it may not get detected by some DVI/HDMI displays).

thanks for the info marqs, I'll keep that in mind.

[CobraKing]

It sounds like those adapters incorrectly connect DDC5V line back to source. Maybe the idea is that they could be alternatively powered via DVI/HDMI, but they should include a switch in that case. If you experience interference or are worried about connecting separate 5V power rails together, you can desolder fuse F2 which disables DDC5V output (but then it may not get detected by some DVI/HDMI displays).

thanks for the info marqs, I'll keep that in mind.

@Blair, did the Rankie HDMI->VGA adapter when used with the supplied micro USB 5V also exhibit the voltage issues that you noticed?

My 6 year old 40" Sony LCD does a great job with the OSSC's Line 2X but won't accept 3X-5X via HDMI. It does have a VGA port though and the Rankie device is cheap enough that I don't mind taking the loss if the TV still won't display the OSSC's 3X-5X.

Just don't want to kill the OSSC by supplying it with too much voltage though.

[BuckoA51]

I don't think they sell rgb anymore for the 3DO. I have the original schematics to the design somewhere if you want them.

I'd be interested in getting this back into production if it's an open design.

[citrus3000psi]

I don't think they sell rgb anymore for the 3DO. I have the original schematics to the design somewhere if you want them.

I'd be interested in getting this back into production if it's an open design.

Someone by the name of Markus from germany did the work.

His documents:
http://www.greatlakesvista.com/rgb/3do/rgb_3do.zip

Since he created this doc, I'm assuming its an open source. But nothing was ever officially stated.