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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:41 am 


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Joined: 02 Dec 2013
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Location: Spain
Really happy with the results. No imperfections and all the scanlines are perfect in line X2 or X3.
Is not good cut so much to the size but anyway is enough for me and playing in the vewlix the distance from the image to me is really near. More or less are 22" in 4/3 from the 32" 16/9.
Not bad deal if can play in so good conditions to all retro games.

Tomorrow I will test it in the jvc 1080 projector. I think is going to be gorgeous. Will post some pics

Thank you very much

I have found very usefull the pics of Blair and setings from his vp50.
Thanks a lot !


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:48 am 


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There is a thread at videogameperfection for this type of thing, just a shame people haven't used it much. Maybe you can add your findings there too?
https://www.videogameperfection.com/for ... p3050edge/
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:18 am 


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Location: Finland
Fudoh wrote:
yes, definitely a 768p panel. If you set the OSSC to 480p and let the DVDO handle the upscaling from 480p to 768p it will probably look better than 720p to 768p and that's as good as it will get on this kind of panel. It's far from perfect, but as you have noticed yourself 768p just doesn't offer enough resolution to allow any better upscaling.

One thing you can try is to enable the underscan option on the DVDO and try if you can display the OSSC's 720p inside a 768p frame. There's no way to get it right automatically, but maybe you find a % value using the underscan option that gives you a pretty close 720p hit.

PS: since you tried various 768p resolutions: 1360*768 is the right one, since it gives you a horizontal 1:1 mapping as well, so your display won't do anymore scaling.
If DVDO supports reduced blanking, it's also possible to set OSSC to 1280x768 output by setting V. backporch to around 1 and V. active to 256.
Xer Xian wrote:
Whoa, I never thought line5x could be achieved, you are really squeezing the heck out of that little box! :o
Say, how will scanlines be rendered in line4x/5x? I mean, every other line is blackened in line2x, while in 3x, it's every third line - will this pattern continue for bigger multiples?
Line4x masks 2 out 4 output scanlines (per input scanline), and line5x 2 out of 5. There has been also discussion about masking an extra scanline in line3x/5x with half intensity to get 50:50 look in those modes as well.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:09 pm 



Joined: 22 Dec 2010
Posts: 204
marqs wrote:
There has been also discussion about masking an extra scanline in line3x/5x with half intensity to get 50:50 look in those modes as well.


I'm not a big fan of the 50:50 look, reminds me of a BVM. I know a lot of people love the BVM look with big thick scanlines but if like me you prefer a lower TVL monitor where the active lines tend to overlap the blank lines a little more than 50:50 then that is closer to how line3x is now IMHO.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:52 pm 


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Posts: 114
Location: Spain
Difficult take good pics from the iPhone in the dark projection room.
Is awesome. Believe me. The OSSC in 2X or 3x + dvdo is a superb combo. (Plus JVC HD100)

Playing 240p titles in 80" is something cool and comfortable with this image quality


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:01 pm 


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marqs wrote:
Line4x masks 2 out 4 output scanlines (per input scanline), and line5x 2 out of 5. There has been also discussion about masking an extra scanline in line3x/5x with half intensity to get 50:50 look in those modes as well.

BTW I think we've talked about that quite some time ago but I've forgot: there'll be enough room for some rudimentary grille and mask effects, so... any luck for that ?
Can't say I'm enthusiast for filters à la 2xSaI or HQ2x...
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:18 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 254
marqs wrote:
There has been also discussion about masking an extra scanline in line3x/5x with half intensity to get 50:50 look in those modes as well.


I was thinking that the extra scanline intensity would be adjustable so that we can fine-tune the scanline thickness.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:21 pm 


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Joined: 15 Dec 2012
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Location: Finland
Firmware 0.76 is finally out now:

* Line4x and Line5x implemented
* 960i and 1080i support added
* Dedicated line multiplication settings for each mode group
* Passthru option added for all mode groups
* 4:3 / 8:7 aspect selection for 256x240 mode
* Overlay mask placement fixed
* Mask brightness control added
* Fixed phase shift issue on optimized modes
* Increased IR receiver tolerance

That's quite big list of updates, including fixes for a few persistent issues and implementations for some long-awaited features. There are still things to improve, but limitations of the hardware are getting close so future updates are likely to be smaller and less frequent.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:53 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 2241
Some initial impressions...

For the DVDO VP50, 240p passthrough does not work. Unsurprisingly 4x doesn't work for 240p any more than 2x did for 480p. 5x however seems to work.

For the XRGB-mini, 240p passthrough works and 4x works. I had issues with 5x, but might be my cable.

I have to test if there are any image quality improvements using 5x for the DVDO VP50 and 240p passthrough for the XRGB-mini. I know there should be in theory.

Mask brightness control is great, but can you make it go brighter? 15 (the highest) corresponds to "low" on my TV and I'm sure "medium" and "high" are there for a reason.


Last edited by ZellSF on Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:56 pm 


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Joined: 26 Oct 2012
Posts: 558
Location: Germany
So... here's what my SNES looks in Line5x mode. Wow.

Image

With Line4x added for 240p signals and Line2x available for 480p signals, I'll have to ask yet again: Is a Line4x mode for 480i signals possible?


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:24 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 2241
DVDO VP50 3x:
https://i.cubeupload.com/1KM5DD.png
As you except, some ringing.

DVDO VP50 5x:
https://i.cubeupload.com/mNxYlq.png
Just showing the clearly reduced ringing. It cuts off some of the game vertically though, but not more than the 10% overscan most of these games were made for.

DVDO VP50 5x 256x240 optimized:
https://i.cubeupload.com/XcH2eF.png
That looks so very close to perfect you wouldn't believe a scaler meant for video was involved in the process. It can probably look a tad better too by disabling the artificial sharpening (the VP50 was as its default non-neutral "1" setting for these captures) and tweaking LPF settings.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:40 pm 



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 403
Location: The hood
I can't wait to try this.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:42 pm 


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@Galdelico; you'll have to shoot some more pictures. :mrgreen:
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:02 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 2241
Sample rate is still finicky as hell, are there dedicated remote buttons for adjusting it in this firmware?


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:27 pm 


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Location: Bedfordshire, England.
Are Line4x and Line5x modes as picky as Line3x on LCD TVs??


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:27 pm 


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Posts: 687
Is the only way to purchase one still through the mailing list?


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:38 pm 


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Quote:
For the DVDO VP50, 240p passthrough does not work. Unsurprisingly 4x doesn't work for 240p any more than 2x did for 480p. 5x however seems to work.


Interesting, on my 50 Pro 240p passthrough worked but 4x and 5x didn't work at all. That was on the beta firmware though, I'll flash to release and try again.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:43 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 254
Thanks Marqs. Its really appreciated! SNES in 1080p pixel perfect looks ridiculously sharp :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:10 pm 



Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 2241
BuckoA51 wrote:
Quote:
For the DVDO VP50, 240p passthrough does not work. Unsurprisingly 4x doesn't work for 240p any more than 2x did for 480p. 5x however seems to work.


Interesting, on my 50 Pro 240p passthrough worked but 4x and 5x didn't work at all. That was on the beta firmware though, I'll flash to release and try again.

Did you remember to disable cadence detection? It's still a per resolution setting that does not get along with the OSSC.
lettuce wrote:
Are Line4x and Line5x modes as picky as Line3x on LCD TVs??

Guessing this is really going to be a YMMV situation. My TV tries (and fails) to sync at 3x, but doesn't even attempt 4x or 5x.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:46 pm 


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marqs wrote:
* 960i and 1080i support added


Just wanted to highlight this---it means the large number of PS2 games which can't be forced directly to 480p using GSM now can be played progressive (in linedoubled 480p =1280x960p). Select the (incorrectly-named) GSM mode "VGA 640x480i" (in fact it's 960i) and ensure the OSSC is set to RGsB input. Also make sure the scanlines are set to non-alternating mode and you'll get a flicker-free, true 480-line image. Best viewed at native res inside a 1080p frame without scaling to fullscreen, e.g. using a DVDO or XPC-4 processor between the OSSC and display.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:04 pm 


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Quote:
Did you remember to disable cadence detection? It's still a per resolution setting that does not get along with the OSSC.


Yeah cadence detection should always be off for games. Sadly I can confirm my earlier findings line x5 isn't compatible with the 50 Pro.
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:24 pm 



Joined: 08 Apr 2011
Posts: 84
Well the new firmware fixes a big problem I had. Before the new firmware my OSCC and my new samsung 4k ks8000 would not accept any signal at all through the OSCC. Now with 0.76 if I use the passthrough option for all settings it works absolutely perfect.

I used to have to use my dvdo to get a pic but now this will cut the lag down hopefully and there is another device removed from the chain.

So anyone with a samsung set the oscc to passthrough and use dvi in the oscc setting and it works.
The samsung sees the signal as 1440x240p.
weird


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:28 pm 


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Hardly worth using an OSSC if you're going to pass through 240p though... so that TV accepts no signal from OSSC but accepts 240p over HDMI... you have to wonder what Samsung's engineers were smoking...
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:30 pm 


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The OSSC keeps on giving! I look forward to try out the new features tomorrow. Huge thanks for the great job Marqs (and beta-testers as well) :o

Raw Line4x and 5 will likely be a no-go for tv-sets, but according to what Marqs said earlier, for Line 5x there should be an option to display the picture inside a 1080p frame (if I understood correctly):

Quote:
Line5x allows setting output format to 1920x1080, 1600x1200 or 1920x1200 to make it usable in various configurations, while Line4x output is fixed to 1280x960.


This should make the output much more tv-friendly, bar for consoles with non-standard refresh rates.. I still don't get how you can 'embed' ~1200 horizontal lines into a 1080p frame though.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:51 pm 



Joined: 08 Apr 2011
Posts: 84
Well the ks8000 only has hdmi inputs so it is worth using if you want a pic.



BuckoA51 wrote:
Hardly worth using an OSSC if you're going to pass through 240p though... so that TV accepts no signal from OSSC but accepts 240p over HDMI... you have to wonder what Samsung's engineers were smoking...


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:15 am 


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So I tried the LineX4 and X5 modes on my Vizio 4K D series 65" and it wasn't compatible on HDMI 5. This is the ultra low lag port as it doesn't go through the TV's scaler and can do 4K/60@4:2:0. On a hunch I put the OSSC into HDMI 4 and lo and behold everything works. LineX4 and X5 work flawlessly. I never really tested out the Vizio's scaler but it's far better than I thought. I can make the screen larger or smaller, change position and other various options. Also much to my delight the 480x2 does work for Dreamcast and the TV displays it as 1280 x 960.

Only downside is that I'm no longer on the "fast" input of HDMI 5 which is rated 13ms. Still with 5X mode and various other options now available to me, I find that the OSSC is truly an incredible product. Paired with a "cheap" Vizio 4K D series the results are simply astonishing.

One final thing, using the Dreamcast on AV3 I'm no longer getting an image when the output is set to "DTV". I have to keep it on Auto or VESA 640 x 480 in order to get an image. On the previous firmware DTV worked fine. Has anyone else tried this out?
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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:41 am 


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This was unexpected. My projector does not handle 240x3 or 480x2... But it is perfectly happy with 240x4 on SNES/NES/PSX/GBI-LL

Furthermore, GBI-ULL was previously incompatible with my projector via the OSSC: it did not and still does not work with 2x or 3x, which used to be the only options. But my projector DOES sync to GBI-ULL with passthru and 4x! Everything that I've tested so far has worked with 4x, although 4x scanlines are ugly (uneven).

So basically this firmware has, for me, improved the sharpness of my image (by going from 2x to 4x), and increased compatibility by letting me use GBI-ULL. Sweet!


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:45 am 


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wildchild22 wrote:
Well the ks8000 only has hdmi inputs so it is worth using if you want a pic.



BuckoA51 wrote:
Hardly worth using an OSSC if you're going to pass through 240p though... so that TV accepts no signal from OSSC but accepts 240p over HDMI... you have to wonder what Samsung's engineers were smoking...


You could have gotten a $30 HDMI converter that did the exact same thing though if all you're doing with the OSSC is using pass-through mode.


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:38 am 


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Guspaz wrote:
This was unexpected. My projector does not handle 240x3 or 480x2... But it is perfectly happy with 240x4 on SNES/NES/PSX/GBI-LL

Furthermore, GBI-ULL was previously incompatible with my projector via the OSSC: it did not and still does not work with 2x or 3x, which used to be the only options. But my projector DOES sync to GBI-ULL with passthru and 4x! Everything that I've tested so far has worked with 4x, although 4x scanlines are ugly (uneven).

So basically this firmware has, for me, improved the sharpness of my image (by going from 2x to 4x), and increased compatibility by letting me use GBI-ULL. Sweet!

Sounds like a valid reason to test all displays for 4x and 5x compatibility, where 3x isn't compatible with that display. Be a handy inclusion in the VGP forum's compatability list.

I also have a question about DVI over HDMI. I was playing around with the OSSC's DVI/HDMI setting on my second TV, a POS Palsonic plasma from 2007. Turns out that the TV accepts DVI over HDMI. Didn't think much of this until I noticed that where the HDMI signal is stretched and takes up the full height of the screen, the DVI signal is letterboxed.

Does this mean that the TV is picking up additional information that it ignores over HDMI? If so, would this not be a possible way of uncovering compatability with line 3x, 4x and 5x, when the HDMI signal is not compatible with these modes on certain displays? IE, retest incompatible sets with the TX option set to DVI?


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 Post subject: Re: DIY video digitizer & scandoubler
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:49 am 


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bonzo.bits wrote:
Turns out that the TV accepts DVI over HDMI.

I think it would violate the HDMI specs if it would refuse a DVI signal on an HDMI input.

Quote:
Didn't think much of this until I noticed that where the HDMI signal is stretched and takes up the full height of the screen, the DVI signal is letterboxed.

It probably assumes that a DVI signal comes from a computer and doesn't scale the image to the full height to avoid fuzzy text. Or maybe it instead tries to preserve a 1:1 pixel aspect ratio for computer sources.

Quote:
Does this mean that the TV is picking up additional information that it ignores over HDMI?

There is no additional information in DVI that it could pick up - if you remove all additional information transmitted in an HDMI signal, you end up with a DVI signal.


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