Do HD CRT TVs lag? Recommended CRTs?

[Carmen]

I hope this isn't an extremely obvious question but I am a little lost here.

I've recently been looking for a CRT for games. I recently got an offer for a 29" Toshiba but the monitor is HD (an HD CRT). I've been looking online and I can't find any definitive info... do HD CRTs lag? A lot of people seem to recommend them though I would imagine upscaling to HD would cause input lag. For the record I play 2DX and shooters, so I'm pretty sensative to this sort of thing. I'm also concerned that HD would cause older consoles to look bad, can anyone help shine some info on this? I'm playing mainly SFC and third generation stuff (SS, PS1, N64). The newest console I play is PS2 so I have no need for HD capabilities...

I do remember encountering one CRT at my previous apt. which did in fact noticibly lag... why this was I don't know.

Also, if anyone can throw some recommmended models (SD or HD CRTs), please let me know. I'm not looking into RGB, S-video is fine for me, but for some reason finding a SDTV CRT with S-video is proving more annoying than it should be... (hence the above question)

[Galgomite]

Yes, CRT HDTVs will have varying amounts of lag and older consoles will look bad. If you're playing SD game systems (NES through PS1/N64), your best choice is a standard def CRT with component inputs. My TV of choice is a flat Sony Wega CRT, easy to find on craigslist (mine was free). Every system that can do 480p and up (Xbox, Gamecube/Wii, usually PS2) is probably better played on a low-lag HDTV, since they will look good in HD and 3D games are more forgiving of lag IMO.

[Carmen]

Thanks for the quick reply, I figured this was the case. If you (and anyone else) can throw up the model number of SDTVs you own, that would be much appreciated (I see there are both Sony Wega HD and SD models, for example). Back in the States its not a problem but for some reason over here finding a CRT that is both SD *and* has S-video is actually very difficult for some reason. And no way I'm going back to composite... So model numbers might make it easier to track down stuff without having to explain what S-video is to everyone

Also, is there a very quick way to tell if a CRT is HD or not without having to plug in a games console, play for a bit and see if there is lag or not? Like is there some tell-tale sign given the lack of a sticker or something telling me otherwise?

[bobrocks95]

For Trinitrons, if it's a "Hi-Scan" or "Super Fine Pitch" model, it's an HD CRT (though I'm unsure if the Hi-Scan models all have a digital chassis).

Full list of models here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron/WEGA

The best SD consumer Trinitron is the KV-27/32/36FV310 (27, 32, and 36 are the screen sizes).

[BazookaBen]

I guess your best option would be to research what CRT's were most common in China in the late 90's and early 00's. Maybe they used D-terminal?

[matrigs]

Also, is there a very quick way to tell if a CRT is HD or not without having to plug in a games console, play for a bit and see if there is lag or not? Like is there some tell-tale sign given the lack of a sticker or something telling me otherwise?

If a TV has some Hi-Def able inputs like Component or VGA, there's a good chance that it's HD.

There is often a sticker / mark on TVs that says "100 Hz" which you definitely want to avoid.

Also i haven't really seen any HD TVs that are non-flat. So a curved screen might be safe bet.

Besides that you should rather do it the other way around - look what's availlable to you and then search google for a manual / chassis number of the TV and see if it's HD or SD.

[Ed Oscuro]

Component on a TV isn't a big sign, in the US anyway, that it's HD. HD sets almost always will have component inputs, but sets with component inputs will rarely be HD, especially due to demand for better output from DVD players (which are almost always doing 480i).

[nyder]

Component on a TV isn't a big sign, in the US anyway, that it's HD. HD sets almost always will have component inputs, but sets with component inputs will rarely be HD, especially due to demand for better output from DVD players (which are almost always doing 480i).

+1

I've had loads of SD sets with component inputs that didn't even do 480p/progressive scan.

I see lots of 16x9 Toshiba HD sets for free or close to free on CL here, they look cool but pretty sure they suck for gaming.

Nyd

[creamygarlicdip]

I just got a sony Kv30hs420 off of craigslist recently. its a 16:9 crt, does 480p and 1080i. But 4:3 gaming doesn't look right on it. The 4:3 mode doesn't handle my ps1 very well, the aspect ratio is off, a bit too narrow. I tried various zooms to no avail.

its great for my wii at 16:9, 480p but thats about it. i didn't perceive any lag but maybe there is i can't tell.

[matrigs]

Component on a TV isn't a big sign, in the US anyway, that it's HD. HD sets almost always will have component inputs, but sets with component inputs will rarely be HD, especially due to demand for better output from DVD players (which are almost always doing 480i).

Yes you're right.

Pardon me but i always think about the European market when posting things like this.

[Sid]

I have several Sony HD CRTs and they are things of beauty, but I would not use them for anything 4:3 ratio. As others have suggested researching what IS available will make more sense than searching for a particular model that you may never find.

Also I agree that while comonent input may signify era, and possibly suggest quality, it will not mean it's an HD display.

[Ed Oscuro]

Pardon me but i always think about the European market when posting things like this.

The weird mix of sets and standards known to exist in China may make all these comments useful...I don't know how many members we have who have visibility into the domestic Chinese tube population, and the ones who do don't share much

[Carmen]

Well I finally managed to get lucky and get one... but it sure did take a while. From everything sellers told me, it seems S-video was never very big here, and when it was finally introduced it was more or less the time HD screens came into fashion. So the number of domestically produced TVs with S-video are just very low, at least from my understanding. That said I wish I had been able to find an import set, the picture on this TV is OK... but the colours are not quite as vibrant as my Toshiba in the States. Hopefully some fooling around in the service menu will help fix that!

I couldn't find any information on D-terminals, the only inputs in older TVs that I've seen are composite (TV here runs through cable boxes which connect with composite RCA or other hookups, I haven't seen any coaxial ports like I remember in TVs in the States).

For the record my SDTV in the States also has Component ports

Thanks everyone for thier help!!

[nyder]

Well I finally managed to get lucky and get one... but it sure did take a while. From everything sellers told me, it seems S-video was never very big here, and when it was finally introduced it was more or less the time HD screens came into fashion. So the number of domestically produced TVs with S-video are just very low, at least from my understanding. That said I wish I had been able to find an import set, the picture on this TV is OK... but the colours are not quite as vibrant as my Toshiba in the States. Hopefully some fooling around in the service menu will help fix that!

I couldn't find any information on D-terminals, the only inputs in older TVs that I've seen are composite (TV here runs through cable boxes which connect with composite RCA or other hookups, I haven't seen any coaxial ports like I remember in TVs in the States).

For the record my SDTV in the States also has Component ports

Thanks everyone for thier help!!

It seems the rarest type of CRT tube here in North America is a progressive scan CRT. Not quite HD, but offering component and progressive scan/480P along with the other SD resolutions.

I think they were only made during a small window of time.

Anyone have any model numbers that are 480P.

Nyd

[andy251203]

It seems the rarest type of CRT tube here in North America is a progressive scan CRT. Not quite HD, but offering component and progressive scan/480P along with the other SD resolutions.

I think they were only made during a small window of time.

Anyone have any model numbers that are 480P.

Nyd

What you're thinking of are "EDTV" sets. These came out at the heyday of HDTV as a cheaper alternative to true HDTVs. EDTV was just a marketing term for 480p TVs. These of course will still lag on 480i signals since everything gets upscaled to 480p.

[bobrocks95]

We had good sized EDTV plasmas, tiny EDTV LCDs, and Hi-Scan Trinitrons (which I believe have the horizontal resolution for EDTV).

I vouch for EDTVs highly, my plasma is awesome for 480p content.

[Ed Oscuro]

S-video

S-Video isn't component (it's another form of composite video), so what did the TV you found have?

These came out at the heyday of HDTV

"Heyday" means the greatest period. EDTV came out at the very beginnings of the HDTV era, and arguably a bit before, in case anybody was confused by this.

[nyder]

[/quote]What you're thinking of are "EDTV" sets. These came out at the heyday of HDTV as a cheaper alternative to true HDTVs. EDTV was just a marketing term for 480p TVs. These of course will still lag on 480i signals since everything gets upscaled to 480p.[/quote]

I figured those "progressive scan" tv's were probably processing the image heavily. Glad I never found one and ended up with a multisync PVM for my 480p content.

Nyd

[Lord of Pirates]

Well I finally managed to get lucky and get one... but it sure did take a while. From everything sellers told me, it seems S-video was never very big here, and when it was finally introduced it was more or less the time HD screens came into fashion. So the number of domestically produced TVs with S-video are just very low, at least from my understanding. That said I wish I had been able to find an import set, the picture on this TV is OK... but the colours are not quite as vibrant as my Toshiba in the States. Hopefully some fooling around in the service menu will help fix that!

I couldn't find any information on D-terminals, the only inputs in older TVs that I've seen are composite (TV here runs through cable boxes which connect with composite RCA or other hookups, I haven't seen any coaxial ports like I remember in TVs in the States).

For the record my SDTV in the States also has Component ports

Thanks everyone for thier help!!

D-Terminal is Japan only as far as I know, it's probably unlikely that you'll see a TV/monitor with a DT input outside Japan.

[nyder]

Is D-terminal still the primary video connection there or has Japan moved to HDMI as well?

Nyd

[bobrocks95]

The PS4 only has HDMI output in all regions, so I'd assume they made the switch (isn't D-terminal analog anyways?)

[nyder]

The PS4 only has HDMI output in all regions, so I'd assume they made the switch (isn't D-terminal analog anyways?)

Yeah, did some reading, correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like component with a streamlined connector.

Nyd

[chronicdog]

My feeling is that HD CRTs are the best for 480P consoles like the original Xbox, PS2, Gamecube and Wii. They arent really made to be displayed on a 42" LCD and tend to look weird on there, too pixelated. In terms of classic console SD content on them, Im of mixed emotion, but Id like to hear what you guys say. I dont mind it so much, its not 1:1 pixel mapping like a proper SD set and there arent scanlines, so its not a purist experience. You may as well be on a plasma. But my SNES fills the 4:3 screen fully and looks great to me. All CRTs just have that... glow.

In general the picture quality for 240p/480i content is still excellent on a HD CRT, if a bit too smooth looking, but the upscaled look is just "different" for me, not objectively worse, as some might argue. The black levels are great and the old consoles saturated colors have that vibrancy which pops like it should on a CRT. If there is some processing related lag, I cant really detect it. HD CRTs can sometimes accept VGA natively or via a DVI converter, which is another plus if you have a Dreamcast. That being said, Svideo is pretty good on the Dreamcast anyway. The Hanzo DC VGA box has switches for selectable scanlines, which is pretty amazing - I highly recommend it if you go this route. My main CRT is a "hi scan" Sony-KV-27HS420 by the way, although I have a 20" SD Wega as well, I just use it for the NES via grungy old composite and it looks beautiful.

The main issue with CRTs is the insane size and weight. Anything over 27" is just a ridiculously huge box to fit anywhere, and can exceed 200lbs. I strongly prefer the smaller 19-27" sizes anyway, as the games were made to be played on normal sized TVs where the pixels werent so visible anyway, although I tend to sit fairly close to the screen regardless.