Mario Kart 64 PAL / NTSC

[MVT]

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[bobrocks95]

Best of luck to you on this, considering how niche of a thing it is. Everyone else would want to convert from PAL to NTSC, not the other way around, so I'm sure this is treading new ground.

Why not just import PAL consoles? Cost? How many people are at the level of playing where they'd want to mod for PAL timing?

[Zapf]

Shouldn't the PAL players switch to the platform the game was originally developed for.

[MVT]

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[bobrocks95]

Importing PAL consoles, cartridges, televisions, and the proper cords, and wiring is possible. Even so some people have tried the ebay route and gotten mixed results with how well this stuff actually all works together. The primary goal is still to find the optimum hardware setup for PAL play, no matter where a player is located in the world. The secondary goal is to be able to easily switch back to NTSC with at least the same monitor and cables. Goal #2 is really not as important though and would really only be a luxury if possible type of thing.

You will already have to import at least the PAL televisions. If you have a later N64 with the MAV-NUS DAC you can use this mod: http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic=1213.0
No clue if it's common or not.

[MVT]

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[bobrocks95]

You should be able to open the N64 (using a gamebit, which is one small necessary expense up front but you'd need it anyway to do the mod) and look for the DAC to see what it's labeled as. The other type of DAC I know of is the DENC-NUS DAC.

Here is a fairly high-resolution picture of an opened N64 where I circled the DAC: http://i.imgur.com/S5MUpjX.jpg
It's location may vary based on hardware revisions, but it should look similar in size/shape.

[12345]

^^This is all way to complicated!
If you really want to play those games at PAL speed just get an ED64, for better compatibility you wanna mod your system for RGB. Next you can decide if you just download a PAL copy of the game or if you take the NTSC version and set the ED64 to PAL which should lower the game's speed (confirmed). In any case it really depends on the type of TV you want to use and if your console supports RGB or not.

Generally I don't have any understandings for the likes of you prefering to play the PAL version. It's super slow and absolutely not competitive. Furhtermore I find it unfair to force NTSC people to play PAL just because people can't handle the speed.

[Thomago]

Also forcing an NTSC game to play at PAL speed doesn't neccesarily result in the same expericence as playing the genuine PAL version. It's the same vice versa.
Without exact knowledge of the inner workings of a game doing stuff like that won't give you reliably comparable times.

[gray117]

I think it would be easier for most setups to work off ntsc, there's also the argument that this was the original format. Generally speaking a pal player's equipment these days is going to be ntsc compatible (most decent pal tvs were in the past), whereas ntsc players products will likely not be. New products - such as scalers/tv etc - are more likely to be ntsc friendly than pal (or at least exhibit less issues).

Rather than disqualifying old records I would apply your formula (if it seems basically right) and tag those records as *legacyPAL/color coded, or something similar, but from now on only accept ntsc based results. If your previous records are an unknown mix just tag them all legacy records. If you don't already do it I would strongly suggest holding 'seasonal' records whereby you have seasonal record resets/table as well as just that overall world record list - this will hopefully help inspire to keep your community active, and in the future could help earmark any old records that therefore seem to be abnormal (if there are any) as a result of any particular region/formula issues.

The larger player base in general would be ntsc based, even if your existing community had euro roots I have to imagine most of your future community would be coming from ntsc territories? Any active pal players still in this probably would happily import an ntsc system (if they don't already have them)... That and if you're worried about any standing in terms of records, I'm pretty sure the argument for a retrospective 'official world version' would be an unmodded ntsc version...

[MVT]

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[Xan]

Another experiment a user tried was importing a PAL console, cartridge, and 50/60hz television monitor. He experienced horrible blurring and other image quality issues.

And what kind of "television monitor" would that have been? If you want a CRT that is guaranteed to support both PAL and NTSC, look for Sony PVM/BVM monitors. On most PVMs you can hook up your console with a S-Video cable (specific for PAL N64s) and no modding.

[MVT]

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[Joelepain]

Also be careful that the crystal in a pal n64 is different than the one in a ntsc n64.
For example if I play an ntsc rom on my pal n64 through a 64drive, the framerate of the video signal is closer to 61hz than 59.94 hz (as reported by a xrgb-mini).
So I suppose the reverse way (pal rom on a ntsc console) have the same kind of effets.

I don't know if that has an impact on the time trials results.
I suppose that the ingame chronometer will run at the right speed (I mean the right speed inside the game, so if you compare it to a real chronometer it will be slighty faster or slower).
Maybe it could have an impact on the feeling of the game too.

[neorichieb1971]

I would just buy a LCD TV from a PAL country. Buy a PAL n64, game cartridge and a 220v step up transformer from 220v electronics and just play it all the way it was intended (in a PAL country).

Job done.

[MVT]

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[12345]

An everdrive has been one of the failed experiments one of our members tried. As you say the PAL is SUPER slow-mo, much more so than normal PAL by comparison. Thus it's not the desired genuine PAL. Do you know if the there is any solution for this with the Everdrive??

Do you even know what you are talking about? Firstly, the original PAL version, in particular, is the one being in slow motion. Secondly, I admit the method of forcing PAL might not be the most accurate but it's definitely not slower, rather the opposite which is also not what we would like to have here.
You should maybe actually try the NTSC version for once. I'm from a PAL region myself, but I can't see anyone turning back to it after having played the faster NTSC version.
So one thing which I heard of to be true is that playing an NTSC rom on an ED64 results in an 1% slower sound which isn't noticable in my opinion. I can also confirm the framemeister displaying about 61HZ at the same time but I haven't heard of anyone prooving an actual effect on gameplay.

If you want to have the 100% experience I would stick to a game and console from the same region and a CRT to reduce input lag.

[blizzz]

So one thing which I heard of to be true is that playing an NTSC rom on an ED64 results in an 1% slower sound which isn't noticable in my opinion. I can also confirm the framemeister displaying about 61HZ at the same time but I haven't heard of anyone prooving an actual effect on gameplay.

Can you post a source for that? Playing on a real cartridge or with the Everdrive is always 59.82Hz on my RGB modded Japanese N64. But I agree that playing the PAL version on an NTSC console will most likely not be at exactly the same speed as on an original PAL console.

I also think that it would be the best choice to split the PAL version into its own categorie. I played the PAL version as a kid and really hated how it felt like constant slow motion.

[MVT]

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[12345]

So one thing which I heard of to be true is that playing an NTSC rom on an ED64 results in an 1% slower sound which isn't noticable in my opinion. I can also confirm the framemeister displaying about 61HZ at the same time but I haven't heard of anyone prooving an actual effect on gameplay.

Can you post a source for that? Playing on a real cartridge or with the Everdrive is always 59.82Hz on my RGB modded Japanese N64. But I agree that playing the PAL version on an NTSC console will most likely not be at exactly the same speed as on an original PAL console.

I also think that it would be the best choice to split the PAL version into its own categorie. I played the PAL version as a kid and really hated how it felt like constant slow motion.

There might be better sources but this should be enough for now: http://krikzz.com/forum/index.php?topic ... 6#msg12206
Of course the things I wrote above are only true for PAL consoles, NTSC consoles should work as intended since the games match their region. Perhaps you could try to play a PAL game on NTSC hardware to see if there's a change maybe the other way round.
But honestly, speaking of changes in values that little, I don't think it does make an actual difference. I have to admit though I'd like to see someone proof me wrong if it does;)

I do know what I'm talking about at least according to what one of my members tested. He used an everdrive on a PAL TV setup and the game ran in SUPER-slow mo compared to his normal PAL setup. Everdrive has been riddled with slight to moderate gameplay inconsistencies during our testing.

I tested it myself and can not confirm that. Maybe he was fooled by the sound being inconsistent due to the conversion but gameplaywise the original PAL version runs at least as slow. As I already said, once you made a few races by yourself on the NTSC version you will be shocked when you play the PAL one for the next time.

[MVT]

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[blizzz]

You should use RGB SCART for optimal quality on a PAL CRT. On the N64 that will only work after a mod and modding the PAL consoles is more work than with the early NTSC models.

S-Video cables for PAL N64 need a "75ohm resistor to ground and 220uF capacitor in series on Luma, 75ohm resistor to ground and 68nF capacitor in series on Chroma". (Nintendo MultiAV)

That second video is not recorded correctly. It should be recorded at 576i25 instead of 480i30 and deinterlaced to 288p50. Also the cable might be wrong for that console.

[Xan]

These PAL N64 S-Video cables seem to be rare from what I can tell. Only source I've been able to find for them is this UK shop: http://www.robwebb1.plus.com/n64/n64.htm.

[12345]

That second video is not recorded correctly. It should be recorded at 576i25 instead of 480i30 and deinterlaced to 288p50. Also the cable might be wrong for that console.

Yes, you should definitely stick to RGB. Also, if you want to keep your NTSC hardware and want to test it accordingly for PAL replay (see quote) you have to set the ED64 to default/PAL which is only possible with RGB. Composite/S-video often results in failures or black and white colours using unintended region hardware.

[MVT]

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[12345]

If you are only interested in the most authentic PAL time trial experience Composite or S-Video should be enough, provided you have PAL hardware only. If you want the best picture quality possible outputwise, and this is what most topics here are about, you need RGB. And again, in case you want to try it: Forcing PAL on NTSC hardware needs RGB as well in most cases. But as the discussion has shown there might be differences in forced output.

[antron]

I think the best advice here was Xan's idea to get ahold of some Sony PVM monitors that support PAL/NTSC and S-video. Tell you peeps to check craigslist locally; and if they see them, buy them asap.