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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 10:18 am 


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Location: UK
So as I get asked about this often and I'm just a humble shopkeep, let me see if I have this straight:-

There is a chroma shift of 4 pixels
This applies to GCDual/Wiidual and all GCVideo variants (plug and play etc)

What I'm unclear on is:-

It only affects some games (true/false?)
It could be fixed in a firmware update, but it would be tricky and it will take time (true/false?)
It can be fixed using picture shift option in Swiss (true/false? Can anyone show exactly how?)

As my setup is still in bits and my Gamecube and Wii both packed away (actually my Wii is still having it's Wiidual installed) I can't test this stuff myself at the moment, so excuse the ignorance.
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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 1:55 pm 


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The 4 pixels shift is not a chroma shift and affects everything.

It can be (mostly) fixed using the Screen Position setting in the GameCube Main Menu (set to +04).


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 2:07 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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Extrems wrote:
and affects everything.


Maybe should be clearer about this. As far as I understood, and as far as I can see with my own eyes, it only affects unusual internal resolutions (not divisible by 4), which are used in a few GC games, the Wii system menu, some homebrew (like USB Loader GX, which tries to look like the Wii system menu), and some indeterminate number of Wii games (not a lot from what I've seen, New Super Mario Bros. and Mario Kart are some examples).


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 2:10 pm 


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You're confusing the other chroma shift bug with the 4 pixels shift bug. And that's not internal resolution, that's external resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 3:30 pm 



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I really am confused now. I thought the one bug (chroma or not, now I'm not sure) that did affect everything was fixed on GCVideo 2.4b as documented here: https://github.com/ikorb/gcvideo/commit ... 4dbaf783f1

And then there was only the "other" bug left that only affects certain resolutions (external, it turns out), which is not fixed yet but can be solved for GC games through Swiss as you detailed before.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 3:58 pm 


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That's the originally reported chroma shift bug in the YCbCr to RGB conversion. It is not the other chroma shift bug (affects both YPbPr and RGB output) or the 4 pixels shift bug (affects everything).


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 4:05 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 615
Goddammit. So there were three bugs! It seems easy to mix them up.

How does this 4 pixels shift bug manifest visually though, since it's not like the chroma bugs. Is the entire picture shifted? That doesn't sound like a big deal other than decentering the image slightly (horizontally, I assume). I certainly have not noticed since I don't keep my image overscanned.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 4:07 pm 


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The entire picture is shifted left by 4 pixels and you lose anything in the 4 pixels on the right edge of the 720x480 or 720x576 frame.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 4:44 pm 



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Extrems wrote:
The entire picture is shifted left by 4 pixels and you lose anything in the 4 pixels on the right edge of the 720x480 or 720x576 frame.


I ran the Wii 240p test suit using WiiDual and there's no missing pixels on either edge when checking through the overscan test pattern on both 240p/480i and 480p. There's no lost pixels on either side of the picture on any other content I've seen.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 4:46 pm 


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The 240p Test Suite is 640, not 720.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 4:47 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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Ah, that would be why then. Then it does not affect everything. What's an example of content that's 720?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 4:50 pm 


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Examples on the Wii include Enhanced mGBA, MPlayer CE and OpenTTD.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 4:59 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
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I have neither of those to test. They're not the most useful set of homebrew I can think of though, fortunately. Retroarch luckily is not affected. I don't think it even supports a 720 horizontal resolution. I don't think there's any WiiVC or Wiiware stuff that does either.

Any GC or Wii game examples? If not, then this would be a very minor bug. Still, hopefully it gets fixed eventually.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 5:02 pm 


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Sega Genesis on Virtual Console does, if I recall correctly.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 5:15 pm 



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Actually I did have MPlayer CE! But it doesn't seem to be missing pixels. It's a really old version from 2011 so maybe it's different.

BTW I saw your name in the credits there. I actually did use this app quite a bit back in the day for DVD playback.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 5:20 pm 


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You have to set "overscan=0" in the configuration file.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 7:23 pm 


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fernan1234 wrote:
I have neither of those to test. They're not the most useful set of homebrew I can think of though, fortunately. Retroarch luckily is not affected. I don't think it even supports a 720 horizontal resolution. I don't think there's any WiiVC or Wiiware stuff that does either.

Any GC or Wii game examples? If not, then this would be a very minor bug. Still, hopefully it gets fixed eventually.


I think all Nintendo-approved GC or Wii software signals to the TV that they're 720 horizontally.
Regardless of 240p, 480i, or 480p. Even if the game is actually using 640 or less (like VC games and retro compilations).


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 7:54 pm 


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How do you think GCVideo-DVI can report the external resolution? There's no border. Hence the need for blanking regeneration.

To have a border without using memory, you have to output in ITU-R BT.656 compliant mode and enable border generation (only available in this mode).

Note: The border doesn't matter for analog video.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 8:14 pm 



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I just tested a Genesis (Mega Drive) VC title and it has no missing pixels on the right edge. Same for everything else I checked out. This is all WiiDual outputting analog RGB/RGsB to a CRT. I've yet to see an instance of this 4 pixel shift.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 11:54 pm 


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fernan1234 wrote:
I've yet to see an instance of this 4 pixel shift.

Run the 240p suite, capture the HDMI output of GCVideo with something that can do so without any scaling and measure the width of the black borders on the left and right side.

(previous hobby until not long ago: hunting down unexpected single-pixel shifts/offsets. current hobby: teaching the software side things the "hardware" side used to do so I can trade very limited resources vs. slightly less limited resources and maybe make the menus more confusing by adding more options nobody really needs ;) )


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 12:25 am 


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Too technical for me.

Unless I'm missing something, I'd be happy with outright resuming production of the Gamecube component cable.
Or are these new solutions enough on-screen visual improvement that untrained users should sit up NOW and take notice?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 12:59 am 


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Who said these new solutions were an improvement?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 4:25 am 


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Extrems wrote:
Who said these new solutions were an improvement?


I figure they should be. Less analog/digital conversion steps.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 6:48 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
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BuckoA51 wrote:
It can be fixed using picture shift option in Swiss (true/false? Can anyone show exactly how?)


True in my case (I’m referring to the 4 pixel bug not the chroma one). There is global screen position setting in Swiss that I was able to change using the GUI. Are you have trouble finding it?

https://imgur.com/a/E1aJq2I


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2019 9:31 am 


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Quote:
True in my case (I’m referring to the 4 pixel bug not the chroma one). There is global screen position setting in Swiss that I was able to change using the GUI. Are you have trouble finding it?


Thanks, the problem is I have neither Wii nor Gamecube set up at the moment (working on it!) so I was mainly asking for customers.

I'm a little less confused now, so there were actually three bugs... one is squashed (originally reported chroma shift bug squashed in 2.4b) leaving the /other/ chroma shift bug and the 4 pixel thing.
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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:59 pm 


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www.twitter.com/Insurrection33/status/1 ... 5404736513

Another company coming out with cables that actually look pretty good. Until you see the BNC connectors -_-


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:28 pm 


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BNC seems slightly odd as a choice but it is cheap and trivial to convert to RCA


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:48 pm 


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The people who prefer component over HDMI are probably going to be enthusiasts, who are more likely to want to connect to an extron crosspoint or PVM or some other device using BNC. At the same time, RCA bullet adapters can turn a BNC connector into an RCA connector easily enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:14 pm 


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Except that RCAs are often tighter spacing than BNCs, in my experience (among the other points I mentioned in the tweet itself). For me it's significant enough to not buy it because of that.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:09 am 


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Guspaz wrote:
The people who prefer component over HDMI are probably going to be enthusiasts, who are more likely to want to connect to an extron crosspoint or PVM or some other device using BNC. At the same time, RCA bullet adapters can turn a BNC connector into an RCA connector easily enough.


If I'm not mistaken, I believe component output will provide a higher quality for GBI + OSSC setups, right? The 4:2:2 output lets GBI do some sort of interpolation trick?


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