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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:30 am 


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chriz2600 wrote:
I wouldn't call it a bug. As far as I understand, it is that the original component cable handles the chroma upsampling by simply duplicating the stored U and V values.

Yuck. I would've expected something better from Nintendo, especially since it does not require much logic to implement. Does the chip at least realign Cb and Cr to change at the same Y pixel or does it just blast out values as they become available?

(current state of GCVideo 2.5: Writing UI code is booooring)


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:08 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
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It does look like the component cable interpolates chroma.

Here is a capture with the OSSC. One 240p test pixel is two gamecube pixels and when chroma changes the 2 following pixels are the same color.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:19 pm 



Joined: 07 Feb 2016
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Location: Cologne, Germany
Citrus3000psi sent me an image from this post by FBX as an example for the difference.
Neither do I own a original gamecube cable nor do I have a gamecube with an gcvideo based mod on hand at the moment. As a result I don't know how the original component cable does the chroma upsampling.
I just thought it would be interesting and fun to experiment with various chroma upsampling methods :)


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:46 pm 


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chriz2600 wrote:
Citrus3000psi sent me an image from this post by FBX as an example for the difference.


Since that original image, Extrems has come out with new versions of his interface that re-align the chroma even for component cables. This is a newer image based on that work he did, and keep in mind it's still just using official component into the OSSC:

Image

Notice the chroma is now perfectly aligned.

-FBX
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Last edited by FBX on Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:47 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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So what's the verdict with the Nintendo GameCube Component Cables? Are they outclassed by the analog and digital signals from GCDual for CRTs?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:53 pm 


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paulb_nl wrote:
It does look like the component cable interpolates chroma.

Here is a capture with the OSSC. One 240p test pixel is two gamecube pixels and when chroma changes the 2 following pixels are the same color.
Image

That's from the GPU, not the cable. The GPU is doing what's specified in ITU-R BT.601. GCVideo has the interpolation backwards from ITU-R BT.601.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:12 pm 


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GeneraLight wrote:
So what's the verdict with the Nintendo GameCube Component Cables? Are they outclassed by the analog and digital signals from GCDual for CRTs?

I'd be interested to know this too. As for as I can gather, Wiidual analogue is destined to surpass the Wii component cables, visibly better even on a CRT - but is this true with the Gamecube? I have a feeling any improvement might not be noticeable on a CRT as it would be subtle but it'd be useful to know..


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:18 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
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andykara2003 wrote:
GeneraLight wrote:
So what's the verdict with the Nintendo GameCube Component Cables? Are they outclassed by the analog and digital signals from GCDual for CRTs?

I'd be interested to know this too. As for as I can gather, Wiidual analogue is destined to surpass the Wii component cables, visibly better even on a CRT - but is this true with the Gamecube? I have a feeling any improvement might not be noticeable on a CRT as it would be subtle but it'd be useful to know..

Right. The thing with WiiDual though is that you can keep using the Wii Component Cables and there will still be a big leap in image quality thanks to the major improvement of the internal analog signal.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:29 pm 


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GeneraLight wrote:
So what's the verdict with the Nintendo GameCube Component Cables? Are they outclassed by the analog and digital signals from GCDual for CRTs?


That is the goal to get this fixed, so the GCDual analog matches the Component cables 100%


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:50 pm 



Joined: 14 Mar 2014
Posts: 70
Is this update going to be hardware based? If so, whoops for not waiting lol


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:05 pm 


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FriendofSonic wrote:
Is this update going to be hardware based? If so, whoops for not waiting lol


No, firmware. I'll post instructions on how to update. The SPI flasher is cheap. I'll also offer to preform updates for a fair/cheap price that don't want to tear down there cube.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:52 pm 


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Extrems wrote:
GCVideo has the interpolation backwards from ITU-R BT.601.

Would it kill you to provide more details so the problem (if it exists) can be fixed?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:24 pm 



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 37
Will there be any firmware updates to GCMax or GCPlug?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:38 pm 


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pyroman512 wrote:
Will there be any firmware updates to GCMax or GCPlug?


If any updates are applicable then yes I will compile a binaries for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:28 pm 



Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 37
citrus3000psi wrote:
pyroman512 wrote:
Will there be any firmware updates to GCMax or GCPlug?


If any updates are applicable then yes I will compile a binaries for them.


Ahh so 2.5 changes may not affect those?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:45 pm 


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Alright, I've actually sat down and taken a deep hard look into this.

The following is based on the GPU's RGB to YCbCr conversion, and does not represent GBIHF.
I only have the official component cables, so the rest is based on others' captures.

This is what CMPV-DOL and AVE P-DOL do:
Image

This is what GCVideo Lite does:
Image

This is what GCVideo DVI is supposed to be doing, which is fine:
Image

This is what we see on the EON GCHD instead:
Image

Cb is ahead for the green path of the YCbCr to RGB conversion, which is a total mindfuck to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:41 am 


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Extrems wrote:
Alright, I've actually sat down and taken a deep hard look into this.

Thanks!

Quote:
Cb is ahead for the green path of the YCbCr to RGB conversion, which is a total mindfuck to me.

It's not so much of a mindfuck if you know how it is implemented - a multi-stage pipeline doing one conversion step at a time to reduce the complexity of the generated logic. I forgot to add a buffer in one stage for Cb though, so the green channel is calculated using then Cb value of the following pixel. GCVideo lite is note affected as it uses a different implementation that does not require hardware multipliers.

It'll be fixed in 2.5 where the YCbCr-to-RGB conversion has been rewritten to use higher-precision intermediate values and allow more flexibility in the selection of coefficients (not a full 3x3 matrix though because that didn't fit into the chip).


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:30 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 224
Will you also match the output of the component cables? The component cable capture is the only one with nice sharp chroma.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:27 am 


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paulb_nl wrote:
Will you also match the output of the component cables? The component cable capture is the only one with nice sharp chroma.

Assuming that this is just due to missing color interpolation in the component cables, yes - it will be switchable. Personally the interpolated version looks better to me for non-pixelart content though.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:35 pm 


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Unseen wrote:
Personally the interpolated version looks better to me for non-pixelart content though.


I'm on the other side. I don't want anything other than nearest neighbor interpolation no matter what the resolution and game type. It's only in video like movies that I like other forms of filtering.
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Last edited by FBX on Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:12 pm 


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It's technically wrong to not interpolate when faced with the GPU's RGB to YCbCr conversion.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:52 pm 



Joined: 13 Dec 2015
Posts: 34
citrus3000psi wrote:
FriendofSonic wrote:
Is this update going to be hardware based? If so, whoops for not waiting lol


No, firmware. I'll post instructions on how to update. The SPI flasher is cheap. I'll also offer to preform updates for a fair/cheap price that don't want to tear down there cube.
Am I understanding correctly that updating firmware requires a special flasher and disassembly of the GameCube? Can't just pop in a disc and flash it?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:28 pm 


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None of the GCVideo solutions have given the ability for the console to reflash them.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:31 pm 



Joined: 13 Dec 2015
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Extrems wrote:
None of the GCVideo solutions have given the ability for the console to reflash them.
Ok thanks Extrems. I’ll await Citrus’ instructions/upgrade service then


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:22 pm 



Joined: 06 Oct 2012
Posts: 1159
cant you run a wire to outside the console like in the expansion port bay where you can update it from the outside, or does the connection need to be short?


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:38 pm 


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Does anyone know the value of the resistor R9 you remove from a PAL GC during a GCDual install? I am trying to restore a GC to stock, I kept most of the components I removed but this thing is tiny.. I swear it just evaporated into thin air.

https://m.imgur.com/MIEpakd


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:07 pm 


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Kez wrote:
Does anyone know the value of the resistor R9 you remove from a PAL GC during a GCDual install? I am trying to restore a GC to stock, I kept most of the components I removed but this thing is tiny.. I swear it just evaporated into thin air.

https://m.imgur.com/MIEpakd


I have my pal motherboard somewhere. I’ll find out the value for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:09 pm 


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mvsfan wrote:
cant you run a wire to outside the console like in the expansion port bay where you can update it from the outside, or does the connection need to be short?


You can, but probably overkill. I wouldn’t expect an update after this new incoming release.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:17 pm 


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I wouldn't be so sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Cloning the Gamecube component cable
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:32 am 


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Extrems wrote:
I wouldn't be so sure.


Clearly it’s possible more updates could happen. But they will be probably be few and far between (that’s assuming there will be some) and I don’t think it warrants a update cable hanging out the console .


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