DVDO iScan Mini

[Fudoh]

just arrived.





Review upcoming (most likely this coming weekend).

[Xyga]

Exciting specs, looking forward to read your review !

[CkRtech]

[rugdoctor]

and it comes with a pouch!

[Seraphic]

Fudoh, got yourself another new toy?

[MSZ]

Can't wait to see the test result.

[brentsg]

Not the weekend yet bump.

[Fudoh]

nobody get too excited please, pretty useless so far

[Pasky]

HDMI in, HDMI out is reason enough not to get excited.

[Fudoh]

that's not exactly a problem, since good VGA to HDMI or component to HDMI converters are really cheap and easily available. It's the lack of other features that makes me wonder who's supposed to be the target audience for this little gadget...

[alamone]

How is that not a problem? Name me one example of such a "good VGA-to-HDMI converter" that is cheap and easily available.
I'm looking for a good VGA-to-HDMI converter as a lot of recent monitors are dropping the VGA input.
I've used many, including the Gefen-to-DVI scaler and a DVDO VP50 and they fail for various reasons:

1. Incompatibility with off-spec signals, especially for arcade PCBs. Maybe not a dealbreaker if you only play console games,
but even then things like MVS and PC-Engine tend to give problems.
2. Fixed output resolution, degrading the signal quality by unnecessary scaling.
3. Framerate conversion leading to stuttering. The Gefen VGA-to-DVI scaler also suffers from tearing.
4. Price. If you are suggesting a component-to-HDMI converter, then you also have to add the cost of a transcoder.
I've tried the cheap transcoders and they degrade the signal horribly. My good transcoder cost me over $100.
5. Additional lag.

[Fudoh]

You're not the audience for the iScan Mini.
From your catalogue of requirements I can't even tell what you want to achieve.

And talking about cheap VGA to HDMI converters. The once I tried (or most of them) are lag-free, don't add any scaling or lag, don't degrade the signal and are overall pretty good - as long as you got a VESA-spec'ed signal you want to convert.

[alamone]

I'm not really interested in this iScan Mini device, I'm more interested in you substantiating your statement
that "good" "cheap" and "easily available" VGA to HDMI converters are available. In my experience it's the opposite.

I think if you're in this forum your general goal is to be able to display 240P or 15KHz material.
Even assuming you have a line-doubler like a XRGB that converts to 480P or 31KHz, it still only outputs as VGA
and can't be shown on a HDMI or DVI only device. What you seem to be implying is that this conversion is trivial,
but if it was trivial there wouldn't be devices like the XRGB-mini that cost over $300.

[Fudoh]

I think if you're in this forum your general goal is to be able to display 240P or 15KHz material.

as if I didn't know that. Haven't I dedicated years and years to exactly that?

The iScan Mini does not work with 15khz signals at all.

What you seem to be implying is that this conversion is trivial,
but if it was trivial there wouldn't be devices like the XRGB-mini that cost over $300.

It is trivial. Considering you only want to replace that missing VGA port on newer displays, then really most cheap converters will do the trick. I'm using my XRGB-3 with a $35 converter and it's great. This being said, VGA ports on TVs were never that great (the usual VESA vs. SMTPE situation), so you can always improve on that... a FPGA-powered XRGB-3 clone with HDMI output should be doable for $150 or less these days.

[alamone]

You asked what my requirements were, I just gave them to you: display 240P or 480P on a display that does not have a VGA input.
If your caveat is that it has to be a "VESA-speced" signal, then that renders them pretty much useless for me, because I'm mostly
interested in arcade PCBs, not consoles.

[Fudoh]

240p is another topic. But for 480p. I have no experience with 480p from arcade boards. Are the signals this far off spec, that you run into problems ? Can you give me example of an arcade board, so I can look up the specs on MAWS ?

[alamone]

I don't have too many 480P native devices. The one that gives me problems is the Sega Hikaru.
It doesn't sync to a lot of monitors, but running it through my Box1020 appears to stabilize it for my Panasonic LCD TV.

Anyway, my main point is that I think that you're underestimating the problem of converting VGA to HDMI;
even you admit that the signal needs to be VESA spec to even work. Since this forum does have its share
of PCB users, it's a larger problem than you might think. If you have to use a XRGB-3 to begin with, then
you might as well just use the DVI output on it in the first place.

[Fudoh]

even you admit that the signal needs to be VESA spec to even work.

you misread me there. It's a sampling issue regarding the input resolution (but all TVs with VGA ports do it wrong as well). The converter I'm using on my XRGB-3 passes the frequency 1:1, so it's up to the display to handle off-spec refresh rates.

Hikaru on a LCD can just be sync issues. I'm pretty sure that Hikaru > Sync interface > CHEAP VGA2HDMI converter would work pretty good. Did you try ?

XRGB-3 in B0 is just as slow as the XRGB-Mini. XRGB-3 in B1 with a VGA to HDMI converter is the fastest HDMI-capable linedoubler out there.

[alamone]

I'd give it a try if I can actually find this cheap VGA2HDMI converter you're talking about.
The ones I tend to see, e.g. on monoprice and ebay are actually scalers and mess with the signal.
I want a 1:1 conversion, basically just A/D conversion.

[Fudoh]

I want a 1:1 conversion, basically just A/D conversion.

of course. Try #4629 at Monoprice. Those cheap converters don't like off-spec voltage levels, so you really need to combine it with an interface that reconditions your source signal. If you don't yet have one, get one with adjustable peak levels.

[MSZ]

nobody get too excited please, pretty useless so far

How is it compare to DarbeeVision Darblet?

[Fudoh]

very different. Of course they're aiming at the same audience, but the Darbee has a lot less features, while providing the better algorithm to increase the perceived detail level or sharpness. The Mini is basically a dumbed down version of the DVDO Edge with a lot less features and a few new added ones (anti ringing, SD smoothing etc).

[SGGG2]

I don't have too many 480P native devices. The one that gives me problems is the Sega Hikaru.
It doesn't sync to a lot of monitors, but running it through my Box1020 appears to stabilize it for my Panasonic LCD TV.

I use a Gefen VGA to DVI Scaler Plus with Planet Harriers, hasn't given me any trouble. I believe if both the input and output resolutions match it works as a straight transcoder (no scaling). I was thinking about trying a Inveo Video Converter for $15 refurbished; http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications ... CatId=6946

[brownvim]

even you admit that the signal needs to be VESA spec to even work.

you misread me there. It's a sampling issue regarding the input resolution (but all TVs with VGA ports do it wrong as well). The converter I'm using on my XRGB-3 passes the frequency 1:1, so it's up to the display to handle off-spec refresh rates.

Hikaru on a LCD can just be sync issues. I'm pretty sure that Hikaru > Sync interface > CHEAP VGA2HDMI converter would work pretty good. Did you try ?

XRGB-3 in B0 is just as slow as the XRGB-Mini. XRGB-3 in B1 with a VGA to HDMI converter is the fastest HDMI-capable linedoubler out there.

Fudoh what are the benefits of having it transcoded to HDMI? I have both inputs on my monitor. Wondering if it might fix the bad scaling bug in B1 mode?

[Fudoh]

for alamone it was about a substitute for a missing VGA port on newer displays.

For anybody else it's about getting the full resolution sampled during the A/D process. But didn't you (in regard to the DC recently) say that the 1-pixel checkerboard patterns already gets correctly sampled on your display through VGA ??

[brownvim]

Yes the checkerboard helps me fix it, I have to save the settings of:

Pixel Clock
Phase
Horizontal Position
Vertical Position

Then set them each time I switch console, which is a bit of a hassle.

If I got the VGA to HDMI device, you reckon it would make it easier?

Plus, the test suite isn't available for PS2, yet.

[Fudoh]

If I got the VGA to HDMI device, you reckon it would make it easier?

no, since the VGA to HDMI converters already applies the wrong clock & phase setting for it's own sampling process.

You would need a VGA to component converter along with a component to HDMI one to solve this.

[brownvim]

Oh yeah, this was the expensive option wasn't it

[Fudoh]

not necessarily - I've picked up enough transcoders in my life for 10 EUR or less - it's just about finding one. The Component to HDMI converter isn't expensive (30 EUR).

[brownvim]

Iv already got the Component to HDMI transcoder, it's great but only does 480p and higher.

Would I still get interlaced things working?