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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:01 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 574
superg wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:
Yes that's my only option for all non component compatible consoles (short of sticking with s-video). Would there be a noticeable improvement if I drop the component switch and just went from the gscartsw to the encoder to the tv?

Depends on a RGB2YUV converter you currently use. For some the color space conversion is imprecise and requires manual adjustment and I'd say it's impossible to adjust it right without using additional equipment.

Yes I'm currently on the market to look for a better converter as prior to this I used to use a CYS clone which to be quite frank was bad. I've never though of doing such a daisy chain before (1x scart switcher + 1 comp switcher). I've read one can daisy chain two gscartsw, but what about one gscartsw and one gscompsw, have you tested such a setup for any noticeable loss in quality (with a good converter of course)?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:22 pm 



Joined: 19 Feb 2019
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Superg, just want to start off by saying I appreciate your hard work and thanks for everything you do. I've been following this thread consistently for several months now and I am looking forward in pre-ordering a gcompsw when things open up soon. I was hoping if either yourself or others could provide some advice regarding my setup. I am going for a full component setup this year with 12 consoles (might add more). I have an hdtv, which I plan to get an OSSC for and a Sony Trinitron KV-24FV300 CRT in my setup. I'm aware the new switch will have 8 inputs so without sacrificing quality and buying a cheap switch for the remaining 4 consoles, would it be best to order 2 gcompsw's? Would it be possible to connect both switches together? If it is, i'm thinking of running one output to the HDTV with the OSSC and the other output to the CRT having the option to game with 12-16 consoles on either tv. All consoles will be using HD retrovision cables. I apologize if similar questions were asked previously, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:03 am 



Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 14
I salute the community. :)

I signed up because I'm an old school gamer, I got most of the retro gaming consoles and I promise to be active and usefull. :wink:

Me too I ordered the gscartsw newest version and waiting for my order.

I read good reviews here, and I hope it is of adequate quality because connecting and disconnecting is inconvenient and my gaming equipment will get wear and tear with time. :!:


I need your attention to the following issue I have, I read on web that this is a common issue. :idea:

I’ve been suffering of the horizontal sync jitter issue with all of my CRT tvs sony Trinitrons (kv-21cl10e and kv-21fq10e) for most of my retro consoles, such as snes, super famicom, sega mega drive, sega genesis, wii, neo geo AES, also in a few playstation 1 games (if I remember well).
Here it is:
https://www.hdretrovision.com/jitter


Using later generation consoles like the playstation 2, playstation 3 I won’t have any problem and it is totally jitter free for all of my CRT TVs using as always RGB video cables.
This jitter effect was driving me crazy, I thought, that my consoles were faulty. The brighter the screen is, the more likely it is to notice it easier.
I recently picked up a sega Saturn and a sega dreamcast, unfortunately I haven’t test these consoles yet, but it looks like the jitter horizontal effect shows up when CRT tvs are displaying low resolutions, like the snes 240p resolution, for example.

My neo geo AES on my CRT tv Philips 29’ is working like a charm, it has brilliant and steady picture. The same neo geo AES console on my sony Trinitrons, gets the jitter sync issue.


Watching a movie with a compatible dvd player I got rock solid picture with no issues at all :!:

After some tweaking on my Philips 29’ (29pt9417_12) CRT TV I managed to remove the horizontal jitter effect for snes sfamicom as far as I remember, but only temporarily, I was using the digital options menu like the pixel plus, the movie plus, double lines or 100hz digital scan that Philips has implemented to the Tv’s menu. The jitter effect was coming back after a few seconds for only a moment. Again, the image was not stable.
I suppose it’s a TV compatibility issue, at the end of the day, maybe it all depends on the CRT TV model and maybe I should start looking for used CRT TVs in good condition.
What are your thoughts?


All the following cables are purchased from https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk

My sega mega drive and sega genesis are unmodded unmodified consoles both model 1 --- > I use the sega mega drive 1 / Genesis 1 RGB scart Packapunch pro cable with stereo sound.

My snes pal console and superfamicom console is RGB bypass modified with the TH-7314 chip installed. There are both 1 chip-01 consoles. My snes pal console is CSYNC modded on pin 3.

I use the super nintendo famicom snes RGB scart cable for NTSC console csync with the resistor on the sync line for both my snes pal and superfamicom consoles.


I read on web that PAL SNES was internally revised 4 or more times during its lifetime. Later consoles used a different video encoder chip and supporting circuitry and 'appear' to work fine with an unmodified PAL Gamecube/NTSC SNES Scart cable (with capacitors).


I had found the following information on my SNSP-001A(FRG) snes PAL model console. Apparently it works with the GC RGB SCART cable. But it mentions that it had resistors inside the GC SCART, however, a GC SCART should have capacitors and not resistors on the RGB lines, so I don't know whether this is a mistake by whoever wrote this.


I had also found this on the Gamesx.com website here.

Here it is another site that that mentions my snes PAL model anomaly.
https://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1549.0


For the ps1 console I use the playstation RGB scart packapunch pro cable for ps1
For the ps2 console I use playstation RGB scart packapunch pro cable for ps2

For my neo geo AES console I use the SNK neo geo AES stereo RGB AV scart cable lead with composite sync.

For my wii pal console I use the nintendo wii RGB scart cable composite sync CSYNC.


At the hdretrovision wesite the guys suggest to use an intermediary device in between the YPbPr cable and the TV, such as an A/V receiver or a video processor. Maybe with the gscartsw my issues will disappear after all?

Any help will be appreciated.


Last edited by Niro starship on Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:33 pm, edited 8 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:44 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
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Also by the way, how much longer are you leaving open the preorders for your March batch of gscartsw? Or is this based on availability?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:00 pm 


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Taiyaki wrote:
Yes I'm currently on the market to look for a better converter as prior to this I used to use a CYS clone which to be quite frank was bad. I've never though of doing such a daisy chain before (1x scart switcher + 1 comp switcher). I've read one can daisy chain two gscartsw, but what about one gscartsw and one gscompsw, have you tested such a setup for any noticeable loss in quality (with a good converter of course)?

Quality losses are minimal, it depends more on your cables then on the switches. No plans to close the gscartsw pre orders as of now.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:48 pm 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 574
superg wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:
Quality losses are minimal, it depends more on your cables then on the switches. No plans to close the gscartsw pre orders as of now.


Thank you. I hope the preorders stay open till the 1st of March, I intend to place an order for another unit. :)


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:31 am 


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Niro starship wrote:
I’ve been suffering of the sync jitter issue with all of my CRT tvs sony Trinitrons (kv-21cl10e and kv-21fq10e) for most of my retro consoles, such as snes, super famicom, sega mega drive, sega genesis, wii, neo geo AES, also in a few playstation 1 games (if I remember well).
Here it is:
https://www.hdretrovision.com/jitter

I don't see how that is relevant to your situation. What HDretrovision is talking about is sync jitter on some newer flat panel HDTV's. Yours is CRT, if you get some jitter, it's something else. How do you connect your consoles to your TV, what cables exactly are used?
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:16 am 


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As the days tick down to March I'm getting excited. It will be so nice to not have to switch SCART cables manually anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:18 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 574
Is it necessary to run power to the switch on the newer models or is it still an option to run it passively, and if yes what differences are there?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:26 pm 


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Taiyaki wrote:
Is it necessary to run power to the switch on the newer models or is it still an option to run it passively, and if yes what differences are there?

It's an active switch now, external power is needed. I include power supply with every unit, it's MicroUSB now as it seems to be more convenient to people nowadays.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:43 pm 



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superg wrote:
It's an active switch now, external power is needed. I include power supply with every unit, it's MicroUSB now as it seems to be more convenient to people nowadays.


Okay good to know. I don't mind the having to feed it power at all but just curious, did issues creep up from having it passive in earlier models?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:56 pm 


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Taiyaki wrote:
superg wrote:
It's an active switch now, external power is needed. I include power supply with every unit, it's MicroUSB now as it seems to be more convenient to people nowadays.


Okay good to know. I don't mind the having to feed it power at all but just curious, did issues creep up from having it passive in earlier models?

The primary reason for active switch was different and unreliable cables. Everybody had it different, some were original and not providing enough power, others weren't fully wired and so on. So I stopped connecting SCART pin 8 and pin 16 at all. This also simplified switch design a bit.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:01 pm 



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superg wrote:
The primary reason for active switch was different and unreliable cables. Everybody had it different, some were original and not providing enough power, others weren't fully wired and so on. So I stopped connecting SCART pin 8 and pin 16 at all. This also simplified switch design a bit.

That makes sense. Looking forward to trying your newer model and comparing it to the 5 year old one. :D


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:39 pm 



Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 14
superg wrote:
Niro starship wrote:
I’ve been suffering of the sync jitter issue with all of my CRT tvs sony Trinitrons (kv-21cl10e and kv-21fq10e) for most of my retro consoles, such as snes, super famicom, sega mega drive, sega genesis, wii, neo geo AES, also in a few playstation 1 games (if I remember well).
Here it is:
https://www.hdretrovision.com/jitter

I don't see how that is relevant to your situation. What HDretrovision is talking about is sync jitter on some newer flat panel HDTV's. Yours is CRT, if you get some jitter, it's something else. How do you connect your consoles to your TV, what cables exactly are used?


I have updated my post, please take a look again.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:13 pm 


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Niro starship wrote:
I have updated my post, please take a look again.

Well, ok, it seems that you get systematic issues on everything low resolution if used on your Sony TV's. It's hard to diagnose this and I think the problem likely are your TV's. I don't think that gscartsw will solve any of that. For CRT TV's you can try to replace the capacitors if you think that originally those TV's were showing good picture. Other than there is nothing else I can suggest.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:07 am 



Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 14
superg wrote:
Niro starship wrote:
I have updated my post, please take a look again.

Well, ok, it seems that you get systematic issues on everything low resolution if used on your Sony TV's. It's hard to diagnose this and I think the problem likely are your TV's. I don't think that gscartsw will solve any of that. For CRT TV's you can try to replace the capacitors if you think that originally those TV's were showing good picture. Other than there is nothing else I can suggest.



I'm not the original owner of these sony trinitron CRT tvs, therefore I can't tell if they have a hardware failure.

I picked them up locally in my city where I live, in used but very good condition.
I guess I should start looking for a new used crt tv?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:53 am 



Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 41
What is the max power draw you have observed for the SoG gscartsw over USB?
I have quite a few usb powered devices in my setup and was considering getting one of those bulk usb power chargers to replace multiple wall warts from my rats nest of surge protectors.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:28 am 


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Dazdigo wrote:
What is the max power draw you have observed for the SoG gscartsw over USB?
I have quite a few usb powered devices in my setup and was considering getting one of those bulk usb power chargers to replace multiple wall warts from my rats nest of surge protectors.

200mA or so, I don't remember exactly. I think pretty much everything will be able to power it up.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:25 am 



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In a basic setup on a 15khz consumer crt, is there ever need for sync regeneration/cleaner enabled? Or is this mostly for those special case bvm's, ossc, xrgb etc?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:19 am 


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The PSU for my gscartsw_lite has started making an annoying whining noise, can anyone recommend a decent replacement easily available in Europe?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:00 pm 


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Taiyaki wrote:
In a basic setup on a 15khz consumer crt, is there ever need for sync regeneration/cleaner enabled? Or is this mostly for those special case bvm's, ossc, xrgb etc?

No, you don't usually need it. It helps when something else is not up to spec.

Kez wrote:
The PSU for my gscartsw_lite has started making an annoying whining noise, can anyone recommend a decent replacement easily available in Europe?

This is what I provided with the gscartsw_lite: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/5023722
DigiKey is available in Europe, look it up.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:27 pm 



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superg wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:
In a basic setup on a 15khz consumer crt, is there ever need for sync regeneration/cleaner enabled? Or is this mostly for those special case bvm's, ossc, xrgb etc?

No, you don't usually need it. It helps when something else is not up to spec.


Thank you. :)


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:19 am 



Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 14
Hi,
sorry if it has been mentioned before.

The gscartsw lite v5.2 will be fully compatible with all the video cables I have purchased from https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk or I will get into trouble?
RGB scart video cables with features like CSYNC, sync over composite video, sync on luma etc. will be fully compatible with this multi scart switcher?

For your reference, I quoted all my retro gaming video cable I have purchased from the retrogaming cables guys.


Gamecube RGB pal CSYNC takes the sync over composite video signal from pin 9 and then feeds this into an LM1881 (sync separator circuit) to achieve CSYNC.

Super NTSC CSYNC (takes CSYNC direct from the console via pin 3)

Super nes RGB sync on luma (takes sync from pin 7)

Playstation 1 2 3 RGB scart cable sync on luma

Sega mega drive 1 genesis 1RGB Packapunch pro CSYNC (Wired for composite sync)

Playstation 1 RGB Packapunch pro csync Composite Sync (CSYNC) signal achieved using a built in sync separator circuit,

Playstation 2 RGB Packapunch pro csync Wired for Composite Sync (CSYNC).

Sega Saturn RGB packapunch (ntsc/pal) sync on luma

Snk neo geo packapunch AES / CDZ RGB scart cable Wired for CSYNC (composite sync)

Nintendo wii Packapunch pro RGB cable wired for composite sync CSYNC (built in video sync separator)

Nintendo wii RGB scart composite sync CSYNC

Packapunch euro scart male to male (1.5m)




P.S. My snes pal and super famicom consoles have a LPF built in because they are RGB bypass modded with the THS-7314 chip.

As far as I remember the gscartsw lite v5.2 have no Low pass filters built in, is this correct?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:52 am 


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Niro starship wrote:
Hi,
sorry if it has been mentioned before.

The gscartsw lite v5.2 will be fully compatible with all the video cables I have purchased from https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk or I will get into trouble?
RGB scart video cables with features like CSYNC, sync over composite video, sync on luma etc. will be fully compatible with this multi scart switcher?

For your reference, I quoted all my retro gaming video cable I have purchased from the retrogaming cables guys.


Gamecube RGB pal CSYNC takes the sync over composite video signal from pin 9 and then feeds this into an LM1881 (sync separator circuit) to achieve CSYNC.

Super NTSC CSYNC (takes CSYNC direct from the console via pin 3)

Super nes RGB sync on luma (takes sync from pin 7)

Playstation 1 2 3 RGB scart cable sync on luma

Sega mega drive 1 genesis 1RGB Packapunch pro CSYNC (Wired for composite sync)

Playstation 1 RGB Packapunch pro csync Composite Sync (CSYNC) signal achieved using a built in sync separator circuit,

Playstation 2 RGB Packapunch pro csync Wired for Composite Sync (CSYNC).

Sega Saturn RGB packapunch (ntsc/pal) sync on luma

Snk neo geo packapunch AES / CDZ RGB scart cable Wired for CSYNC (composite sync)

Nintendo wii Packapunch pro RGB cable wired for composite sync CSYNC (built in video sync separator)

Nintendo wii RGB scart composite sync CSYNC

Packapunch euro scart male to male (1.5m)




P.S. My snes pal and super famicom consoles have a LPF built in because they are RGB bypass modded with the THS-7314 chip.

As far as I remember the gscartsw lite v5.2 have no Low pass filters built in, is this correct?

No low pass filter in new gscartsw.
I suggest not to use cables with built in sync separator. Use sync on luma on PSX if you don't want to use cvbs.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:56 am 


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superg wrote:
This is what I provided with the gscartsw_lite: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/5023722
DigiKey is available in Europe, look it up.


Okay, thanks. :)


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:57 am 



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I have 1 gscartsw_lite already pre-ordered. I'm expecting to need a second to hook up all of my consoles, but figured I should wait for the first to arrive and test it out before doubling down. With current preorders expected to ship in March, if I don't place another order until say April, should I expect to have to wait a significant amount of time before more orders go out?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:18 am 


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noir wrote:
I have 1 gscartsw_lite already pre-ordered. I'm expecting to need a second to hook up all of my consoles, but figured I should wait for the first to arrive and test it out before doubling down. With current preorders expected to ship in March, if I don't place another order until say April, should I expect to have to wait a significant amount of time before more orders go out?

Not too long comparing to the current situation, it should be the same version and the usual turnaround time is 8 weeks.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:16 am 



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I preordered too.

As a fun note I was checking out the first few pages and remembered some of those early quirks and odd behaviors that we had to test and that you corrected over time. This project has really gone a long way since then. :)


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:39 pm 



Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 14
Hey superg,

What is the reason the gscartsw lite v5.2 couldn't handle right the RGB scart cables with built in sync seperator?


^This is because the gscartsw lite v5.2 has a built in sync cleaning function on the dual SCART outputs? If this is the case wasn't a switch on/off added to the gscartsw for the incorporated sync separator circuit that achieves CSYNC on the output?


P.S. My ps2 console outputs a green picture when a dvd movie is played. Does your gscartsw solves this kind of issue?


Last edited by Niro starship on Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:50 am 



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Do the HD Retrovision cables work well with the gcompsw when connecting to a PVM that supports said cables?


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