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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:30 pm 


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Whilst i'm looking forward to the new gscartsw design, I must admit I was kind of hoping for a standalone unit that could separate sync from green, so that it could be used with all existing gscartsw.

In my opinion the ideal addon for the gscartsw would be a a "gsyncsw" 4:1 switch unit, which would feature a VGA (DE-15) input with L&R audio, a 'Component' input with L&R audio (Same 6x vertical RCA connector as used on gcompsw) and two SCART sockets, with one SCART output. The unit would take RGBHV, RGsB or RGBS and output only RGBS, making it ideal for use with the Dreamcast, PS2 and Xbox. It wouldn't be a transcoder, so the 'Component' input would simply be there to allow people to use old Component cables to carry RGsB (For instance the Xbox can use a hacked "VGA" BIOS to force RGsB output from the AV port over the same pins that the Component cable already uses) The "gsyncsw" could then be connected to any existing gscartsw, giving users an extra three inputs with greater sync compatibility.

Maybe i'm just dreaming, but is this something you might ever consider superg?


Last edited by Link83 on Wed May 23, 2018 2:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:40 pm 


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Link83 wrote:
Whilst i'm looking forward to the new gscartsw design, I must admit I was kind of hoping for a seperate standalone unit that could seperate sync from green, so that it could be used with all existing gscartsw.

In my opinion the ideal addon for the gscart would be a a "gsyncsw" 4:1 switch unit, which would feature a VGA (DE-15) input with L+R audio, a 'Component' input with L&R audio (Same 6x vertical RCA connector as used on gcompsw) and two SCART sockets, with one SCART output. The unit would take RGBHV, RGsB or RGBS and output only RGBS, making it ideal for use with the Dreamcast, PS2 and Xbox. It wouldn't be a transcoder, so the 'Component' input would simply be there to allow people to use old Component cables to carry RGsB (For instance the Xbox can use a hacked "VGA" BIOS to force RGsB output from the AV port over the same pins that the Component cable already uses) The "gsyncsw" could then be connected to any existing gscartsw, giving users an extra three inputs with greater sync compatibility.

Maybe i'm just dreaming, but is this something you might ever consider superg?

I don't think so, sorry. If I ever do gsyncsw [unlikely], it wouldn't be something you've just described.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 2:56 pm 



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superg wrote:
Forgot to mention, the new gscartsw has microUSB power supply.

Question: Since you're adding a USB connector anyway, would it be possible to add a USB serial console to query/remote control the switch instead of using the EXT header?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:07 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
superg wrote:
Forgot to mention, the new gscartsw has microUSB power supply.

Question: Since you're adding a USB connector anyway, would it be possible to add a USB serial console to query/remote control the switch instead of using the EXT header?

I doubt somebody will go through the trouble writing the driver for it given that nobody utilized the EXT port.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:32 pm 



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superg wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
superg wrote:
Forgot to mention, the new gscartsw has microUSB power supply.

Question: Since you're adding a USB connector anyway, would it be possible to add a USB serial console to query/remote control the switch instead of using the EXT header?

I doubt somebody will go through the trouble writing the driver for it given that nobody utilized the EXT port.

Would it need a special driver? Couldn't you just use a Prolific chip, like most USB serial cables? Or, perhaps simpler, what about simply exposing serial TX/RX lines with a header?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:37 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
Would it need a special driver? Couldn't you just use a Prolific chip, like most USB serial cables? Or, perhaps simpler, what about simply exposing serial TX/RX lines with a header?

Why would I spend another $5 for an unused functionality? I saved $1 by removing the EXT header because nobody used it.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:45 pm 


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superg wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
Would it need a special driver? Couldn't you just use a Prolific chip, like most USB serial cables? Or, perhaps simpler, what about simply exposing serial TX/RX lines with a header?

Why would I spend another $5 for an unused functionality? I saved $1 by removing the EXT header because nobody used it.


I would really really love manual switch option, and I think you said this is possible with the EXT header. I don't know how to use the header to make a manual switch button, or I would. How can I learn how to use it? If I knew more I can think of several uses I'd be interested in.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:59 pm 


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arithmaldor wrote:
superg wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
Would it need a special driver? Couldn't you just use a Prolific chip, like most USB serial cables? Or, perhaps simpler, what about simply exposing serial TX/RX lines with a header?

Why would I spend another $5 for an unused functionality? I saved $1 by removing the EXT header because nobody used it.


I would really really love manual switch option, and I think you said this is possible with the EXT header. I don't know how to use the header to make a manual switch button, or I would. How can I learn how to use it? If I knew more I can think of several uses I'd be interested in.

I couple of pages back I described the EXT header pinout, it was all explained.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 5:05 pm 


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The prototypes are here, debugging a few things and checking power consumption.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2018 5:32 pm 



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superg wrote:
The prototypes are here, debugging a few things and checking power consumption.

Awesome! Can't wait to order from ya.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 6:58 am 



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superg wrote:
The prototypes are here, debugging a few things and checking power consumption.


WoW


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 12:05 am 



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Is there a pre-buy or deposit for the 8 scart lite version? I NEED one of these for my multitude of rgb consoles!


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 2:11 pm 


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superg wrote:
The prototypes are here, debugging a few things and checking power consumption.

There is some power issue I have to resolve in order to continue testing, ordering the parts.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 12:51 pm 



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@superg hi. Been using my gscartsw for ages now and am happy with it, but was wondering about the upcoming revision. When I bought the gscartsw I think you were saying you'd be releasing an add-on to enable sync-on-green in the future (to work with that version of the gcsartsw)? Are you saying now that it'll require this new revision of the SCART switcher (and no add-on is coming)?

Ideally I'd prefer not to have to sell my existing one to upgrade to get the sync-on-green functionality.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 1:08 pm 


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coderkind wrote:
@superg hi. Been using my gscartsw for ages now and am happy with it, but was wondering about the upcoming revision. When I bought the gscartsw I think you were saying you'd be releasing an add-on to enable sync-on-green in the future (to work with that version of the gcsartsw)? Are you saying now that it'll require this new revision of the SCART switcher (and no add-on is coming)?

Ideally I'd prefer not to have to sell my existing one to upgrade to get the sync-on-green functionality.

I was thinking about the separate device initially, even have some schematics for that but it's easier to incorporate it to gscartsw as all the main IC's are already there, Altera will take care of the signal separation.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:35 pm 


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superg wrote:
Link83 wrote:
Whilst i'm looking forward to the new gscartsw design, I must admit I was kind of hoping for a seperate standalone unit that could seperate sync from green, so that it could be used with all existing gscartsw.

In my opinion the ideal addon for the gscart would be a a "gsyncsw" 4:1 switch unit, which would feature a VGA (DE-15) input with L+R audio, a 'Component' input with L&R audio (Same 6x vertical RCA connector as used on gcompsw) and two SCART sockets, with one SCART output. The unit would take RGBHV, RGsB or RGBS and output only RGBS, making it ideal for use with the Dreamcast, PS2 and Xbox. It wouldn't be a transcoder, so the 'Component' input would simply be there to allow people to use old Component cables to carry RGsB (For instance the Xbox can use a hacked "VGA" BIOS to force RGsB output from the AV port over the same pins that the Component cable already uses) The "gsyncsw" could then be connected to any existing gscartsw, giving users an extra three inputs with greater sync compatibility.

Maybe i'm just dreaming, but is this something you might ever consider superg?

I don't think so, sorry. If I ever do gsyncsw [unlikely], it wouldn't be something you've just described.

I understand, but since you are currently redesigning the gscartsw for RGsB might you also consider adding RGBHV support over SCART? SCART Pin 10 could carry HSYNC, and Pin 12 could carry VSYNC, and then it could output RGBS (and/or RGBHV). That way with a simple SCART adapter the gscartsw could be used as a VGA switch/sync combiner as well?


Last edited by Link83 on Wed May 30, 2018 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:43 pm 


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Link83 wrote:
I understand, but since you are currently redesigning the gscartsw for RGsB might you also consider adding RGBHV support over SCART? SCART Pin 10 could carry HSYNC, and Pin 12 could carry VSYNC, and then it could output ouput RGBS (and/or RGBHV). That way with a simple SCART adapter the gscartsw could be used as a VGA switch/sync combiner as well?

There is no advantage in having separate HV sync, it's not improving the picture, just using two wires instead of one. Using digital pins to pass analog signals is not very nice and standard, apart from you'll need custom adapters to VGA or whatever you want to use (BNC?). Too cumbersome configuration. The clean solution is to mix HV sync to composite sync before entering the switch - there are even ready made devices that do exactly this, Micomsoft XSYNC and I think beharius has some device for that.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:13 pm 


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superg wrote:
Link83 wrote:
I understand, but since you are currently redesigning the gscartsw for RGsB might you also consider adding RGBHV support over SCART? SCART Pin 10 could carry HSYNC, and Pin 12 could carry VSYNC, and then it could output ouput RGBS (and/or RGBHV). That way with a simple SCART adapter the gscartsw could be used as a VGA switch/sync combiner as well?

There is no advantage in having separate HV sync, it's not improving the picture, just using two wires instead of one. Using digital pins to pass analog signals is not very nice and standard, apart from you'll need custom adapters to VGA or whatever you want to use (BNC?). Too cumbersome configuration. The clean solution is to mix HV sync to composite sync before entering the switch - there are even ready made devices that do exactly this, Micomsoft XSYNC and I think beharius has some device for that.

I dont want separate sync, I realise there is no advantage. However some consoles only output HSYNC and VSYNC for 480p, such as the Dreamcast, and (with a two wire mod) the PS2 and Xbox. I'm only thinking it would add greater flexibility to the gscartsw design.

To my knowledge SCART Pins 10 and 12 have very rarely been used, and no game consoles SCART cables ever used them. The commercially available Keene SCART Commander used pins 10 and 12 for HSYNC and VSYNC input. On the output side I would be happy with just RGBS (CSYNC on pin 20) but if you wanted there could also be a small switch to enable/disable HSYNC/VSYNC output over SCART pins 10/12.

As far as I can tell through google the Micomsoft XSYNC1 was a CSYNC separator? (and apparently its no longer sold) The Beharbros design also has some "critical design flaws":-
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=61472
Guspaz wrote:
It generates an invalid csync signal for the SCART port because it just XNORs the H and V sync together, which is incorrect and won't work properly with many digital devices like the OSSC.

If you know of any other quality sync combiners I would love to know about them :?

Anyway, it was just an idea which I though some people would find useful.


Last edited by Link83 on Wed May 30, 2018 8:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:22 pm 


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Link83 wrote:
As far as I can tell through google the Micomsoft XSYNC1 was a CSYNC separator? (and apparently its no longer sold) The Beharbros design also has some "critical design flaws":-
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=61472

Oh, my bad, it was the other way around, thanks for pointing that out!
Yeah, I'm aware of the beharius device flaws but a number of gscartsw owners used it.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:11 pm 


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Link83 wrote:
superg wrote:
As far as I can tell through google the Micomsoft XSYNC1 was a CSYNC separator? (and apparently its no longer sold) The Beharbros design also has some "critical design flaws":-
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=61472
Guspaz wrote:
It generates an invalid csync signal for the SCART port because it just XNORs the H and V sync together, which is incorrect and won't work properly with many digital devices like the OSSC.

If you know of any other quality sync combiners I would love to know about them :?


Guspaz is talking about the Garo which is a transcoder. They made a separate sync combiner (Kenzie?) that worked well as far as I could tell. I even used it to fix the sync on the Garo.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:21 pm 


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The extron 201rxi and 203rxi also combine sync nicely. 202rxi works well also but it has a male 8 pin dsub input instead of the VGA seen on the 201 and 203. I would suggest using this and then a BNC to scart cable (make sure there's a resistor on the sync line) to go to the gscartsw. It also converts sync on green to RGBS so there's your standalone device. The 201's go for something like $40 on eBay, you really can't beat it.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:38 am 


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DirkSwizzler wrote:
Guspaz is talking about the Garo which is a transcoder. They made a separate sync combiner (Kenzie?) that worked well as far as I could tell. I even used it to fix the sync on the Garo.

Thanks, but having read the Kenzei release thread:-
https://assemblergames.com/threads/kenz ... 068/page-4
There appears to be a number of users with issues, so it seems a bit hit or miss, and given the previous issues mentioned wiith the Garo (and a number of issues with the cables?) I think I would rather look elsewhere.

arithmaldor wrote:
The extron 201rxi and 203rxi also combine sync nicely. 202rxi works well also but it has a male 8 pin dsub input instead of the VGA seen on the 201 and 203. I would suggest using this and then a BNC to scart cable (make sure there's a resistor on the sync line) to go to the gscartsw. It also converts sync on green to RGBS so there's your standalone device. The 201's go for something like $40 on eBay, you really can't beat it.

Thanks, think i'll keep an eye out for an Extron then to use as a sync combiner.

Apologies for taking the thread slightly off topic superg :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:30 pm 



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I would love an 8 input 2 output version of the gcompsw.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:16 pm 



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I'd also like to see 5+ inputs on the gcompsw since I'm looking to hook up a Genesis/Saturn/DC (eventually)/Xbox/Wii. Though I'm not as worried about extra outputs since component splitter boxes are much easier to find in the US than ones for SCART.

Anyway, another vote for 8:2!


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:05 pm 



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Hi superg! I ordered a gscartsw_lite and gcompsw a while back and have been really loving both for use with my Framemeister. Great work on these products!!

I very recently picked up a PVM and am now interested in feeding output from both of these switches into the PVM. The PVM(-14L5) seems to only have one set of BNC RGB input. Since gscartsw_lite has two SCART outputs, a SCART <-> BNC adapter from the gscartsw_lite's other SCART output seems like a really good way to get my SCART RGB signals into the PVM.

My question, then, is this: for my gcompsw / component devices, would it be possible to get a Component <-> SCART transcoder (like BeharBros Garo or the $60 one on Amazon) and chain the gcompsw into the gscartsw_lite, for eventual simultaneous output to my PVM and Framemeister via RGB? Will these two devices interact correctly in this way? Or is there potentially a better way to also feed in my component sources to the PVM (and notably keep a stream going into my Framemeister)?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:19 pm 


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lagfighter wrote:
Hi superg! I ordered a gscartsw_lite and gcompsw a while back and have been really loving both for use with my Framemeister. Great work on these products!!

I very recently picked up a PVM and am now interested in feeding output from both of these switches into the PVM. The PVM(-14L5) seems to only have one set of BNC RGB input. Since gscartsw_lite has two SCART outputs, a SCART <-> BNC adapter from the gscartsw_lite's other SCART output seems like a really good way to get my SCART RGB signals into the PVM.

My question, then, is this: for my gcompsw / component devices, would it be possible to get a Component <-> SCART transcoder (like BeharBros Garo or the $60 one on Amazon) and chain the gcompsw into the gscartsw_lite, for eventual simultaneous output to my PVM and Framemeister via RGB? Will these two devices interact correctly in this way? Or is there potentially a better way to also feed in my component sources to the PVM (and notably keep a stream going into my Framemeister)?

Thanks!

Transcoder solution should work, some users are doing this. Also if you're tech savvy you can carefully route passive SCART to Component adapter because both gcompsw and gscartsw are electrically compatible. I think somebody also did that.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:46 pm 



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superg wrote:
Also if you're tech savvy you can carefully route passive SCART to Component adapter because both gcompsw and gscartsw are electrically compatible. I think somebody also did that.


Will the new gscartsw with RGsB support work with component video signals? Assuming passive component to SCART cables are used. By "work" I mean auto select the active input and pass the component signal through unmolested.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:50 pm 


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the Goat wrote:
superg wrote:
Also if you're tech savvy you can carefully route passive SCART to Component adapter because both gcompsw and gscartsw are electrically compatible. I think somebody also did that.


Will the new gscartsw with RGsB support work with component video signals? Assuming passive component to SCART cables are used. By "work" I mean auto select the active input and pass the component signal through unmolested.

It will properly detect the signal however it will extract the sync from Y and pass it separately. This is still work in progress, I have to test everything.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:35 am 



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I am curious how you will handle the switch will RGsB signal if the scart cable also includes CSYNC/Luma/SoC signal at the same time. Such as how it determines which to use and how well it handles the hand over. If both are dumped into the same csync line, I can see that causing a lot of problems.

Looking forward to the prototype results and to the next preorder sale.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:14 pm 



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Hi SuperG, what's the protocol for gscartsw stock? I'm in the market and they are always out!


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