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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:22 am 


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Joined: 07 Oct 2013
Posts: 21
superg wrote:
Hey Forks,

I've just checked fat SNES US with switch and it works well with lm1881 turned OFF.
Please check your cable (you should have there three 220uF capacitors and 180Ohm resistor)
Also make sure your SNES power supply provide enough voltage, I've just had seen visual problems using cheap impulse power supply.


I was actually just about to message you about checking to be sure that I can still return the unit... I've just been so busy that I haven't gotten around to it. I was going to return it tomorrow, but I can wait a few days perhaps if there's something you'd like me to test... I can't really promise much with the cables, since I don't know how they are wired, and don't have the skills or knowledge to figure that out for myself. I did try the unit with a 9 volt power supply, and saw no differences. I might could test something else, but I won't be able to until after the weekend.

I'm still very interested in this project! I would love for it to work out, so I will test another thing or two, but unless there's a quick/easy fix, I don't think its current configuration works for my needs right now, since I need the image position to be consistent for video editing and streaming purposes.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:11 am 


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Location: US, MI
Forks wrote:
I was actually just about to message you about checking to be sure that I can still return the unit... I've just been so busy that I haven't gotten around to it. I was going to return it tomorrow, but I can wait a few days perhaps if there's something you'd like me to test... I can't really promise much with the cables, since I don't know how they are wired, and don't have the skills or knowledge to figure that out for myself. I did try the unit with a 9 volt power supply, and saw no differences. I might could test something else, but I won't be able to until after the weekend.

I'm still very interested in this project! I would love for it to work out, so I will test another thing or two, but unless there's a quick/easy fix, I don't think its current configuration works for my needs right now, since I need the image position to be consistent for video editing and streaming purposes.

That was rude. Return the unit, no kidding?
One month passed, no single message from you. I've been extremely busy these days / weeks / months and yet I've managed to find the time to take out my oscilloscope and SNES US unit from the storage and do measurements just to debug _YOURS_ problem? And guess what I've found - I've found no problem. I wasted two evenings testing this and that and SNES works fine without lm1881. Obviously poor mods and incorrect cables may be unsupported, it's impossible to cover everything. I'm trying to do my best but if you don't cooperate I can't do anything. If you don't know how your cables are wired, you shouldn't buy the switch. This is retro baby, this is RGB, you're supposed to know the basics of it.
As of now it doesn't look like you want to solve your problem, it looks like you just borrow the switch for a month to try it.

What a disgrace, I'm wasting so much time to try to solve those "issues" and in 99% cases there are problems with console / cable / brain / hands.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:17 pm 


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Quote:
I'm still very interested in this project! I would love for it to work out, so I will test another thing or two, but unless there's a quick/easy fix, I don't think its current configuration works for my needs right now, since I need the image position to be consistent for video editing and streaming purposes.


Image

Sorry couldn't resist.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:27 pm 



Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 30
Forks wrote:
superg wrote:
Hey Forks,

I've just checked fat SNES US with switch and it works well with lm1881 turned OFF.
Please check your cable (you should have there three 220uF capacitors and 180Ohm resistor)
Also make sure your SNES power supply provide enough voltage, I've just had seen visual problems using cheap impulse power supply.


I was actually just about to message you about checking to be sure that I can still return the unit... I've just been so busy that I haven't gotten around to it. I was going to return it tomorrow, but I can wait a few days perhaps if there's something you'd like me to test... I can't really promise much with the cables, since I don't know how they are wired, and don't have the skills or knowledge to figure that out for myself. I did try the unit with a 9 volt power supply, and saw no differences. I might could test something else, but I won't be able to until after the weekend.

I'm still very interested in this project! I would love for it to work out, so I will test another thing or two, but unless there's a quick/easy fix, I don't think its current configuration works for my needs right now, since I need the image position to be consistent for video editing and streaming purposes.


I will buy it from you for $20 if you don't want it :-)


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:10 pm 


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Reading back over this and keeping in mind how RGB is I find it hard to believe everything lines up exactly even without a switch in the chain. However the most alarming bit is this SNES that is using a clean sync cable that won't work without the sync stripper turned on. There's definitely something not right there. I'd try another SNES console.

Are you using a clean sync cable on your Megadrive too Forks? Does your SCART to Mini adapter have a sync cleaner in it?
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:26 am 



Joined: 15 Sep 2014
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Hi superg,

First time poster, just getting back into my old consoles after many years of having them packed away. I need a switcher that supports at least 6 RGB SCART connections and the gscartsw looks like the business. I'm electronics savvy and understand the caveats and your no returns policy. Ready to pay $120 plus UK postage and transfer fees via PayPal when you reopen pre-orders.

Really excited to get one of these and not a time waster.

Thanks,
Beatnik (Andy, UK)


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:56 pm 


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Posts: 1206
Location: US, MI
Beatnik wrote:
Hi superg,

First time poster, just getting back into my old consoles after many years of having them packed away. I need a switcher that supports at least 6 RGB SCART connections and the gscartsw looks like the business. I'm electronics savvy and understand the caveats and your no returns policy. Ready to pay $120 plus UK postage and transfer fees via PayPal when you reopen pre-orders.

Really excited to get one of these and not a time waster.

Thanks,
Beatnik (Andy, UK)

As I've said in the first post I currently do not accept pre-orders.
There are too many people in the list now.
Also that "waiting list" idea isn't as good as I've thought first. 50% of people from list aren't buying. I still have 2 switches left and I'm wasting my time PM'ing next person in the list and waiting for 3 days for the reply.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:12 pm 


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superg wrote:
That was rude. Return the unit, no kidding?
One month passed, no single message from you. I've been extremely busy these days / weeks / months and yet I've managed to find the time to take out my oscilloscope and SNES US unit from the storage and do measurements just to debug _YOURS_ problem? And guess what I've found - I've found no problem. I wasted two evenings testing this and that and SNES works fine without lm1881. Obviously poor mods and incorrect cables may be unsupported, it's impossible to cover everything. I'm trying to do my best but if you don't cooperate I can't do anything. If you don't know how your cables are wired, you shouldn't buy the switch. This is retro baby, this is RGB, you're supposed to know the basics of it.
As of now it doesn't look like you want to solve your problem, it looks like you just borrow the switch for a month to try it.

What a disgrace, I'm wasting so much time to try to solve those "issues" and in 99% cases there are problems with console / cable / brain / hands.


I apologize. I have obviously taken the wrong approach here, and I've misunderstood. I didn't at all understand that you were expending effort on solving my issues in particular. Rather, I thought you were taking the things that I had mentioned as part of continued efforts to optimize the switcher.

I also apologize that it's been yet again a while since I replied. Things are finally starting to cool down for me, but I've been so stressed and busy that this issue hasn't even crossed my mind at times when I was able to access the forum and check in. Not a good excuse, but that's why I forgot. I feel really bad about it.

I would love to make this work out for me, so let's forget that I said anything about maybe returning it. I'll work on getting the switcher back into my setup, I'll re-investigate how my cables are wired, and try to learn and understand why things might be working one way or another.

I got into RGB because I like retro consoles, I like good video quality, and it's accessible even to people who don't fully understand the electronic workings of the hardware. You can buy monitors or scalers that support it, you can buy cables from people who know how to make them, and you can hire modders to solder RGB mods if you've got no experience with it. From my point of view, it's about the results I can get from using RGB, not the tinkering aspect. When I build a computer, I know what parts to buy, and I know to put it together. I don't fully understand how those parts work, but I can appreciate the result. I see this as the same thing. RGB doesn't have to be just for people who know how to physically tweak and modify electronic equipment. For someone who doesn't have that knowledge, or those skills, getting this far with RGB has been enough of a challenge as it is.

I may need to buy new cables, or learn more about how the cables are made. Like I said, I'll look into what I have. I can't promise I'll understand right away what I have, or what's doing what, or why, but I can try my best to learn more.

I'm really sorry that I didn't think things through when I sent the previous message, and I'll do my best to be more active in getting through these issues.

BuckoA51 wrote:
Reading back over this and keeping in mind how RGB is I find it hard to believe everything lines up exactly even without a switch in the chain. However the most alarming bit is this SNES that is using a clean sync cable that won't work without the sync stripper turned on. There's definitely something not right there. I'd try another SNES console.

Are you using a clean sync cable on your Megadrive too Forks? Does your SCART to Mini adapter have a sync cleaner in it?


I can't check the descriptions anymore of the items I bought (they were bought over a year ago from Retro_Console_Accessories), but the adapter listing was "Micomsoft XRGB Mini Sync booster for Euro SCART to XRGB Mini 8 pin" and the Genesis one is "Sega Genesis 1 Megadrive 1 stereo RGB SCART TV lead" ... I have no idea if much can be discerned from that information.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:06 pm 


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Okay, I'd start by ditching the SCART to Mini adapter with the sync stripper built in, unless its one of those that gets its power by piggy backing the Mini's power.

Your Genesis cable is composite video for sync, you will get a significant improvement by swapping it for a clean sync one. The absolute best on the market is the Pack a Punch cable Retro Gaming Cables do but that's probably overkill, any correctly wired clean sync cable will work. (see the colour bleed test I captured here with each type of cable to see what a difference clean sync makes on the Genesis - http://www.videogameperfection.com/2014 ... ve-stereo/ )

Also I don't think people here are expecting you to know how things work on a component level, but just being able to open a cable and see where things are wired or even use a multi-meter to see if something is connected for instance shouldn't be too much to ask.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:52 pm 


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Yeah. Most likely the reason your snes isn't working is the adapter cable. Get one without a sync stripper or remove it from the one you have.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:01 pm 


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BuckoA51 wrote:
Okay, I'd start by ditching the SCART to Mini adapter with the sync stripper built in, unless its one of those that gets its power by piggy backing the Mini's power.

Your Genesis cable is composite video for sync, you will get a significant improvement by swapping it for a clean sync one. The absolute best on the market is the Pack a Punch cable Retro Gaming Cables do but that's probably overkill, any correctly wired clean sync cable will work. (see the colour bleed test I captured here with each type of cable to see what a difference clean sync makes on the Genesis - http://www.videogameperfection.com/2014 ... ve-stereo/ )

Also I don't think people here are expecting you to know how things work on a component level, but just being able to open a cable and see where things are wired or even use a multi-meter to see if something is connected for instance shouldn't be too much to ask.


I'll look into this.

One question that's a big unknown for me is if my male-to-male SCART cable that connects from the switcher to the adapter is just as good as any other, or not. My relatively uninformed assumption would be that a pin on one end is connected to the same pin on the other end, so I would assume that it just extends the same signal it received...? But if not, should I be looking for a particular type of male-to-male SCART?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:17 pm 


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Fairly unlikely that a straight SCART cable is causing any issues, unless you bought a really cheap Chinese one.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:44 am 



Joined: 15 Sep 2014
Posts: 2
superg wrote:
As I've said in the first post I currently do not accept pre-orders.
There are too many people in the list now.
Also that "waiting list" idea isn't as good as I've thought first. 50% of people from list aren't buying. I still have 2 switches left and I'm wasting my time PM'ing next person in the list and waiting for 3 days for the reply.


Thanks for replying superg, I've got money waiting right now if you want to sell one of the spare ones. I can transfer today. Otherwise I'll patiently wait until you reopen preorders.

Many thanks,
Andy.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:33 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2014
Posts: 3
Location: Orlando FL
Sorry to bother you, but I'm just curious if there is an update on when you expect to start selling again. I'm in the middle of setting up my game room and won't be getting a switch until this one is available again. Thanks for any reply and for making this for the communit.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:59 am 



Joined: 11 Nov 2014
Posts: 3
Location: Orlando FL
I was just curious if there are any updates on when the next batch should be ready. I don't want to miss out on this because I really need a high quality switch with at least 7 inputs. Thank you for any information you can give, I really appreciate it.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 3:53 pm 


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tpunk wrote:
I was just curious if there are any updates on when the next batch should be ready. I don't want to miss out on this because I really need a high quality switch with at least 7 inputs. Thank you for any information you can give, I really appreciate it.

I'm doing design changes for next (and last) version of the switch.
I can work on it only on a weekend and few last weekends were busy with real life.
Currently I am troubleshooting LM1881 issue (slightly bended image). I observe this problem everywhere where LM1881 used so it isn't really a switch problem.
It looks like it happens because of Chroma filter, I was able to affect bend angle by using different capacitors in filter circuit. I still need to perform few more tests.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:25 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
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superg wrote:
tpunk wrote:
Currently I am troubleshooting LM1881 issue (slightly bended image). I observe this problem everywhere where LM1881 used so it isn't really a switch problem.
It looks like it happens because of Chroma filter, I was able to affect bend angle by using different capacitors in filter circuit. I still need to perform few more tests.


Where does the image bend?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:37 pm 


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Taiyaki wrote:
superg wrote:
tpunk wrote:
Currently I am troubleshooting LM1881 issue (slightly bended image). I observe this problem everywhere where LM1881 used so it isn't really a switch problem.
It looks like it happens because of Chroma filter, I was able to affect bend angle by using different capacitors in filter circuit. I still need to perform few more tests.


Where does the image bend?

Check top right corner when using big fat NTSC SNES with LM1881 turned on.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:56 am 



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 673
I see. I just checked and I don't notice anything wrong at all. I'm using Csync but I have a 1 chip Super Famicom. Maybe it doesn't affect it the Japanese version.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:20 pm 


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Taiyaki wrote:
I see. I just checked and I don't notice anything wrong at all. I'm using Csync but I have a 1 chip Super Famicom. Maybe it doesn't affect it the Japanese version.

Yeah, it doesn't happen for everybody, depends on a lot of things.
Thanks for trying though.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:50 am 



Joined: 18 Oct 2014
Posts: 10
superg wrote:
tpunk wrote:
I was just curious if there are any updates on when the next batch should be ready. I don't want to miss out on this because I really need a high quality switch with at least 7 inputs. Thank you for any information you can give, I really appreciate it.

I'm doing design changes for next (and last) version of the switch.
I can work on it only on a weekend and few last weekends were busy with real life.
Currently I am troubleshooting LM1881 issue (slightly bended image). I observe this problem everywhere where LM1881 used so it isn't really a switch problem.
It looks like it happens because of Chroma filter, I was able to affect bend angle by using different capacitors in filter circuit. I still need to perform few more tests.

Is this specific to the LM1881 or also other sync separators as well? Have you tried a EL1883 or ISL59885?


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:13 pm 


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jskyboo wrote:
superg wrote:
tpunk wrote:
I was just curious if there are any updates on when the next batch should be ready. I don't want to miss out on this because I really need a high quality switch with at least 7 inputs. Thank you for any information you can give, I really appreciate it.

I'm doing design changes for next (and last) version of the switch.
I can work on it only on a weekend and few last weekends were busy with real life.
Currently I am troubleshooting LM1881 issue (slightly bended image). I observe this problem everywhere where LM1881 used so it isn't really a switch problem.
It looks like it happens because of Chroma filter, I was able to affect bend angle by using different capacitors in filter circuit. I still need to perform few more tests.

Is this specific to the LM1881 or also other sync separators as well? Have you tried a EL1883 or ISL59885?

Didn't tried ISL59885 but EL1883 is affected too.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:07 pm 



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Posts: 110
I'm curious as to why SCART is so beloved as the connector, and why more people don't get the best of all worlds with BNC connectors.

Currently, I'm forced to use SCART in order to get my beloved RGB signals from my multitude of systems, but it has to be said that they are tremendously bulky and annoying to wire, and any switcher like my Bandridge Auto-switch that uses SCART input/output just adds more fuel on that particular fire.

And yet, while I can find (insert RGB console here)-to-BNC cables, the same cannot be said for RGB BNC switches. This befuddles me...
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 3:18 pm 



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Because you can buy good quality professionally manufactured first/third party SCART/JP21 cables for many system. Those BNC cables, though, are all something a hobbyist cobbled together from various parts, and is prolly of suspect quality.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 5:57 pm 


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Also, TVs actually have SCART inputs (at least in Europe).


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 6:46 pm 


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I don't think that US folks will ever get it. SCART was always European standard, they've never had it in the US and they cannot imagine that "big" and "bulky" 21 pin connector at the back of their TV.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:01 pm 



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Yeah, the fact that TV's with SCART inputs are available was so obvious that I forgot.

I am currently actually playing my games on a B&O via its SCART inputs.


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:26 pm 


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@superg

Hi there,

I find your SCART switch box to be very well made and you seem to have the market to yourself at the moment cause I have yet to find another switcher with so many inputs. I hope you'll keep us updated on your order status on the first post of this topic so that we may jump on the opportunity to get one.

That being said, have you ever consider making a Kickstarter to get a huge chunk of funding to mass produce these things?


Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 11:53 pm 


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Quote:
And yet, while I can find (insert RGB console here)-to-BNC cables, the same cannot be said for RGB BNC switches. This befuddles me...


Eh? Extron Crosspoint switches come up on eBay all the time. On the other hand I've never actually seen anyone selling console to BNC cables anywhere.
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 Post subject: Re: gscartsw: automatic 8:1 SCART-RGB switch
PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2014 12:27 pm 


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the_importer wrote:
@superg

Hi there,

I find your SCART switch box to be very well made and you seem to have the market to yourself at the moment cause I have yet to find another switcher with so many inputs. I hope you'll keep us updated on your order status on the first post of this topic so that we may jump on the opportunity to get one.

That being said, have you ever consider making a Kickstarter to get a huge chunk of funding to mass produce these things?


Thanks

This switch is not my primary business, it's just a hobby project. I don't have that much time to support Kickstarter campaign. And again - it's an obligation, I don't want to have that feeling.
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