SCART Switches and Game Consoles

[hosser]

I have the Shinybow SB-5525. It's perfect. Only complaints were the price and the fact that I had to do an old-fashioned telegraphic transfer to the Czech republic in order to pay them as they don't accept PayPal or cards. Very happy with it though, and since it has two outputs I can have one console output to my PVM and another (or the same) console on my HDTV at the same time.

That thing always confused the hell out of me. Does it actually output 2 identical signals simultaneously? Like a proper splitter? I always got the feeling that the 2 outputs were connected to seperate inputs.

Yep, it does. It's a matrix switcher so it's basically a switcher and splitter in one.

[werk91]

Otherwise I've read that this one also gives zero interference : Twin Scart Adapter 2 Way Adapter Switch Box , but its only 2 ports in unfortunately..

I received this yesterday and one it works perfectly as a switcher with no interference and quality loss also it does the same when used as a splitter. One thing to keep in mind: If used with cheap Scart cable while its a splitter it does introduce some ghosting and noise. I feed the input(labeled output) with my Madcatz switcher and then split the signal to HDTV and CRT Monitor with GBS8200 + SyncStrike. If one of the inputs on the MadCatz is with a cheap cable that input will have noise (which I don't get without splitting the signal when using the Madcatz alone). If everything is using good cables there is no interference...

I was wrong. Last night I got right up to the TV and on the Wii menu there are some scrolling lines on some backgrounds that are absolutely impossible to notice if you're sitting away from the TV and even harder in games. I'm waiting for my new PS2 Scart Sync on Luma to arrive today and will test with that and see if the shielding helps. I will have to test again by I think the Wii had no artefacts when used with Sync Strike on my CRT monitor. The Wii is with the official Scart cable which I'd expect is well shielded but have never actually looked inside.

Seeing that the Megadrive 2 has a CSYNC Scart that is making me think that the LM1881 chip is actually clearing all of those interference issues... The MD2 is the only console of the three that has no difference in picture whether its directly in the TV /SyncStrike or going through the two different switchers. Guess I could solder myself that chip inside a female to male cable so I don't have to break the bank buying a composite sync cable for each console.
Why is no one selling this already ?

I'm just trying to figure out whether the lack of shielding introduces the problems or the lack of composite sync signal.

[AndehX]

Guess I could solder myself that chip inside a female to male cable so I don't have to break the bank buying a composite sync cable for each console.
Why is no one selling this already ?

Thats exactly what I did. Took the LM1881 out of my SCART to BNC adapter, and put it in SCART male to female cable, so that any console I connect to my monitor/framemeister, goes through the LM1881.
Oddly enough though, my gamecube produces a "no sync" message on my monitor when going through it.

[werk91]

What consoles have you tested this with ? Was it an easy soldering job ?

All video game console RGB SCART cables from Retro Gaming Cables are compatible with the video sync separator version except the Nintendo GameCube.

I have noticed that retro gaming cables co uk doesn't offer the Gamecube scart with CSYNC which could indicate there's something different about the signal. Maybe the console already outputs raw sync or there isn't power on pin 8 so the chip doesn't switch on ?

[AndehX]

What consoles have you tested this with ? Was it an easy soldering job ?

All video game console RGB SCART cables from Retro Gaming Cables are compatible with the video sync separator version except the Nintendo GameCube.

I have noticed that retro gaming cables co uk doesn't offer the Gamecube scart with CSYNC which could indicate there's something different about the signal. Maybe the console already outputs raw sync or there isn't power on pin 8 so the chip doesn't switch on ?

It was a pretty simple soldering job, yes, as long as you know where to solder.

The Gamecube only outputs standard composite video sync, but that is interesting because at first, I was running my Gamecube through my Scart Distribution Amplifier, then through the SCART to BNC adapter (with LM1881) and it worked fine.
So my guess is the that distribution amplifier was doing something to the sync signal from the Gamecube, which made it work, because putting the LM1881 before the distribution amplifier, stops it from working. Hmmm...

[bobrocks95]

I wonder why third party sellers don't offer D-Sub 15 cables for old consoles. VGA switches are much more common than SCART ones aren't they? And adapters just add to the cost, clutter, and potential signal loss since you're running SCART a good distance.

Why not D-Sub 15 plus a 3.5mm jack for audio? People who have ditched SCART have made similar cables for themselves.

EDIT: I see Retro_Console_Accessories offers one such cable for SNES. Not sure why this hasn't caught on more.

[CkRtech]

Why not D-Sub 15 plus a 3.5mm jack for audio? People who have ditched SCART have made similar cables for themselves.

Yeah! I am one that went that route and really enjoy having an easy switch for it.

EDIT: I see Retro_Console_Accessories offers one such cable for SNES. Not sure why this hasn't caught on more.

I think one thing that is an advantage for them when using SCART for RGB is that the SCART plug allows for caps and resistors - items that may or may not be required depending on which console you are targeting for your cables. I haven't had too much trouble yet, but most of the cables I have made use the larger DIN (Turbo Duo, Genesis, MSX) or the larger, SNES multiout and can fit the components at the console end of the cable.

[bobrocks95]

Yeah! I am one that went that route and really enjoy having an easy switch for it.

Nice, did you fully DIY all your cables then? Maybe gutted another and modified it?

I think one thing that is an advantage for them when using SCART for RGB is that the SCART plug allows for caps and resistors - items that may or may not be required depending on which console you are targeting for your cables. I haven't had too much trouble yet, but most of the cables I have made use the larger DIN (Turbo Duo, Genesis, MSX) or the larger, SNES multiout and can fit the components at the console end of the cable.

This is a fair point. The SNES one I mentioned said it had caps in it, and who know what end of the cable they were stuffed into. The VGA end is quite long however, it seems feasible enough. I should probably look around on some forums, maybe somebody makes and sells them.

[CkRtech]

Yeah! I am one that went that route and really enjoy having an easy switch for it.

Nice, did you fully DIY all your cables then? Maybe gutted another and modified it?

Yes. I bought some shielded VGA cables online for cheap, cut one end off, and wired up the appropriate connector. You can pick up 8 pin DINs for both Genesis and standard DIN8 style (slightly different pin orientation). Tim Worthington sells the Saturn mini-din 10 plugs. I cannibalized a couple of SNES composite cables to make the SNES one, although now I think you can pick those plugs up from Helder? I haven't ordered from him, but that might be a less destructive way to create the cables.

Also consider the fact that you can re-purpose RF breakout boxes to hold your components - So making a PSX RGB out using an RF box will let you put your 3 capacitors and your LM1881 (if you want csync) all inside a little box. At this point, you can just mount an HD-15 connector on the breakout box and use any VGA cable you want to deliver the signal rather than choosing a single length of cable and hacking up the end of it.

I have never gone over 6' with my cables, but I have also created a "guest plug" at the front of my setup so I can hook-up consoles I keep on a separate shelf at random. The guest is a 3' extension cable, and I haven't noticed any degradation going 6' + 3' = 9' with those cables.

[bobrocks95]

Hadn't thought of a breakout box, that would actually be pretty easy to custom-build. I'll start looking into it, thanks for the suggestion. Plenty of crappy old RF boxes lying around.

[werk91]

I did some more testing with my setup last night and these are my results :

MD2 in HDTV through scart switchers = no quality loss, perfect picture
MD2 in CRT monitor through scart switchers and SyncStrike+GBS8200 = no quality loss, perfect picture

The CSYNC scart cable for it most likely helps with the HDTV but since its the only cable I have for that console I can't be sure.

Wii in HDTV through scart switchers = no colour or brightness loss but weird diagonal lines on backgrounds(can't notice it when on the sofa as its a 46" HDTV)
Wii in CRT monitor through scart switchers and SyncStrike+GBS8200 = no quality loss, perfect picture

It seems the Wii certainly benefits from the sync stripping inside the SyncStrike. Unfortunately CSYNC scart cable is out of stock and nowhere to be found.

PS2 in HDTV through scart switchers = no colour or brightness loss but slight ghosting
PS2 in CRT monitor thtough scart switchers and SyncStrike+GBS8200 = no colour or brightness loss but ghosting (just a bit less so)

Guess the PS2 is just a noisy console and no matter how good of a scart cable you use ( I tried this with a standard not too cheap one and a well shielded sync on luma one ) the signal is just prone to interference. I really doubt me spending another ~20£ for a CSYNC PS2 scart cable will help at all. Most of those issues are hard to notice when playing from a distance but since I know they're there it is kind of not great to have them. For now I think I will try a female to female coupler and switching the cable from the Madcatz switcher to either screen's scart cable. Not as easy as just pushing a button but at least picture should be spot on.

Those VGA cables for each console sound like a better alternative but not for people like me who have never soldered before..
I found a bunch of generic scart to VGA cables on Amazon : Scart to VGA

Even if I manage to plug a console's scart cable in one of those with a coupler and then connect that through a VGA switcher how am I supposed to go back to scart on the output ? Surely using the same cable the other way won't work ? It seems fairly complicated a setup to pull off and there's still the audio to include in this as well

marqs DIY scandoubler could resolve all my troubles as the DVI-D output will be fairly easy to split I imagine and then one output downscaled to analogue VGA for my CRT monitor

[RGB0b]

I've helped a few friends build setups using either VGA cables, or BNC cables. The VGA cable setup used an Aten 16-port switch and the BNC used a 24-port Extron Crosspoint. The Crosspoint is a matrix switch, so it was pretty amazing; Each input can be routed to any combination of 8 outputs, so without touching a single cable, he could output to his RGB monitor, Extron Super Emotia, capture card or upscaler. The only downside was the switch is HUGE and working with BNC cables was a bit of a pain.

The VGA setup worked awesome, but didn't support component video, so he had to buy two component-to-VGA converters to properly use all the ports. I highly recommend either solution for anyone who's able to make their own cables.

[bobrocks95]

Those VGA cables for each console sound like a better alternative but not for people like me who have never soldered before..
I found a bunch of generic scart to VGA cables on Amazon : Scart to VGA

Even if I manage to plug a console's scart cable in one of those with a coupler and then connect that through a VGA switcher how am I supposed to go back to scart on the output ? Surely using the same cable the other way won't work ? It seems fairly complicated a setup to pull off and there's still the audio to include in this as well

marqs DIY scandoubler could resolve all my troubles as the DVI-D output will be fairly easy to split I imagine and then one output downscaled to analogue VGA for my CRT monitor

The idea to switch to another connector instead of SCART is probably more skewed towards Americans who don't have a SCART input on their televisions to begin with. If you look around enough, being in the UK you're much more likely to find a used, high-quality SCART switch on ebay or craigslist, while here we're stuck with DIY community efforts or importing the more common and lower quality SCART switches.

There's still the problem of carrying the audio lines so close to video lines in a SCART connector, but a little buzzing alone is a pretty drastic reason to rewire your entire setup.

[werk91]

Well I have tried even more combinations with the switcher boxes and my final word is that raw sync is the only way to get stable picture if you're going to be using any switching. Even with only the Wii plugged into my Madcatz switcher (supposedly no degradation) lines appear jagged and there's stripes on solid colours.

I can say the same for the cheap 2 to 1 switcher I bought on Ebay that was supposed to have no noise too. When a csync signal is used (my Megadrive) there's no issues. The cheap switcher even has colour and brightness issues unless it's used with csync signal. Seeing that its also very console specific I just need to solder that LM1881 chip on the end of maybe the switcher cable or just a short scart extension and be done with it.. The only other affordable switcher I haven't tried is the Hama 100S and I've read good opinions about those even when used daisychained but I kinda reckon it'll turn out those people had csync so I'll stop throwing my money at the problem for now.

@bobrocks, the more I research high quality switchers the more I find they all have some sort of problems The Banbridge one is not good apparently, the Shinybow SB5525 adds wobble and I also saw with my own eyes that even the well praised Madcatz one is not that good unless you use raw sync. I found this 129$ Shinybow SB5520 Matrix Routing Switch but it could very well suffer from the same problems that the SB5525 has. Also last time I checked shipping from US was still ridiculous for anything bigger than a CD

As far as the audio I guess my amplifier is taking care of any buzz since I've never heard any.

[bobrocks95]

@bobrocks, the more I research high quality switchers the more I find they all have some sort of problems The Banbridge one is not good apparently, the Shinybow SB5525 adds wobble and I also saw with my own eyes that even the well praised Madcatz one is not that good unless you use raw sync. I found this 129$ Shinybow SB5520 Matrix Routing Switch but it could very well suffer from the same problems that the SB5525 has. Also last time I checked shipping from US was still ridiculous for anything bigger than a CD

As far as the audio I guess my amplifier is taking care of any buzz since I've never heard any.

Hmm, there aren't any industrial/commercial options? That Shinybow looks pretty cheaply made for its price. I guess SCART was never used at the professional level like BNC, VGA, etc were.

[werk91]

Nope, scart has always been just for standard users to connect their VCR to the CRT etc. Although I do still remember my amazement when I changed my composite cables for scart the first time.

Just realised I don't need to solder any sync stripper chip because I already have a perfectly working one...

My SyncStrike has VGA out which I can easily switch between two outputs. Question is will VGA switchers(they can work as splitters too right?) work with the output from the SyncStrike and will a normal Scart to VGA cable out from the switcher box work so I can plug the raw sync signal in the HDTV? My idea is basically:

Consoles->Madcatz Switcher->SyncStrike->VGA Splitter->VGA to Scart Cable->HDTV

The second output of the VGA splitter can be connected to the scaler and CRT monitor. I do hope this is possible.

[axlblazeadam]

I have a very strange issue with my Hama 100S switchers in combination with my Gamecube and Sega Saturn cables (bought from retrogamingcables). I actually tried several Saturn cables.

If i connect these cables to my Hama 100S, which is hooked up to the XRGB Mini, the picture looks great, no visible noise whatsoever. But, when i start to daisy chain my two Hama 100S units, the signal gets noise that looks like a sort of moving moire effect.

Now here comes the strange part:

You might think the scart cables that connect the Hama units are faulty. I tried swapping these cables with high quality ones, but no luck. Also checked if one of the Hama units was causing the noise, but they are all perfectly fine. I connected all my other consoles (NES, SNES, SMS, Megadrive, PS1, Dreamcast) and none of these have problems with the noise, even when i daisy chain multiple Hama units. The picture is clear and noise-free!

There must be something weird happening with the combination of the Gamecube and Saturn cable and daisy chaining the scart switchers.

Any idea what his could be? There's nothing wrong with the cables or the Hama switchers, i totally ruled that out now.

[werk91]

It seems the the Gamecube's Scart is definitely problematic.. Do any of the working consoles have a sync stripper in their cables/before the Hama? Also have you ever tried to use one Hama unit as a splitter i.e. to reverse the inputs as output?

I'm still waiting on someone to advise me whether my idea will work before I go and purchase all the extra cables and equipment

[Thomago]

I But, when i start to daisy chain my two Hama 100S units, the signal gets noise that looks like a sort of moving moire effect.

It seems the the Gamecube's Scart is definitely problematic.. Do any of the working consoles have a sync stripper in their cables/before the Hama? Also have you ever tried to use one Hama unit as a splitter i.e. to reverse the inputs as output?

Yeah. I get a moving moire effect even if I connect my Gamecube directly to my Framemeister. A sync stripper helps here.

[axlblazeadam]

Yeah. I get a moving moire effect even if I connect my Gamecube directly to my Framemeister. A sync stripper helps here.

I don't get that moire effect if i connect it directly to my Framemeister.
I even don't get it when i use just one Hama switch.
The problem starts when i daisy chain two Hama switches, but only with my Gamecube and Saturn cables.

[axlblazeadam]

It seems the the Gamecube's Scart is definitely problematic.. Do any of the working consoles have a sync stripper in their cables/before the Hama? Also have you ever tried to use one Hama unit as a splitter i.e. to reverse the inputs as output?

I'm still waiting on someone to advise me whether my idea will work before I go and purchase all the extra cables and equipment

I don't know if the working consoles have sync strippers in the cables. I bought them all from retrogamingcables.
How do you use the Hama as a splitter, i've never heard of this function before?

[AndehX]

My Gamecube refuses to work with a sync stripper, but only if I put the sync stripper before the splitter. If I put it after the splitter, it seems to work fine.

[axlblazeadam]

My Gamecube refuses to work with a sync stripper, but only if I put the sync stripper before the splitter. If I put it after the splitter, it seems to work fine.

Not really sure if this has to do with sync. It looks more like a ground issue, but i can't figure out where it comes from since all components work fine without daisy chaining.

[AndehX]

Well my sync stripper is grounded to the outter shielding on the scart connector, im assuming its ok to ground it that way?

[werk91]

I don't know if the working consoles have sync strippers in the cables. I bought them all from retrogamingcables. How do you use the Hama as a splitter, i've never heard of this function before?

Your Gamecube cable won't have it most likely but the Saturn cable might as its available in the drop down menu when you order a NTSC Sarurn cable from retrogamingcables. Should also say it on the label that's stickered to the Scart plug. As for the using a Scart switcher as a splitter I only recently found out myself and it does work. All you need to do is use the output of the Hama as input i.e plug a source there (your other Hama switcher even) and then the usual 3 input ports become outputs that can be used for three different displays for example. I asked this because I was curious as to how the Hama 100S performs when being daisychained since I have noise issues when using my scart switchers in that way.

[AndehX]

As for the using a Scart switcher as a splitter I only recently found out myself and it does work. All you need to do is use the output of the Hama as input i.e plug a source there (your other Hama switcher even) and then the usual 3 input ports become outputs that can be used for three different displays for example. I asked this because I was curious as to how the Hama 100S performs when being daisychained since I have noise issues when using my scart switchers in that way.

Does that really work? Surely there would be signal loss as it isnt designed to split the signal 3 ways....

[werk91]

If you're using good quality switchers its not supposed to have any. I have tried it myself and if the setup is right there is no signal loss. If you do find the time and end up trying it let me know what are the results as its very dependant on the particular cables, switchers, consoles etc.

[bobrocks95]

Isn't the Hama unpowered? A passive splitter incurs a huge brightness loss, you're increasing the resistance by 3x I believe.

[axlblazeadam]

Isn't the Hama unpowered? A passive splitter incurs a huge brightness loss, you're increasing the resistance by 3x I believe.

Yes the Hama is unpowered, but to be honest i don't see any brightness loss. The brightness is exactly the same if i connect to the Framemeister directly, or daisy chain it.

My problem is the noise that only occurs with the Gamecube and Saturn. All other consoles give a crisp and clean picture. And as i said before, the cables from the Gamecube and Saturn are fine. The Hama's and connecting scart cables too! It's the combination of the GC/Saturn cable with the daisy chained Hama's that somehow is the problem.

[bobrocks95]

Yes the Hama is unpowered, but to be honest i don't see any brightness loss. The brightness is exactly the same if i connect to the Framemeister directly, or daisy chain it.

Are you using it as a one input, 3 output splitter like werk91 was talking about? That's what I'm saying would incur a huge brightness loss.

A properly made passive mechanical switch, when used as a switch and not backwards, shouldn't have brightness loss, no.