RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by Fudoh »

Got my Retron today (via Amazon.com with expedited shipping) - everybody else got their's by now ?

Here are a few impressions of mine after running the sytem with a cart from each system.

- the unit feels cheap (too light), but I guess most clone systems felt this way. Putting a steel plate into the system might help. The included controller is OK, I like the clicky NGCD-style "d-pad", but I dislike the buttons - they need to be pressed to far down to register. The shoulder buttons are horrible and - again - the controller is too light. But hey, I paid about 77 EUR shipping and taxes included, so I won't complain....

- I absolutely dislike the fact that you're supposed to insert carts while the unit is on. Just feels wrong after using cart-based consoles for 30 years and manufacturers always begging you not to pull carts while the system's running.

- the boot sequence takes a bit too long. Also the Retron's initially starting in 1080p and then switches down to 720p.

- Carts fit nicely. MD/GEN carts are a tighter fit than the remaining systems (at least on my unit). All carts I tried registered on the first try and were correctly recognized.

- Filters are what they're. Same as in your average emu from 10-15 years ago.

- Music and effects sound good to me.

- Disabling the "force original resolution" option will scale the game to fit the screen vertically - always. Meaning you get integer scaling for NES games, but non-integer next neighbour scaling for everything else (e.g. 224 to 720 for MD and SNES).

- Unfortunately you cannot get 1:3 line scaling (what you get with force original resolution) while maintaining a better horizontal size (or aspect ratio). In other words: Force original resolution works GREAT on GBA, but gives you rather square images with NES or SNES. *

- the Scaling engine is rather bad, causing scrolling artefacts with non-integer scaling factors. Not terribly bad on the horizontal, but bad with vertically scrolling games (with original resolution disabled). If Hyperkin wants to stick to this scaling engine (without any oversampling), they better add 1080p support. It would help.

- Scanlines are messy. They're not applied on a source-pixel basis, but just a 720p raster overlay. On NES games (since the NES has 240p output resolution) you at least ONE scanline per pixel row, but on all other systems the alignment is completely off, so the scanlines just cut in where they like. Doesn't look good. The scanline density isn't adjustable, also the scanlines are applied to the MIDDLE of each 240p row (which looks really weird). If Hyperkin moved the scanlines UP or DOWN just one single line and allowed adjustable density, they scanlines would be as nice as on the Framemeister (for the NES and for MD and SNES with enabled 'force original res.'). For scanlines on GBA games, they would have to add a different overlay (two dark rows for every four lines, since the GBA games are running with 1:4 scaling with forced original resolution). It would look really good.

- Emulation is laggy. I player Super Aleste and it easily feels three frames slower than a SNES/Framemeister combo, borderline to unplayable on a slower TV.


As of now, I think the Retron5's a nice gimmick. For me "force original resolution" is a must. Unfortunately this causes rather bad AR for NES and SNES games. GBA runs and looks great, already better than any other solution so far, including any Cube/GBPlayer attempt, any 240p conversion (Emotia) or RGB-modding a real GBA. On a fast TV, emulation might be just fast enough. On a laggy TV the added emulation lag is nearly killing it (certainly depending on the game as well).

Instead of providing a bad scanline overlay without any afterthoughts, they should give users the possibility to put a custom overlay onto the SD card. Can't be too hard and I doubt that it would cause any problems with the system's integrity.

(* with enforced original resolution MD games output as square as SNES games do - which I don't really understand, since the MD's native res should be 320x224 compared to the 256x224 of the SNES. Don't know what's going wrong there.....)
Last edited by Fudoh on Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Kyle
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:22 pm

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by Kyle »

Thanks Fudoh. There's a thread on NintendoAge where they suggest chatting directly with the developer via Facebook. You should be able to explain to him how to correct the scanlines.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100005440995949

http://nintendoage.com/forum/messagevie ... did=101901
User avatar
lettuce
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, England.

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by lettuce »

Nice Fudoh, really detailed summary (if that makes sense).
User avatar
brownvim
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:24 pm
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by brownvim »

Thanks for the review Fudoh, lag kills it for me.
User avatar
slk486
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:42 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by slk486 »

Can you test if input lag is as bad with GB/GBA stuff? Really had my heart set on one, but 3 frames is unforgivable.
User avatar
lettuce
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, England.

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by lettuce »

Is Fudoh, using the supplied gamepad or an actual SNES, MD, NES pad?, as the lag might be related to the wireless pad
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by Fudoh »

Today I only used the supplied controller. I'll try a SFC controller tomorrow, but I doubt that the lag is caused by the controller. After all,it's the same tech as on "regular" consoles these days.
User avatar
BuckoA51
Posts: 3358
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:08 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by BuckoA51 »

If your capture hardware is set up could you do a few FM vs Retron 5 comparison shots?
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by Fudoh »

Maybe later this week. Aren't there plenty of Retron videos and snapshots out there already ? On first sight the scaling looks very nice. The scaling looks a bit sharper than the FM in 720p since the REtron doesn't have to apply A/D sampling to an analogue source first, so you don't get any of those blurred edges. The scanline overlay is just a fixed image. It doesn't check what's the resolution beneath and if the image has been scaled or not, so the scanlines don't match the pixel lines.
ms06fz
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:48 pm

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by ms06fz »

Fudoh wrote:Maybe later this week. Aren't there plenty of Retron videos and snapshots out there already ?
Lots of videos, but a lot of them weren't particularly in-depth. I don't recall any of them mentioning input lag, for instance, or that the scanline effect didn't align with the source pixels. When a video review brings something new to the table, that makes it useful.
Galgomite
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 6:32 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by Galgomite »

Fudoh wrote:Got my Retron today (via Amazon.com with expedited shipping) - everybody else got their's by now ?

- Emulation is laggy. I player Super Aleste and it easily feels three frames slower than a SNES/Framemeister combo, borderline to unplayable on a slower TV.
[/i])
Thanks for your analysis. I was hoping you'd publish your impressions. Interestingly, I detected far less lag playing on my retron5 than I do playing from a PC or Ouya emulator (attached to the same W900a TV). I found those devices to be unplayably laggy. Based on casual play with the wireless pad and Contra for NES, I would have put this device within a frame of the Framemeister (also on the same TV for now). Also, sitting 10+ feet away from my TV, I found the scanlines to be sufficiently light that I didn't notice the unevenness at all. (They also displayed evenly on my screen, which I find hit-and-miss on emulators.)
Fudoh, you pretty much introduced me to the concept of lag (thank you!) so I don't doubt your first impression there. Still, could it be that different emulated consoles introduce different amounts of lag?
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by Fudoh »

Still, could it be that different emulated consoles introduce different amounts of lag?
certainly. I didn't feel any major lag when playing a handful of GBA games.

The scanlines are even and while a bit on the light side, certainly looking ok by themselves - they just don't line up with the pixel rows which totally destroys the scanline concept.
User avatar
lettuce
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, England.

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by lettuce »

Got a email from FunStock today, and have confirmed the UK release date is now September.
User avatar
blizzz
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:19 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by blizzz »

This might not be interesting for many people after the bad reviews and the fact that it still hasn't released in Europe, but someone figured out the way to change the system software on the RetroN 5.

http://www.chromableedstudios.com/techn ... theretron5
User avatar
lettuce
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, England.

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by lettuce »

blizzz wrote:This might not be interesting for many people after the bad reviews and the fact that it still hasn't released in Europe, but someone figured out the way to change the system software on the RetroN 5.

http://www.chromableedstudios.com/techn ... theretron5
Interesting!!....so what does this actual mean, loading roms from SD card, or support of flash carts?
User avatar
blizzz
Posts: 1150
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:19 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by blizzz »

I don't know what his image actually does and he only provides the compiled file. This might lead to an enhanced version of the stock OS (with rom loading) or a custom linux version. I wouldn't install it at the moment until there is more information available.
User avatar
lettuce
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, England.

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by lettuce »

blizzz wrote:I don't know what his image actually does and he only provides the compiled file. This might lead to an enhanced version of the stock OS (with rom loading) or a custom linux version. I wouldn't install it at the moment until there is more information available.

No chance of that, the thing isnt even released over here yet!.......and RetroArch is seeming like a much nice option on my Gigabyte Brix system now
User avatar
brownvim
Posts: 291
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:24 pm
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by brownvim »

Retroarch made an announcement of making their own "RetroBox"

http://www.libretro.com/index.php/after ... -retrobox/

Seems like a long wait yet though.
Blit
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:43 am

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by Blit »

Fudoh wrote:Scanlines are messy. They're not applied on a source-pixel basis, but just a 720p raster overlay. On NES games (since the NES has 240p output resolution) you at least ONE scanline per pixel row, but on all other systems the alignment is completely off, so the scanlines just cut in where they like. Doesn't look good. The scanline density isn't adjustable, also the scanlines are applied to the MIDDLE of each 240p row (which looks really weird). If Hyperkin moved the scanlines UP or DOWN just one single line and allowed adjustable density, they scanlines would be as nice as on the Framemeister (for the NES and for MD and SNES with enabled 'force original res.'). For scanlines on GBA games, they would have to add a different overlay (two dark rows for every four lines, since the GBA games are running with 1:4 scaling with forced original resolution). It would look really )
Hi Fudoh,

With which firmware release did you test the RetroN 5? Have you seen improvements with more recent firmware in regards to scanlines.?

Br,
Blit
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by Fudoh »

I last updated a few weeks ago (1.5 I think). No major differences. Here's the change log: http://retron5.in/node/5

I'm sure they would mentioned any improvement on the scanline front, if they changed them.
User avatar
lettuce
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, England.

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by lettuce »

brownvim wrote:Retroarch made an announcement of making their own "RetroBox"

http://www.libretro.com/index.php/after ... -retrobox/

Seems like a long wait yet though.
Their already out, its called the Gigabyte Brix.

Not sure why anyone would ever buy one of these retrobox system it was ever made
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3460
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by bobrocks95 »

blizzz wrote:I don't know what his image actually does and he only provides the compiled file. This might lead to an enhanced version of the stock OS (with rom loading) or a custom linux version. I wouldn't install it at the moment until there is more information available.
Looks like all it does is root the device, just like you'd root your Android phone. It says it also installs the adb, which is the Android Debug Bridge, and should let you execute code from a computer connected to the Retron. It may not be very useful for your average end user, at least not right now. If you want to dig around in the code and try and modify things yourself it should be possible. Depends on how much of a tinkerer you are.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
User avatar
aoiddr
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:21 am
Location: Georgia, USA

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by aoiddr »

I finally got my black Retron 5 about two weeks ago. For what it is, it's a cool all-in-one device for quickly and easily playing actual cartridges on an HDMI tv. I sure wouldn't play them without an original controller, though, but that's a given.

The updating methods they have one system is just plain stupid, though. Why should anyone have to download a firmware update from their site, then use an SD card to get a key via the system, then go back on their site, upload that file, and then get the file you need to finish the update...? How is that ever going to work when Retron's site disappears off the face of the internet in however many years?
User avatar
waiwainl
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:23 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by waiwainl »

Better get your key soon before they go chapter 11 :-)
Visit: https://shmu.ps
Experience the National Video Game Museum in the Netherlands
User avatar
CkRtech
Posts: 668
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:30 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by CkRtech »

waiwainl wrote:Better get your key soon before they go chapter 11 :-)
Are things not going that well?
User avatar
aoiddr
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:21 am
Location: Georgia, USA

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by aoiddr »

CkRtech wrote:
waiwainl wrote:Better get your key soon before they go chapter 11 :-)
Are things not going that well?
Call me curious also. I haven't been following their facebook threads as of late.

It wouldn't surprise me that they held off sending black units to Amazon due to the pre-order pricing, though. Who knows what they ended up making per unit.
User avatar
Kyle
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:22 pm

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by Kyle »

So it turns out the Retron 5 is most likely based on RetroArch. You might as well just hook up a laptop via HDMI and use a USB to SNES adapter. A user also posted that he got it to play roms in a roundabout way via IPS patches.

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... post773178
ZellSF
Posts: 2642
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by ZellSF »

Kyle wrote:So it turns out the Retron 5 is most likely based on RetroArch. You might as well just hook up a laptop via HDMI and use a USB to SNES adapter.
That was always the case, RetroN5 is the budget option.
User avatar
BuckoA51
Posts: 3358
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:08 am
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by BuckoA51 »

So it's based on stolen/unlicensed code from Retroarch?

Lawsuit in 3...2...1....
OSSC Forums - http://www.videogameperfection.com/forums
Please check the Wiki before posting about Morph, OSSC, XRGB Mini or XRGB3 - http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/Main_Page
User avatar
Xyga
Posts: 7181
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: block

Re: RetroN 5 release updated to April 2014

Post by Xyga »

So it's not just crap it's also illegal ? :lol:
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
Post Reply