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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 9:29 pm 



Joined: 13 Aug 2013
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Xyga wrote:
SNES_is_the_Best wrote:
leaps and bounds beyond anything LCD will ever accomplish

In terms of picture quality sure, but no plasma TV ever featured an input lag as low as the current Sony W series does.

They could have, but never did. Otherwise everybody would have been gaming on plasmas for a long time.

The Sonys feature standard VA 1080p60 panels, and of course there's a degree of ghosting and motion blur, but they're still the fastest 'big' displays for gaming in terms of input/timing.
And that's all the reason why they've gathered so much attention.

It's up to the user to choose low lag over picture quality and vice-versa.
Sometimes the Panasonics make me drool, really, but now that I'm used to the the Sonys quasi-instant response times, it's hard to go back.


Yea, I know about the lag issues (I use Standard Definition CRT's exclusivly for gaming). But I figured he was OK with lag, considering that he already uses a Plasma, so that why I suggested to stick with Plasma.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:03 pm 



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SNES_is_the_Best wrote:
Yea, I know about the lag issues (I use Standard Definition CRT's exclusivly for gaming). But I figured he was OK with lag, considering that he already uses a Plasma, so that why I suggested to stick with Plasma.


I think i didn't explain well myself :) (my english and the no speak but written text)

I mainly play on my iMac 27 inch late 2011. It's (I think) an IPS LED panel that I don't have problems with. It has good saturated colors and (IMO) no blur, but dark games are a bit pain. I use Plasma to watch movies, and when I have connected the PC or XBOX or PS3 and have no problems at all: good colors and no lag or blur.

My main concern is from gaming on the iMac IPS and change to the Sony VA panel. Will I see motion blur? by the fact of not being an IPS panel.

I know I'm going to buy it anyway, but I have had very bad experiences with LED TVs :S My other options is a Panasonic VT60


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:00 pm 


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The 'old' Apple monitors aren't especially fast even for IPSes, all-in-all you'll get a similar performance from a modern VA panel.

Still.
You have to take in consideration the fact that there's the 'motion' blur, inherent to 60Hz panels, and pixel transition times (ghosting).
You'll experience quite similar motion blur effects from most 60Hz panels, it's the pixel transition times performance that are different between IPS and VA.
IPS offer averall more consistent pixel transition times, when those of VA panels vary more depending on the switching colors.
So with VA you may notice some trailing on specific colors that you wouldn't (or would less) notice on an IPS.

Personally I don't have complaints with the W6. I've had mine for about 5 months and so far no complaints with ghosting.
What makes a difference is the size of the screen of course, if you play from the same distance as with your 27" panel you'll notice the flaws more, and think the performance is poorer compared to your Apple.

In the end there are so many things to take into account that you should consider what's more important first:
Why you need a larger screen.
If you are going to play games with fast-moving objects like FPS often or not.
If other media (photo, movies) are important to you or not.

The main reason to buy a Sony W6 or W7 is: wanting a large screen with the lowest (sub-1 frame) input lag on the market. Period.
If input lag is not what's most important to you, then yes, consider other options, because those aren't the best for photo/movies/pcgaming.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 6:23 pm 



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jaildesigner wrote:
SNES_is_the_Best wrote:
Yea, I know about the lag issues (I use Standard Definition CRT's exclusivly for gaming). But I figured he was OK with lag, considering that he already uses a Plasma, so that why I suggested to stick with Plasma.


I think i didn't explain well myself :) (my english and the no speak but written text)

I mainly play on my iMac 27 inch late 2011. It's (I think) an IPS LED panel that I don't have problems with. It has good saturated colors and (IMO) no blur, but dark games are a bit pain. I use Plasma to watch movies, and when I have connected the PC or XBOX or PS3 and have no problems at all: good colors and no lag or blur.

My main concern is from gaming on the iMac IPS and change to the Sony VA panel. Will I see motion blur? by the fact of not being an IPS panel.

I know I'm going to buy it anyway, but I have had very bad experiences with LED TVs :S My other options is a Panasonic VT60


The very best IPS panels ever made were from Panasonic. They were called "IPS Alpha". They definitely have less blur than all other IPS panels (Dell, Apple, etc. I use to own an IPS Alpha and Dell 2740, and the IPS Alpha killed the Dell in all areas), . But....maybe I'm cursed because I can see the motion blur even on those panels plain as the nose on my face. They looked horrific compared to every single Plasma (and especially CRT) that I've ever laid my eyes on.

I agree with the poster above. The main reason for wanting the W6 is reduced lag. If CRT's did not exist, and if I couldn't find a lo-lag Plasma, then I would definitely get a W6 and suffer with the contrast and blur, and hope and pray that I could get used to it.

So what do you want? Low lag? Or awesome picture quality and almost no blur?

Whatever you decide, you have my best wishes.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 7:57 pm 


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SNES_is_the_Best wrote:
I agree with the poster above. The main reason for wanting the W6 is reduced lag. If CRT's did not exist, and if I couldn't find a lo-lag Plasma, then I would definitely get a W6 and suffer with the contrast and blur, and hope and pray that I could get used to it.

So what do you want? Low lag? Or awesome picture quality and almost no blur?

Contrast is pretty good on the Sonys, and the blur isn't terrible, I didn't have to pray to get used to it since it's not noticeable unless one really asks for it (playing mostly FPSes for instance).
We're not talking about 10 years old LCDs here, if the blur was unbearable on the Sonys they wouldn't be so popular among gamers.

And as Fudoh likes to remind people sometimes: even CRTs display a level of motion blur (scanlines 'blending' together on fast moving pictures).
Modern displays - including LCDs - even beat CRTs in some areas (brightness, contrast, color consistency, geometry, etc) it's just that none of the products currently available group all qualities together.
Plasma and Oled have the most pluses, yes, unfortunately the former is reaching EOL without ever having offered low-lag models, and the latter is still too new with many issues (lag, price, durability).

Perfect displays don't exist, the best one can get is a well serviced and calibrated broadcast crt monitor (good luck with that) but do we have to be so demanding with our displays that we should exclude everything that can't reach similar levels of excellence ?
We can just pick the type of monitor that fits our needs, or get several for different uses.
Plasmas or high-end LCD TVs for movies
ISP & VA LCD TVs & monitors for versatility
High-HZ TN monitors for PC gaming
CRT TVs/arcade/broadcast monitors for retrogaming
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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 3:44 am 


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Xyga wrote:
Oh and by the way; confirmation that the 2014 W6 is definitely not like the 2013's W6, nor 2014's W7 etc;
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kdl40w605b-201404233740.htm
Good, but lacks the super low input lag.


So I should be looking elsewhere for a really low-lag HDTV this year? Has anything else notable (i.e. on-par with the 2013 W series) popped up recently?


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 5:34 am 


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Well the W7 series is pretty much the 'new' W6, with even a little less lag and more HDMI inputs (nice).
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kdl42w705b-201402233639.htm

- Just avoid the 32" model which lacks the low-lag.

EU/UK: KDL-42W705B, KDL-50W705B
CA: KDL-42W700B

Not available in the US... over there you have to go with the W8 series, which has got more features but also more input lag (22ms vs 14ms)
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kdl50w829b-201403023650.htm

- Not sure but I think I've read the 48" model lacks some MotionFlow features (to confirm).

US: KDL-50W800B, KDL-55W800B

Didn't check Sony AU/NZ lol.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:20 am 


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Xyga wrote:
Not available in the US... over there you have to go with the W8 series, which has got more features but also more input lag (22ms vs 14ms)


Gah, there's always a catch, isn't there! I'd looked at some W8's, but they start at $1,000 and only go up from there, not exactly in my price range. Wonderful site you've linked though, I'll either watch it for any other upcoming models in the future (hoping that Sony doesn't go all-in on 4K some time soon), or sit here hoping the W7 series comes over.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:16 am 


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You could order a W7 from a Canadian online store or drive over there... maybe ? ^^

That other website lists more TVs if that helps: http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

Some 2014 LG's seem to be very close to the Sony's (at least in terms of input lag) and they're usually cheaper.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:31 am 



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These are the TVs that are sold in the place where I can go to buy a TV:
KDL50W 829BBAE2
KDL50W 815BSAE2
KDL42W 815BSAE2
KDL48W 605BBAEP

Should I go for the first one? I finally decided to go for a Sony LCD rather than a plasma. I think I'm going to be happy if it's, at least, as good as the iMac screen.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:43 am 


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Looks like the first one is the same reviewed here: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kdl50w829b-201403023650.htm
Not sure I can identify the other part numbers.

@bobrocks95: don't know if it's a good store but at least they have the W7 in the US: http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=94164&vpn=KDL42W700B&manufacture=Sony%20Consumer%20Electronics
Still quite expensive though.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 6:41 am 


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Xyga wrote:
You could order a W7 from a Canadian online store or drive over there... maybe ? ^^

That other website lists more TVs if that helps: http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

Some 2014 LG's seem to be very close to the Sony's (at least in terms of input lag) and they're usually cheaper.


Live way too far south for any Canadian road trips unfortunately. I'll check some Canadian sites and see what's possible, though I don't think it's worth it at that point. I don't have any reason to believe Sony's line this year will be the lowest lag 1080p display we ever see.

Xyga wrote:
@bobrocks95: don't know if it's a good store but at least they have the W7 in the US: http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=94164&vpn=KDL42W700B&manufacture=Sony%20Consumer%20Electronics
Still quite expensive though.


Interesting that some places have imported some. I'll probably just wait for next year's models at this point, I'm not antsy for a new TV right now or anything. Thanks for all the links though, some are places to keep an eye on in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 7:27 am 


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bobrocks95 wrote:
I don't have any reason to believe Sony's line this year will be the lowest lag 1080p display we ever see.

We never know what Sony will do, the low latency on their 2013 & 2014 W series probably was not intended, but I believe some manufacturers have (finally) noticed low latency is a thing.
Some time ago Sony were advertising their W series as 'best for gaming', and Toshiba should include a low-latency (10ms) '4K game Turbo' mode in some of their high-end models.

Big pc monitors are slowly getting interesting as well, at the moment most high resolution 27"/30"/32" have 20+ms of lag, but that won't last forever as gamers complain about it all over the internets. ^^
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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 10:40 am 



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Please, I know that this is not a TV forum, but I'm trying to get some info about the KDL50W 828B vs KDL50W829B but my research is futile. Are they the same TV? I want to think that NO, it has no sense make two identicall TVs and name them diferently, unless they are branded for different resellers. Any idea? thx


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2014 11:05 am 


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Looks like it's the same only with a Benelux part number since most stores selling it are .be .lu .nl

It's common to have slightly different p/n for different countries/zones.
Most of time the only technical differences concern local digital tv systems, power plugs, language support, etc.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:50 am 


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It's not really the same price range, but are there any 4K screens out there which are close enough in terms of lag/image & processing qualities underlined by Fudoh ?
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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:03 am 


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Toshiba's 2014 4K lineup is supposed to be pretty fast. If you have access to japanese models, the 65L9400 seems great.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:42 pm 



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Is the Sony KDL-32W700B/KDL-32W705 equivalent to last year KDL-32W650A US model?. It's available in the US at http://www.bhphotovideo.com. Does anybody have a review or input lag information of this model or the equivalent European KDL-32W705 version?.
Thanks,
\o/.k.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:40 pm 


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kebrank wrote:
Is the Sony KDL-32W700B/KDL-32W705 equivalent to last year KDL-32W650A US model?. It's available in the US at http://www.bhphotovideo.com. Does anybody have a review or input lag information of this model or the equivalent European KDL-32W705 version?.
Thanks,
\o/.k.


Info on the W705: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kdl42w705b-201402233639.htm **NOTE** Apparently the 32" version does not have the low lag, avoid that one.
W705 replaces European W653, which may in fact be the same as the US' W650, but I'm not sure (info from here: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl42w653-201308113237.htm)

Also I don't see a W700 on that site, where did you see it? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Brand_Sony&ci=2500&N=3965713807+4292350609+4289950568+4291215468


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:11 pm 


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Yeah 32W700B lacks the low-lag...

And 42W700B is only available from a limited number of stores in the US, like NCIXUS.
Very expensive though.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:33 pm 



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This is the link for the KDL-32W700B:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1 ... ystem.html

Sadly, they don't have the 42" model.

Thanks,
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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:01 pm 


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http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=94164
$999.99 :shock:
$210 more than the average European price.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:29 pm 


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Just out of curiosity, is it known what color depth these current TV panels use? Still 6-bit+FRC I assume?


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:23 pm 


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Xyga wrote:
http://www.ncixus.com/products/?sku=94164
$999.99 :shock:
$210 more than the average European price.


Thankfully they don't have the 50" or I would have caved by now.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:07 am 


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Xan wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is it known what color depth these current TV panels use? Still 6-bit+FRC I assume?

I think MVA panels mostly are 8bit or 8bit+FRC.
But they don't necessarily produce better/more natural colors than 6bit+FRC IPS panels.
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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:12 am 


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kebrank wrote:
This is the link for the KDL-32W700B:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1 ... ystem.html

Sadly, they don't have the 42" model.

Thanks,
\o/.k.


BTW, I'd recommend holding out until next year's models are announced by Sony. Importing a TV just isn't worth the extra cost, and the US offerings aren't quite as good- assuming you're buying it for low input lag, might as well wait and see if you can do better in about 6-8 months.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:00 am 



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bobrocks95 wrote:
kebrank wrote:
This is the link for the KDL-32W700B:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1 ... ystem.html

Sadly, they don't have the 42" model.

Thanks,
\o/.k.


BTW, I'd recommend holding out until next year's models are announced by Sony. Importing a TV just isn't worth the extra cost, and the US offerings aren't quite as good- assuming you're buying it for low input lag, might as well wait and see if you can do better in about 6-8 months.


I actually picked up this year's W800B's (US) recently and their input lag is among the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:13 am 


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Looks like the W900A continues in Japan as the W920A:

http://www.sony.jp/bravia/products/KDL- ... /spec.html

:evil:

The US W800B looks great for the price. I really wish they had WCG backlighting though (Triluminos). Not a deal breaker, just would be nice to have.


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:16 am 


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eightbitminiboss wrote:
I actually picked up this year's W800B's (US) recently and their input lag is among the best.


22ms vs the 700's 14ms to quote Xyga from earlier in the thread. Still great, and the 800 packs more features in, especially if you plan on using the TV for more than games, but the only reason I'm looking to buy a Sony is for the low lag, so I might as well wait a bit and see if they'll make it any lower. Of course, it could backfire on me and next year's models have more, you never know.

RGB32E wrote:
Looks like the W900A continues in Japan as the W920A:

http://www.sony.jp/bravia/products/KDL- ... /spec.html

:evil:

The US W800B looks great for the price. I really wish they had WCG backlighting though (Triluminos). Not a deal breaker, just would be nice to have.


I didn't know about the 900, how's its lag?


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 Post subject: Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV
PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:52 am 


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The W7 measured slightly below 14ms in at least in two reviews I's read, but not everyone uses the Leo Bodnar Lag tester the same way.

I think Fudoh's testing is done from the top bar (check page 1), some websites use the middle or bottom bar and try only the game mode on default settings.
Maybe the W8 would show a lower figure if it was tested the way Fudoh did ?
Don't know...
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