Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
User avatar
Xyga
Posts: 7181
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: block

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Xyga »

Yeah it's 705B (black) and 706B (silver)

As long as you read the model number up to KDL-W70** it's the same. I believe the last two characters are used for region and color.
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Fudoh wrote:700 series was new this year, so yes, there's only one version. The last digit can relate to the built in tuner versions. It's different from country to country and sometimes even more than one version is available per country.
Thank you so much Tobias. :mrgreen: I've ordered an XRGB-3 and a Audio Authority 9A60A VGA->Component transcoder so i can use the excellent component input with it. If the PS2 interlaces picture really bugs me i'll order the iScan VP50 for proper interlacing as well. 8)

Without your guidance on almost everything i think i would have been lost. :oops:
Spoiler
Image
User avatar
Xyga
Posts: 7181
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: block

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Xyga »

spaceape wrote:i'll order the iScan VP50 for proper interlacing as well.
It's already quite good without the help of an external processor you know.
IMHO the DVDOs don't make a big difference on the Sonys.
Last edited by Xyga on Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Xyga wrote:Yeah it's 705B (black) and 706B (silver)

As long as you read the model number up to KDL-W70** it's the same. I believe the last two characters are used for region and color.
Let's hope the internet is right about the quality of these sets. :o :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yluLy_dLK1A

:shock: :lol:

Thanks mate. :mrgreen:
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Xyga wrote:
spaceape wrote:i'll order the iScan VP50 for proper interlacing as well.
It's already quite good without the help of an external processor you know.
IMHO the DVDOs don't make a big difference on the Sonys.
Yeeeeah. :roll: Im debating with myself if it's really worth it for only one console. Most if not all of the VP50's on ebay have no psu or remote. So you have to get that separately and shipping and import fees are always a b**** from the US. :x

Anyway why is deinterlacing a picture thats originally interlaced important? On the old crt's they didn't do that right? Maybe the sharper modern displays makes the blinking more visible? One would otherwise think that leaving the 480i unmodified and original would be the best solution.
User avatar
Xyga
Posts: 7181
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: block

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Xyga »

Basically the Sony W sets already handle 480i games almost as well as the DVDOs do.
That includes overscan, two deinterlacing modes (fast/neat), details and edge enhancement.
The differences in quality are negligible (at least in my eyes they are).
spaceape wrote:Anyway why is deinterlacing a picture thats originally interlaced important? On the old crt's they didn't do that right? Maybe the sharper modern displays makes the blinking more visible? One would otherwise think that leaving the 480i unmodified and original would be the best solution.
CRTs and LCDs don't draw the picture the same way, interlaced is impossible on LCDs.
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Xyga wrote:Basically the Sony W sets already handle 480i games almost as well as the DVDOs do.
That includes overscan, two deinterlacing modes (fast/neat), details and edge enhancement.
The differences in quality are negligible (at least in my eyes they are).
spaceape wrote:Anyway why is deinterlacing a picture thats originally interlaced important? On the old crt's they didn't do that right? Maybe the sharper modern displays makes the blinking more visible? One would otherwise think that leaving the 480i unmodified and original would be the best solution.
CRTs and LCDs don't draw the picture the same way, interlaced is impossible on LCDs.
Cool about the Sony deinterlacing. :)

Roger that on the LCD interlacing woes.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

Basically the Sony W sets already handle 480i games almost as well as the DVDOs do.
that's right, but overall 480i pictures are displayed much more blurry than 480p ones (although that's not really neccessary). Compared to a Framemeister's output with 480i input, the Sony appears much softer.
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Do you know how much lag the VP50 introduce? Maybe the Sony is faster or another external box?
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

Maybe the Sony is faster or another external box?
for proper deinterlacing on the Sonys you're looking at 60+ ms, so a DVDO is faster of course. I would still get a Mini instead of a DVDO, if you're looking for good deinterlacing of 480i material FOR GAMES.
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Fudoh wrote:
Maybe the Sony is faster or another external box?
for proper deinterlacing on the Sonys you're looking at 60+ ms, so a DVDO is faster of course. I would still get a Mini instead of a DVDO, if you're looking for good deinterlacing of 480i material FOR GAMES.
Ok. Just wanted as little lag as possible which is why i got the XRGB-3.

I'll see how bad the deinterlacing looks on the Sony before deciding on adding another external box to the AV chain. :)
User avatar
Xyga
Posts: 7181
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: block

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Xyga »

Fudoh is right in that if you want something that will make a HUGE visual difference, the FM is indeed the best choice.
Lag: 24ms

If you don't mind a shit picture and only wish for low input lag on 480i then the Sony already got a fast mode for this (Display Speed Preference), and the DVDOs don't do that much better.
Lag: about 8ms (?)

Spend your money on a FM if you want exceptionally good looking 480i.
Don't spend your money on a DVDO if you only want low-lag 480i.
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Thanks. :D Im guessing from reading the reviews on videogameperfection.com that most external deinterlacers by DVDO recommend by Fudoh are around 6ms.

XRGB-3 can properly also do some work with the interlaced picture and i could maybe just enable that for the PS2. Not as pretty as the Mini or as fast as the dvdo's but still faster than the slow W705 deinterlacer.

The fast deinterlace mode on the w705 also sounds like an idea. :)
User avatar
Xyga
Posts: 7181
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: block

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Xyga »

spaceape wrote:Im guessing from reading the reviews on videogameperfection.com that most external deinterlacers by DVDO recommend by Fudoh are around 6ms.
If it's only about 480i in the fastest mode available, yes I believe so.
ABT102, VP50, VP50pro should be 6ms, and the EDGE 8ms.
But we'll let them confirm.

Still, nothing considerably better than the Sony's 'Display Speed Preference' mode, IMHO.
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

I wonder how much lag the B1 "deinterlacer" on the XRGB-3 has (2ms no matter if you turn it on or off?). If it even can be turned off at all? And if the XRGB-Mini has the same lag (24ms) no matter how you configure it's deinterlacer?

Still waiting for my stuff to arrive. Much more compact than my 20" BVM-A behemoth which im selling. No room for that monster. :shock:
Last edited by spaceape on Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Xyga
Posts: 7181
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: block

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Xyga »

480i in B1 is - I think - 2ms, same as with 240p, because in this mode the XRGB-3 doesn't deinterlace, it takes only half the resolution of the full 480i signal.
There's no 'on' or 'off', you set the XRGB-3 to either B0 or B1.
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Xyga wrote:480i in B1 is - I think - 2ms, same as with 240p, because in this mode the XRGB-3 doesn't deinterlace, it takes only half the resolution of the full 480i signal.
There's no 'on' or 'off', you set the XRGB-3 to either B0 or B1.
Yes correct 2ms is the number.

My brain isn't the fastest in the world. So properly shouldn't worry too much about it. :P Not even sure it will pick it up even if it were much more but im not taking any chances. :lol:
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

But let's clarify one thing: the results of all single field deinterlacers (= all the fast ones) look like shit. There is no way to get PROPER deinterlacing with little lag.

You have to ask yourself what kind of 480i material you're playing. You certainly won't play a PS2 RPG using a single field deinterlacer (DVDO or Sony's internal deinterlacer), but then again lag doesn't matter on those games.

The XRGB-3 is only processor to look ok in single field mode by just not using any deinterlacing at all, but essentially emulating an interlaced CRT.
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Fudoh wrote:But let's clarify one thing: the results of all single field deinterlacers (= all the fast ones) look like shit. There is no way to get PROPER deinterlacing with little lag.

You have to ask yourself what kind of 480i material you're playing. You certainly won't play a PS2 RPG using a single field deinterlacer (DVDO or Sony's internal deinterlacer), but then again lag doesn't matter on those games.

The XRGB-3 is only processor to look ok in single field mode by just not using any deinterlacing at all, but essentially emulating an interlaced CRT.
So in your opinion the best looking deinterlacer is the framemeister, Slowest deinterlacing setting on the tv or the emulated one by the XRGB-3? Don't the DVDO have a slow and better looking deinterlace setting? If so how much lag does it produce and is it prettier than the tv's slowest mode?

But for fighers and shooters the single field deinterlacer is alright as you don't notice it as much?
User avatar
Xyga
Posts: 7181
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: block

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Xyga »

Fudoh wrote:The XRGB-3 is only processor to look ok in single field mode by just not using any deinterlacing at all, but essentially emulating an interlaced CRT.

Which reminds me I haven't tried 480i on XRGB-2/3 directly to the W6 yet !

@spaceape: anyway don't overthink this, W7 + AA + XRGB3 is already a very, VERY, powerful combination.
If lag is your absolute priority then you won't get a setup any better than this one.
Maybe you could find a better transcoder than the AA, add an SLG3000 in the chain for 240p-like scanlines on 480i, but there's very little room left for improvement.

Now if you look for a clearly superior/improved image quality or other specific features like framelocking, overscan (for displays that don't have any or just bad), well this is where other processors like the FM and DVDOs enter the game. At a price (in currency or lag. or both).
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
Sixfortyfive
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:31 am

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Sixfortyfive »

I just moved into a new place and am going to be looking into buying a new HDTV with latency as a priority and running in tandem with an XRGB-3 in B1 mode.

What a timely moment to check up on this thread. :D I appreciate all the pointers.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

So in your opinion the best looking deinterlacer is the framemeister
for 480i games, yes.
Don't the DVDO have a slow and better looking deinterlace setting?
for movies, yes.
If so how much lag does it produce and is it prettier than the tv's slowest mode?
DVDs look considerably sharper through a DVDO than directly into the Sony in 480i.
But for fighers and shooters the single field deinterlacer is alright as you don't notice it as much?
are there really so many fighters and shoot'em up ups in 480i you need to play ? Most should be 240p or 480p and for the remaining ones the XRGB-3 is the best option. You should only consider another deinterlacer for games, if your priority are other kinds of 480i games. For movies a good processor is always a good idea.
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Xyga wrote:
Fudoh wrote:The XRGB-3 is only processor to look ok in single field mode by just not using any deinterlacing at all, but essentially emulating an interlaced CRT.

Which reminds me I haven't tried 480i on XRGB-2/3 directly to the W6 yet !

@spaceape: anyway don't overthink this, W7 + AA + XRGB3 is already a very, VERY, powerful combination.
If lag is your absolute priority then you won't get a setup any better than this one.
Maybe you could find a better transcoder than the AA, add an SLG3000 in the chain for 240p-like scanlines on 480i, but there's very little room left for improvement.

Now if you look for a clearly superior/improved image quality or other specific features like framelocking, overscan (for displays that don't have any or just bad), well this is where other processors like the FM and DVDOs enter the game. At a price (in currency or lag. or both).
Audio Authority 9A60A was the only transcoder not so big and bulky i could find on ebay. I really know nothing about transcoders. I only searched the brands mentioned by Fudoh at page one of this thread. :) Do you know of any with better quality since you say i maybe could have found better? (stolen from Akumajo here on shmups:
Spoiler
Xselect-D4 : Max Resolution (1080i) / Bandwitdh (??? Mhz)
XRGB-3 (B1) : Max Resolution (1080i) / Bandwitdh (??? Mhz)
Ebay HD Component Video to VGA RGBHV Format Converter (black box) : Max Resolution (1080i) / Bandwitdh (110 Mhz)
LKV7600 Component Video to VGA Converter : Max Resolution (1080p) / Bandwitdh (??? Mhz)
HDBOX PRO : Max Resolution (1080p) / Bandwitdh (??? Mhz)
Burosch CON-1 : Max Resolution (???) / Bandwitdh (??? Mhz)
Crescendo RTC2000 : Max Resolution (1080i) / Bandwitdh (130 Mhz)
Crescendo RTC2200 : Max Resolution (1080p) / Bandwitdh (??? Mhz)
Audio Authority 9A60 : Max Resolution (1080i) / Bandwitdh (250 Mhz)
Audio Authority 9A60A : Max Resolution (1080p) / Bandwitdh (250 Mhz)
DataPro VD-Z3 : Max Resolution (1080i) / Bandwitdh (145 Mhz)
DataPro CSV-955A (Mayflash YPbPr to RGBHV VGA seems to be a clone/rebrand, also this is an upgrade of VD-Z3) : Max Resolution (1080p) / Bandwitdh (? Mhz)
Neoya X2VGA2 : Max Resolution (1080p) / Bandwitdh (? Mhz)
)

Yeah i always overthink. A bit of perfectionism i guess. :oops: :roll:
Fudoh wrote:for movies, yes.
I don't care about movies it's purely a tv which i plan to use for retro consoles. So The Dvdo's have no pretty/slow deinterlacing setting suitable for gaming?
are there really so many fighters and shoot'em up ups in 480i you need to play ? Most should be 240p or 480p and for the remaining ones the XRGB-3 is the best option. You should only consider another deinterlacer for games, if your priority are other kinds of 480i games. For movies a good processor is always a good idea.
Im not sure just covering all the bases. :) I already have a Dvdo Duo in my other room dedicated to movies.
User avatar
Xyga
Posts: 7181
Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:22 pm
Location: block

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Xyga »

spaceape wrote:Audio Authority 9A60A was the only transcoder not so big and bulky i could find on ebay. I really know nothing about transcoders. I only searched the brands mentioned by Fudoh at page one of this thread. :) Do you know of any with better quality since you say i maybe could have found better?
I don't know much about transcoders as well. Followed the recommendations and I am very satisfied with the AA.
If you google about the AA you will read some people found there are better models around, but I doubt they have tried those with a video game setup and certainly not with a scanlines generator like the SLG3000.
So just wait for Fudoh's upcoming article on transcoders and you'll see if there are any other models worth considering or not.

I think at some point we're all looking for perfection but there's a moment when it becomes like an audiophile's obsession: already owning an excellent setup that covers for 95% of the desired quality, but still willing to spend tons of money to fight for the remaining 5%. :mrgreen:
Strikers1945guy wrote:"Do we....eat chicken balls?!"
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

So The Dvdo's have no pretty/slow deinterlacing setting suitable for gaming?
I already have a Dvdo Duo in my other room dedicated to movies
what are you asking then ? Sure they do, just like your Duo.
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Should i change my Audio Authority 9A60A ebay order to the XSelect-D4 instead? Both you Fudoh and the guy in this review seem to praise it. :)

http://nfggames.com/games/xselectd4/
Conclusion: already a great SD/ED/HD transcoder, but together with the XRGB-3, this is Micomsoft's ultimate dream team !
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

XSelect-D4
can you find one this easily ?
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Fudoh wrote:
XSelect-D4
can you find one this easily ?
Yes found it on an English site.

It's one of the best vga to component boxes isn't it?
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by Fudoh »

It's not better or worth than others, it's just more flexible, since you get a cross transcoder (YUV to VGA and VGA to YUV), you also get JP21 to SD YUV conversion, sync stripping (RGBs to RGBHV) and of course you get a component switch built-in as well. On a XRGB/Sony setup I would have a hard time deciding wether to put it in front of the XRGB or behind it. It makes a great filter for signals of all kinds before going into the XRGB-3.
User avatar
spaceape
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:47 am
Location: Denmark

Re: Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

Post by spaceape »

Fudoh wrote:It's not better or worth than others, it's just more flexible, since you get a cross transcoder (YUV to VGA and VGA to YUV), you also get JP21 to SD YUV conversion, sync stripping (RGBs to RGBHV) and of course you get a component switch built-in as well. On a XRGB/Sony setup I would have a hard time deciding wether to put it in front of the XRGB or behind it. It makes a great filter for signals of all kinds before going into the XRGB-3.
Also it's (at least on the UK site) 230 EUR versus 100 EUR of the 9A60A. All my consoles are modded for raw sync and i already own an automatic component switcher. I also don't need most of the inputs/outputs.

What kind of filter does it have?
Post Reply