Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

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Endymion
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Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by Endymion »

I have performed the coin slot mod on my Dreamcast in order to more easily replace my battery, but now that I have a brand new battery in my Dreamcast, I've noticed it does not seem to hold a charge for very long. If I haven't played it in more than a week or so, I still have to set the time when starting up again for the first time in a while.

Does anyone know just how long is too long for a Dreamcast battery to last, or how long is normal for it to hold a charge? I'm wondering if the battery I got ahold of is just a dud or what. At any rate it would be nice to know, before I try a AAA rechargeable mod.
Last edited by Endymion on Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SGGG2
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by SGGG2 »

IIRC, after replacing the battery you need to leave the Dreamcast on for an extended amount of time, 10 hours or something, in order for it to charge properly with normal use.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by Endymion »

I left it on overnight the day I did the mod, so it got a good 25 hours of time to charge up from the start. Still, my Dreamcast battery charge can't survive anything like what I would call a long time without play.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by evil_ash_xero »

I hate the fact that they put those batteries in the system, and in the VMUs. I'll skip a while from playing the system, switch it on "BEEP!". Ugh.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by emphatic »

Yeah, it really sucks ass.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by Endymion »

So nobody knows if +/- one week is normal lifetime charge for a new Dreamcast battery?
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gct
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by gct »

SGGG2 wrote:IIRC, after replacing the battery you need to leave the Dreamcast on for an extended amount of time, 10 hours or something, in order for it to charge properly with normal use.
This doesn't sound right to me. Isn't it a primary battery (i.e. does not get charged), and having the system on only prevents the battery from being further discharged?

One week is definitely short. I imagine a battery should last months or years. Quality of battery may have an effect. Normally I just buy coin cells in bulk from a dollar store, but you can get Energizers or whatever if you are concerned. If you have space for the mod, I would probably go for a 3V CR123 primary or rechargeable lithium cell rather than NiMH AAA. The voltage characteristics will be more similar to what was originally installed.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by HydrogLox »

Endymion wrote:I have performed the coin slot mod on my Dreamcast in order to more easily replace my battery, but now that I have a brand new battery in my Dreamcast, I've noticed it does not seem to hold a charge for very long. If I haven't played it in more than a week or so, I still have to set the time when starting up again for the first time in a while.
Are you talking about this mod: http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/downl ... cement.pdf
The text talks about a "2032 re-chargeable" and the pictures show a ML2032 rechargeable being installed - not a (much more common) CR2032 battery.

If you try to charge a CR2032 (which an unmodified Dreamcast will do while it is plugged in) just having a dead "battery" is getting lucky.
http://www.eemb.com/pdf/Li-MnO2/CR2032.pdf
Do not recharge, short-circuit, disassemble, deform, heat or place the battery near a direct flame. Any of the above
actions could cause it to ignite explode or become damaged.
Just checking.
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gct
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by gct »

Thanks for the clarification, HydrogLox. I was also unaware that the circuit recharges, but I never bothered to replace my battery since I only power on my DC maybe once or twice a year at this point and just put up with setting the clock each time.

I think the proper voltage will still be a concern if using NiMH chemistry for a replacement.

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dark
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by dark »

Back when I owned my DC circa 2001 and later years, the battery could hold charge for a very long time. Months / years. I don't recall it completely dying and having to reset the clock each time I started it up until a very good while after I owned it.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by Endymion »

HydrogLox wrote:Are you talking about this mod: http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/downl ... cement.pdf
The text talks about a "2032 re-chargeable" and the pictures show a ML2032 rechargeable being installed - not a (much more common) CR2032 battery.

If you try to charge a CR2032 (which an unmodified Dreamcast will do while it is plugged in) just having a dead "battery" is getting lucky.
http://www.eemb.com/pdf/Li-MnO2/CR2032.pdf
Do not recharge, short-circuit, disassemble, deform, heat or place the battery near a direct flame. Any of the above
actions could cause it to ignite explode or become damaged.
Just checking.
That is the exact mod I did, with the same exact coin slot, and yes, the same exact rechargeable battery. As I said already, I left the Dreamcast on for several hours in order to recharge. I will just order another battery and try it out before I go nuclear with a AAA battery mod, I would expect a few of those in there would hold the date for years on end.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by HydrogLox »

Endymion wrote:That is the exact mod I did, with the same exact coin slot, and yes, the same exact rechargeable battery. As I said already, I left the Dreamcast on for several hours in order to recharge. I will just order another battery and try it out before I go nuclear with a AAA battery mod, I would expect a few of those in there would hold the date for years on end.
According to the storage characteristics on the datasheet the voltage will drop to 2.5V after only 100 hours on a 15KOhm load. The exact replacement for the rechargable battery is an ML2020/G1AN (datasheet). If I'm reading the graphs on the datasheets correctly - the "Consumption Current vs. Duration Time" is actually much better on the ML2020. So what you are seeing may actually be typical for a ML2032 - good enough for a short blackout but not good enough for storage in the closet (and not comparable to the originally installed cell).
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by Endymion »

Well isn't that a kicker, I have to wonder why so many guides recommend using a battery that carries a charge for a fraction of the time as the original. Although maybe it is worth mentioning I can't seem to find many ML2020s for sale that are not already enclosed in the prongs. I'll try an ML2020 before I take the nuclear option with AAA.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by HydrogLox »

Endymion wrote:I'll try an ML2020 before I take the nuclear option with AAA.
  • Won't work as the ML2020 is only 2.0 mm thick, while your battery holder is designed for the 3.2 mm ML2032. Check the data sheets.
  • The rechargeable AAA solution isn't that solid either. (1) You would have to find rechargeable AAAs that are designed to hold a charge long term rather than have a high capacity. I use 1000mA Duracells which are great out of the charger - but don't let them sit around for weeks because they won't be ready when you are. Sanyo Eneloops seem to keep their charge longer. (2) Rechargables only work well if they are charged "properly" - being charged in serial whenever the Dreamcast is plugged in/powered on (i.e. not getting completely drained and then completely recharged) is far from optimal and could translate to an early demise of the cells.
If you want to stick with a rechargeable solution simply solder in a new ML2020/G1AN and be prepared to do it again in 3 - 5 years.
For a console that lives in the closet most of the time a non-rechargeable battery that gets inserted upon use is a better solution - but the charging circuit would need to be disconnected/disabled (a step which most of the non-rechargeable mod guides skip). The easiest way to disable the trickle charge is by adding a diode (the correct way around) - apparently a common hack in the Amiga scene (seems a Schotty diode is the way to go).
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by Endymion »

HydrogLox wrote:
Endymion wrote:I'll try an ML2020 before I take the nuclear option with AAA.
  • Won't work as the ML2020 is only 2.0 mm thick, while your battery holder is designed for the 3.2 mm ML2032. Check the data sheets.
Spotted that before you mentioned it actually. But seriously, modding the coin slot for this itself is sheer simplicity.
The easiest way to disable the trickle charge is by adding a diode (the correct way around) - apparently a common hack in the Amiga scene (seems a Schotty diode is the way to go).
This is alsoalso a mod I could get behind.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

Likely a silly question, but how high is the risk of an original battery damaging the console by now? Should I worry if never replaced the soldered batteries in my Dreamcasts, which never got much use actually?

The real question I guess is if these rechargeable batteries tend to leak or something after so many years.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by maxtherabbit »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:Likely a silly question, but how high is the risk of an original battery damaging the console by now? Should I worry if never replaced the soldered batteries in my Dreamcasts, which never got much use actually?

The real question I guess is if these rechargeable batteries tend to leak or something after so many years.
I'm sure it's possible, but I've never seen one leak yet
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by VEGETA »

I suffered from this problem but did the CR2032 mod. Now it is better but not perfect, this is not a solution.

therefore, I designed my own solution as seen here.

this new mod board will have 18650 rechargeable battery and will be soldered\installed on top of the original one. it also has replaced the older components such as 47uF cap and fuse. charging current is set to 200 mA which is more than enough to charge it even in the shortest of gaming sessions as the nominal discharge current when DC is off is about <1 mA, probably 0.2mA. the battery should last a lot.

this board is being made right now and will make update on it once I receive it... plan to sell it for sure as this is THE solution to the +20 yo problem.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by Kez »

Endymion wrote:
HydrogLox wrote:The easiest way to disable the trickle charge is by adding a diode (the correct way around) - apparently a common hack in the Amiga scene (seems a Schotty diode is the way to go).
This is alsoalso a mod I could get behind.
Voultar did this exact mod in a video here
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by BuckoA51 »

VEGETA wrote:I suffered from this problem but did the CR2032 mod. Now it is better but not perfect, this is not a solution.

therefore, I designed my own solution as seen here.

this new mod board will have 18650 rechargeable battery and will be soldered\installed on top of the original one. it also has replaced the older components such as 47uF cap and fuse. charging current is set to 200 mA which is more than enough to charge it even in the shortest of gaming sessions as the nominal discharge current when DC is off is about <1 mA, probably 0.2mA. the battery should last a lot.

this board is being made right now and will make update on it once I receive it... plan to sell it for sure as this is THE solution to the +20 yo problem.
Fantastic, I'll need at least three for myself and friends here in Ireland. If anyone can do something for the Saturn too that would be great, mine never seems to hold charge very long.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by bobrocks95 »

FRAM is great but doesn't solve the other problem of the RTC running the battery down and asking you for the time on every boot.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by jd213 »

Yeah, but it solves the main problem of keeping your saves intact.
And it only takes a few button presses to get past the clock screen, I assume a proper clock setting isn't needed for most games.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by fernan1234 »

I've come to almost not care at all about old save files on these consoles after realizing that once I'm done with a game the save file becomes useless, since if I ever do revisit the game I'll almost certainly be starting from the beginning rather than going to that save file right before the last stage/boss. For the few cases where they may really matter, there's ways to back them up and restore them.

But those beeps and date/time prompts whenever I put one of these consoles back into rotation, now that's annoying. Not much that can be done other than keeping a bunch of spare CR2032s around, and trying to buy good quality rather than the cheapest. I've been using LiCB batteries.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by BuckoA51 »

bobrocks95 wrote:FRAM is great but doesn't solve the other problem of the RTC running the battery down and asking you for the time on every boot.
Exactly this, I was going to get the FRAM mod done anyway, after I forgot to copy my save to the action replay and lost it, but it's hard to get the components at the moment.

I think it comes down to now these systems are classic sometimes I won't play them for a month or two, when Dreamcast was current I was using it at least once a week often much more.

Why didn't they make it so you could leave them plugged but on standby, so they could just use a trickle of mains power not a battery? Cost I suppose?
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by VEGETA »

the board has arrived: https://imgur.com/a/M9kSTgi

will be testing it in 2 weeks.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by Gunstar »

VEGETA wrote:the board has arrived: https://imgur.com/a/M9kSTgi

will be testing it in 2 weeks.
That's cool, interested to see the results!
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VEGETA
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by VEGETA »

Hello,

I got my designed board for battery new mod i talked about earlier, and it works perfectly fine! I will just need to make another version just to change its shape to better fit inside.

Here are some pictures: https://imgur.com/a/3b6qzPR

final board and assembly will be the same as you see but more neat and tightly fit via the screws.

right now i am just monitoring and seeing the result, till now everything as intended.
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by Konsolkongen »

Nice. That is some battery! :D
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VEGETA
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Re: Normal Dreamcast internal battery life

Post by VEGETA »

Konsolkongen wrote:Nice. That is some battery! :D
yes, it is 18650 which is A LOT more bigger than required and than original while being very cheap and available.

I am thinking of selling it for 50$ but I hope I can get it down to 40$. Will 50 or 45 be ok with most people?
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