Condensed awesomeness / Yokotate project mk.V / Datapath x4

[Fudoh]

A little thanksgiving present to all fellow video processor enthusiasts! Last night I finished my review for the Datapath x4, a dedicated video wall processor.



The Datapath x4 provides an easy single-box solution for all kinds of multi-monitor setups.



And it's also the next official entry into my YOKOTATE project. And it does not only offer rotation for tate-only games, but it also provides an interesting screen flipping / mirroring solution which allows you to "black label" your whole game library.



Full review is available here: http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/datapath.html and on my main page of course http://retrogaming.hazard-city.de/

Happy reading & happy thanksgiving!

[alamone]

Nice that it only has 1 frame of lag, but at a price of 3 times a XRGB-mini (your own quote)
and limited aftermarket availability, I'm not sure it's much of a practical solution for anyone.

[Fudoh]

certainy not for everyone, yes, but I know so many people who have the same number of processors I do or who bought a Radiance new for 3 grand or have projectors that cost a multiple of that. I've seen 2nd hand x4 units for roughly $550. Not cheap, but certainly worth it.

[ryu]

are videowalls really that good for home entertainment? as small as they may be on high end monitors, i wouldn't be very happy with the gaps between the screens.

[Lord of Pirates]

are videowalls really that good for home entertainment? as small as they may be on high end monitors, i wouldn't be very happy with the gaps between the screens.

I think it's a matter of preference for games that weren't designed for it.

Thanks for the review, Fudoh, always fun to read 'em.

[Fudoh]

Vertical multi-monitor setups are fun. If you look at the PC FPS guys, 3-monitor setups are nothing new, 5-monitor are still rare though. Below three random setups posted on the hardforum site. I just find it interesting to take the whole multi monitor idea over the video games (or console gaming if like to call it this way).

I've had a 3-monitor setup on a PC for years now, so I'm really used to the bezels in between. Yesterday I got a new gaming TV and it's bezel is less than a cm, which is really tiny for a 42" screen).

[ryu]

i'm aware of these multi monitor setups, but i didn't think people would actually play with these on all monitors. the bezel gaps in those setups you posted seem especially bad.

Yesterday I got a new gaming TV and it's bezel is less than a cm, which is really tiny for a 42" screen).

i thought you used the same tv for games and movies? what happened to the 4k screen you said you'd get?

i wonder if we'll ever see monitors with removable bezels for these things

[Fudoh]

i thought you used the same tv for games and movies? what happened to the 4k screen you said you'd get?

Sony's X9 did turn out to have just average blacks. Not worth upgrading if the black level takes a hit. This year's Sony W6 series was nearly lag free, so I got one of those. Maybe I'll switch to plasma for movies...

i wonder if we'll ever see monitors with removable bezels for these things

there already are, but they're very expensive.

[Xyga]

This year's Sony W6 series was nearly lag free, so I got one of those.

Did you get the 42" ? (Because it appears the 32" has actually got around 30ms of input lag)
If so how do you like it ?
I am still hesitating to buy the 42" - the only one to have around 15ms - mainly because of the 'W6 owners thread' on avforums:
Lots of criticism there regarding banding, backlight bleeding, uniformity issues, dirty screen effects, poor motion handling and reactivity...
I wonder if it is really worth the 500+€, also considering it is a bit too big for tate-ing.

[BuckoA51]

Seriously cool stuff I often wondered if you could use something like that (or perhaps 4 x Framemeisters) to take something like Goldeneye and blow up each players window to full screen size over four monitors. If I ever win the lottery I am totally going to do that, just for the heck of it

[Fudoh]

Did you get the 42" ? (Because it appears the 32" has actually got around 30ms of input lag) If so how do you like it ?

yes. 42" W656. Well, blacks are a bit tough when coming from a local dimming set, but otherwise it's pretty great so far. I'm especially surprised about the phenomenally good handling of analogue 480p sources. I only set it up today, so give me a few more days to jump through all the loops. So far no banding, no backlight bleeding, very nice uniformity, no DSE and no clouding. Even the backlight strobing mode is nice. Very plasma-like image (but yes, also false contours on moving objects depending on the background color).

I wonder if it is really worth the 500+€, also considering it is a bit too big for tate-ing.

I simply don't trust Sony to keep the lag as low as it is now for the coming TV generations, so I decided to get one of this year's models. It's absolutely worth the 500 EUR. It's also very light (probably about the same weight as one my 21" PC LCDs). The only problem is the non-standard wall mount which requires a bit of modding if you want to use a rotatable wall mount.

[Xyga]

Thanks !

[Imhotep]

thanks for the review!

can these be helpful to set up multi-screen pcbs at home?

[fagin]

Unfortunately I don't have the space for a proper multi monitor setup, too many ****ing CRT's in the office! It's one of the reasons why I invested in a 3.5k resolutions screen. Next up will be a 4k jobbie.

Nice review Fudoh.

[parodius]

Necro bumpimg this thread, because I have difficulties wrapping my head around the settings in the configuration software to achieve a proper YokoTate setup...
I'm using the software used by Fudoh in his review, not the Wall Designer.

My intended use case is pretty simple with my Extreme4VS : input from either 480p/720p/1080p60 (240p60 upscaled by x2/3/5 OSSC modes with scanlines); output to 1080p rotated with proper aspect ratio.
Fudoh, or someone else who has a Datapath x4/EMS Extreme4VS, would you be able to upload a settings file (.vqs) that works for you to get a proper yokotate output ?

Cheers

[Fudoh]

Your problem is the missing padding on the left and right, correct? So your images are like stretched horizontally.

The main problem I ran into using the software is that the x4 does not offer any padding options itself, so the narrowest AR you can achieve is a 4:3 ratio (if your monitor supports 4:3) if your source signal used the whole picture (from top to bottom).
Using the Framemeister I could chose a windowboxed output, but on the OSSC you don't have this option.

What you need (unless Datapath updated the software and added padding) is a scaler between the OSSC and the x4 allowing you to vertically shrink down the image (in order to GAIN horizontal padding on the x4's output).

Do you understand what I mean ?

[BuckoA51]

Just picked up a Datapath myself, disappointing that it can't do padding if I'd known I maybe wouldn't have splashed out.

I've looked on Datapath's website and I can only find that wall designer software, not the software Fudoh was using in his review, can anyone link me to it?

[orange808]

Just picked up a Datapath myself, disappointing that it can't do padding if I'd known I maybe wouldn't have splashed out.

I've looked on Datapath's website and I can only find that wall designer software, not the software Fudoh was using in his review, can anyone link me to it?

Hi Bucko,

Did you go ahead and download the wall design software? I stopped by their site and noticed they just released a new version, so I went ahead and upgraded.

Everything you need to manage the processor is available from the Wall Designer and companion .Net application.

What are you having trouble with?

@Fudoh: Does the older .NET wall design application have any features the new software does not?

[Fudoh]

@Fudoh: Does the older .NET wall design application have any features the new software does not?

I have no comparison. Never used their newer software. Here's the version of their command tool which I used:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/3p35ir

[Syntax]

I've tried multi monitor setups and I could not stand the joins, and my screens had a really thin bezel.

Put them in a cab with a magic mirror and I'm all over it.
Darius Burst nailed it IMO.

[BuckoA51]

Currently I'm just trying to get a nice tate setup, going OSSC->VP50 Pro->Datapath. Can anyone recommend the best aspect ratio settings to change on the VP50 Pro for this?

[Fudoh]

There are basically two options which you can use. One is the screen format, which can be different from the signal AR, so you can use a wider screen format to add letterboxing. Do that to get roughly in the right dimensions area. Then you use the underscan setting (to be found within the output options) to fine tune the zoom level in 1% steps.

The FM was easy here since it had a simple 1x/2x mapping mode which shows the source image windowboxed.

[BuckoA51]

There are format options for "Display" and "Screen" in that menu, what's the difference?

[Fudoh]

One's the visible screen, one's the signal itself. It's confusing - always has been, always will be. Just try a few different combinations to get the idea.

There are format options for "Display" and "Screen" in that menu

imagine a 16:9 beamer firing onto a 21:9 screen. 16:9 would be your display, 21:9 your screen. This will limited your signal to the cinemascope area of the output signal. And within that your picture can still be 4:3, 16:9 or 21:9.

If you're using proper test patterns to try this, go for 480 visible lines on the 1080p output. This way you get a 480/1080p = 44% horizontal fill rate after you've run through the x4. That's a tiny bit wider than real 4:3, but gives you possible better scaling in the first processing step.

And remember that your actual AR from the DVDO doesn't have to be correct, since the x4 fills the screen anyway. You can go for a 1920x480p image within a 1080p frame.

[BuckoA51]

So 16:9 screen and 4:3 aspect?

[BuckoA51]

I'm lost lol, explain it to me like I was 8 or something

By that I mean how to set up the Datapath and VP50, not the screen vs display I get that.

[Fudoh]

So 16:9 screen and 4:3 aspect?

no.

Somehow you have to get to those 56% black bars. I don't think that the underscan option on its own can achieve this, so you need to trick the processor into adding more black bars on top and bottom. You can go for custom ARs, but using the 21:9 screen option as a base is probably the best way.

How you setup the datapath doesn't really matter. Since it doesn't pad in any way, you can choose whatever area you like to get rescaled to the full screen output.

Check this image:



You have to restrain your active image to the visible area in the middle. If you go for a full 1920x480 output (within a 1080p frame), you will tell the x4 to capture the WHOLE image. If you got a narrower image, e.g. 1080x480p, you tell the x4 to capture the 1080p x 1080p area in the middle.

The black bars you see on top and bottom get your black bars on the sides after you're run through the x4.

If you're using a custom screen AR you have to check how low you can go. For 1920x480 you would need a 4:1 ratio, which you likely can't set, so go as low (as in wide) as you can and use the UNDERSCAN option to additionally add padding.

[BuckoA51]

Right got it I think. 21:9 aspect screen gives me a little postcard in the middle of the screen though, rather than that strip of picture with letterboxing.

[Fudoh]

21:9 aspect screen gives me a little postcard in the middle of the screen though, rather than that strip of picture with letterboxing.

set the input AR to something wider. To prevent the x4 from scaling on the vertical (horizontal input) you need 1080 pixel in width. That's not that wide.

[BuckoA51]

No settings seem to be ideal here, using the VP50s panorama setting results in very bad scaling around the picture edges. I'll keep playing.

Tinkered for a good few hours and got a reasonable image but could never get scanlines to look uniform, I don't think the perfect 1920x480 image is possible with the 50 Pro.

For posterity here are the settings I used in the end:-

OSSC - Line 2x
VP50 Pro Input aspect Ratio -> Frame AR - 16:9
VP50 Pro Input aspect Ratio -> Active AR - 1:78:1
Panorama OFF no zoom

Output setup->Aspect Ratio->Display ->4:3
Output setup->Aspect Ratio->Screen->User->2.43:1
Output setup->Aspect Ratio->Underscan->100

On the Datapath - sample entire image with rotation set to 270.