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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 4:27 am 


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Joined: 26 Feb 2018
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Location: Frederick, MD
FBX wrote:
Danexmurder wrote:
I was wondering if anyone that has updated their NESRGB Palettes can chime in. I'm trying to update the palettes on my board on a windows 10 machine and it's failing out every time I try to program it with the Quartus 2 software. I'm at a loss here. The Green "ACT" light will light up when I try to send the signal but I get a (Failed) in the progress bar every time. Thanks!


Might want to check my web site and make sure you've got everything in the right vias with a good connection, and yes, the NES needs to be powered on. I got to where it was such a messy pain in the ass that I installed a 10-line ribbon port that the Altrea USB Blasters use on my NES:

http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

-FBX


Finally got it working and updated! Turns out I had the J-tag adapter board inverted. Flipped it around and resoldered and the update worked like a charm on the first try. Went with PC10/Wavebeam/FBXSmooth. My single pole 4-throw rotary switch works great and I still have composite out if it’s in the 4th position.

I DO have a rollinging band of interference that scrolls vertically down the screen. It’s barely noticeable in games like Mega Man 2 but you can’t miss it in Mario games. Any suggestions on what could be the culprit?

I’m also curious about the de-jitter board. Think I’d notice an improvement on a CRT?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:03 am 



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Danexmurder wrote:
I’m also curious about the de-jitter board. Think I’d notice an improvement on a CRT?

I'm not sure what kind of improvement you're looking for. The dejitter mod, as I understand it, is mainly to improve compatibility with flat-panel displays that can't tolerate an imperfect sync cadence. CRTs will tolerate the imperfections in these consoles; if the jittery sync made a difference with CRTs, I'm sure these consoles would never have been released the way they were.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:32 am 


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nmalinoski wrote:
Danexmurder wrote:
I’m also curious about the de-jitter board. Think I’d notice an improvement on a CRT?

I'm not sure what kind of improvement you're looking for. The dejitter mod, as I understand it, is mainly to improve compatibility with flat-panel displays that can't tolerate an imperfect sync cadence. CRTs will tolerate the imperfections in these consoles; if the jittery sync made a difference with CRTs, I'm sure these consoles would never have been released the way they were.


In general when games are horizontally scrolling I’m noticing a fair amount of jitter in the movement. This is on my Sony PVMs/BVM. I was curious if the dejitter board would smooth it out in a way that would be noticeable.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:22 am 


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Danexmurder, if it's like band of static over the screen then that's what I had. Got so frustrated trying to solve it thinking I must have a short on the NESRGB somewhere, so I went and asked Voultar on twitter and he told me it was a power issue. Bought a 2A PSU and I haven't seen the interference since. My guess is the NESRGB board draws extra power, which is too much for 1A. Try and find a 9V 2A PSU on amazon, and check the reviews.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:04 am 


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If you're going to get a power supply, the best ones to get are Triads. They are rated at level VI energy efficiency and never get hot, even when you leave them plugged in all the time. From what I understand, you can use DC adapters on the NES even though the OEM is AC. I'd recommend this one if such is the case:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/triad-magnetics/WSU090-2500-13/237-2222-ND/6600156

Edit: Just tried it with one of my own 9V 2.5A Triads and it works great. Polarity doesn't matter either, so you can use center-negative or center-positive.

Also, there has been an issue with counterfeit parts causing bad PQ in some NESRGB boards. I recall some months back doing a replacement for a customer, and it fixed all their problems. You might want to look into that as well. I believe Tim wrote about it on his web site.

-FBX
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:56 pm 


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Yes, with the North American and PAL NES as well as the PAL snes, they take 9V AC. However, passing centre positive or negative is fine as it simply runs right through the voltage regulator. Just remember that Famicom and AV Famicom need centre negative, as I have a PAL NES and AV Famicom I need to be careful with PSU's. Thanks for the reccomendation FBX, I'm interested in getting a retroDCpowered but the pre order never seems open


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:07 pm 


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FBX wrote:
If you're going to get a power supply, the best ones to get are Triads. They are rated at level VI energy efficiency and never get hot, even when you leave them plugged in all the time. From what I understand, you can use DC adapters on the NES even though the OEM is AC. I'd recommend this one if such is the case:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/triad-magnetics/WSU090-2500-13/237-2222-ND/6600156

Edit: Just tried it with one of my own 9V 2.5A Triads and it works great. Polarity doesn't matter either, so you can use center-negative or center-positive.

Also, there has been an issue with counterfeit parts causing bad PQ in some NESRGB boards. I recall some months back doing a replacement for a customer, and it fixed all their problems. You might want to look into that as well. I believe Tim wrote about it on his web site.

-FBX


Thanks for all the help! Ordered that power supply. I'm really hoping that'll take care of the issue. At the very least we're narrowing down variables. Can't wait to have it all working properly.

Quote:
Danexmurder, if it's like band of static over the screen then that's what I had. Got so frustrated trying to solve it thinking I must have a short on the NESRGB somewhere, so I went and asked Voultar on twitter and he told me it was a power issue. Bought a 2A PSU and I haven't seen the interference since. My guess is the NESRGB board draws extra power, which is too much for 1A. Try and find a 9V 2A PSU on amazon, and check the reviews.


Ordered the one FBX suggested. Thanks for the input! I wish there was a little more documentation about this specifically.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:16 pm 


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Location: Frederick, MD
I just wanted to pop in to say that the Triad power supply did the trick! I have totally clean RGB signal, no interference at all. I couldn't be happier with how it looks. Thanks for all the help!

Here's a shot of MM3 using the Wavebeam pallette on a BVM-14F5U

Image


Last edited by Danexmurder on Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:26 pm 


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You get a big minus sign? :-P
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:03 pm 


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FBX wrote:
You get a big minus sign? :-P


Yup I'm just getting a big stop sign. :P

Glad to hear your problem is solved


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:02 am 


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Location: United Kingdom
Hi all,

I am going to get my AV Famicom modded with Tim's RGB board soon, which is long over due. I am keen for a clean no-cut mod but want the ability to swap pallets if needed but don't want the IGR board installed, as I said I want it a clean and minimalist install as much as possible. So can a switch be soldered directly to the RGB board so if I really need to swap pallets I could by opening up the console?

I plan on having the firmware updated with FBX Smooth, NES Classic and perhaps Wavebeam. After I made an initial choice and play around a bit I probably won't swap them again but it would be handy to have the option if I felt it absolutely necessary to do.

Thanks for any advice.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:48 am 


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Larrs888 wrote:
Hi all,

I am going to get my AV Famicom modded with Tim's RGB board soon, which is long over due. I am keen for a clean no-cut mod but want the ability to swap pallets if needed but don't want the IGR board installed, as I said I want it a clean and minimalist install as much as possible. So can a switch be soldered directly to the RGB board so if I really need to swap pallets I could by opening up the console?

I plan on having the firmware updated with FBX Smooth, NES Classic and perhaps Wavebeam. After I made an initial choice and play around a bit I probably won't swap them again but it would be handy to have the option if I felt it absolutely necessary to do.

Thanks for any advice.


Misread your post. Yes you can solder a switch to the NESRGB board.
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Last edited by unmaker on Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:19 am 


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Yeah there is no reason the palette switch couldn't be internal. Also, I saw a gametech video where he put the palette switch inside the cartridge slot, still requires slight modification to the case but completely invisible from the outside.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:17 pm 


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Thanks to the two above posted your advice is much appreciated. I’ll explore an internal switch, the AV Famicom I picked up last year is in pristine condition I mean seriously it could pass for new old stock(one of the pads has never even been opened) so I’m definitely after a simple and crlean as possible RGB install,It’s almost shame to mod it at all but I did buy it to actually play games on.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:17 pm 



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Installed NESRGB in my AV Famicom. By far the most involved soldering (and desoldering) job I've ever done, but it went off without a hitch.

I do have a USB blaster but I have not tried updating the palette yet -- I read the instructions that the console's power should be ON. Should a game be inserted during this procedure? Or does it not matter?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:38 pm 


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stlpaul wrote:
Installed NESRGB in my AV Famicom. By far the most involved soldering (and desoldering) job I've ever done, but it went off without a hitch.

I do have a USB blaster but I have not tried updating the palette yet -- I read the instructions that the console's power should be ON. Should a game be inserted during this procedure? Or does it not matter?


When I updated my firmware I didn't have a game in the console.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:01 am 


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Don't need a game, just power to the RGB board. Technically you can supply power to the board directly instead of powering on the NES, but it's easier to just turn on the NES to supply power.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:41 pm 


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Hey Danexmurder, have you noticed that band of static since you got that new PSU?

I thought my PSU (just a cheap Amazon 9V 2A PSU) had solved my issue, but I just played on my NES for the first time in a few months and noticed it again. It's possible what I have is completely different from what you had, in which case I have no idea what it is, but assuming it is the same thing I'm gonna try that Triad. But just thought I'd check it actually did solve your issue in the end first.

By the way if anyone in the UK is interested in getting a Triad I found these on digikey.co.uk:
First, the same one FBX linked to:
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/triad-magnetics/WSU090-2500-13/237-2222-ND/6600156

And second, one with different region plugs:
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/triad-magnetics/WSX090-2500-R/237-2140-ND/6165635

It's 100-240V 50/60Hz, but I don't know how expensive shipping is with digkey.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:40 am 


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Digital Dragon wrote:
Hey Danexmurder, have you noticed that band of static since you got that new PSU?

I thought my PSU (just a cheap Amazon 9V 2A PSU) had solved my issue, but I just played on my NES for the first time in a few months and noticed it again. It's possible what I have is completely different from what you had, in which case I have no idea what it is, but assuming it is the same thing I'm gonna try that Triad. But just thought I'd check it actually did solve your issue in the end first.

By the way if anyone in the UK is interested in getting a Triad I found these on digikey.co.uk:
First, the same one FBX linked to:
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/triad-magnetics/WSU090-2500-13/237-2222-ND/6600156

And second, one with different region plugs:
https://www.digikey.co.uk/product-detail/en/triad-magnetics/WSX090-2500-R/237-2140-ND/6165635

It's 100-240V 50/60Hz, but I don't know how expensive shipping is with digkey.co.uk


Yep, the triad cleared it right up! I’ve got perfect picture with no rolling interference now! It hasn’t come back. Everything is holding up well for now. I’d recommend picking one up.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:45 pm 


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I've got someone locally that I trust to install this for me but as the process is going along, I'm asking a bunch of questions. I bought the RGB NES and the component video board. You'll have to forgive me for not wanting to comb through 160 pages of this thread. (By the way, is there a way to search only within a thread?)

The board is outputting an RGB signal. I think I read somewhere that the easiest solution is to use a multi out GCN scart cable to carry that signal to your device. Can 3x RCA component cables carry an RGB signal though? I googled a bunch and couldn't seem to get an answer on that. Is the answer no because the RGB signal requires certain wiring which only a SCART cable has? If the answer is yes, and I am hooking up my NES to a CRT, was buying the component video board a waste? If I understand correctly, the component board converts RGB to YPbPr which can then be sent over 3x RCA component cables. Maybe that board is meant for devices which won't accept RGB, only YPbPr?

Please help me understand this better.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:02 pm 


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Geiger9, RGB also needs sync, so it would need 4 rca. Theres no reason rca cables cant carry RGB, but it's all about whats easiest on the recieving end. If I understood you right you have a consumer crt, thats accepts YPbPr via RCA. RGB via rca or scart wouldn't be useable on your crt. So you would need to install that component board and send YPbPr to your TV.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:19 pm 



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geiger9 wrote:
I think I read somewhere that the easiest solution is to use a multi out GCN scart cable to carry that signal to your device. Can 3x RCA component cables carry an RGB signal though? I googled a bunch and couldn't seem to get an answer on that. Is the answer no because the RGB signal requires certain wiring which only a SCART cable has? If the answer is yes, and I am hooking up my NES to a CRT, was buying the component video board a waste? If I understand correctly, the component board converts RGB to YPbPr which can then be sent over 3x RCA component cables. Maybe that board is meant for devices which won't accept RGB, only YPbPr?

3x RCA component cables can carry RGB, but specifically RGsB (Sync-on-green, SoG), which, in a video game console context, you'll only ever see from an unmodified PS2 when outputting RGB at 480p+.

With most every other console, the RGB output is packaged on 4 wires, RGBS, where that S is a separate wire carrying a sync signal, be it composite video, luma, or clean composite sync. Some consoles, mainly the Dreamcast and Xbox 360, will output 480p+ using five wires, RGBHV, where the horizontal and vertical sync signals are packaged on their own wires. RGBS from game consoles is typically utilized with SCART cables, as SCART was designed to carry RGBS; and RGBHV is utilized with VGA cables.

Buying the component video board, in my opinion, is not a waste, because it means you'll be able to use it with component-only CRTs, especially in North America, where we never really saw SCART or RGBS, just YPbPr. If your CRT takes SCART, then you won't readily need the component board, but it'll be there for when you do need it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:35 pm 


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Thanks Digital Dragon and nmalinoski. This really helps clear things up!

RGB over component cables IS a thing but, in the NES's case, would require a fourth RCA cable for sync which no consumer level North American CRT would have. That's why I needed it converted to YPbPr which only needs 3x RCA cables.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:59 am 


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I found someone locally to install my NES RGB mod + Component board. He's got it all hooked up but the picture is way too blue. Any idea what's going on? Pictures after spoiler:

Spoiler: show
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Ugh, I just previewed these and never realized how large they were. Sorry about that. At least it's a detailed picture? :P

Edit: These were taken at his place with his equipment. He's running the component cables through a 3x RCA -> D-Terminal into the back of his XRGB Mini.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:21 pm 



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I had a rather janky install (not me!) on my NESRGB and it's never really worked 100%. He installed the board, the palette switch, and left my RCA outputs thankfully. I went to play a game, and the colors are only red and black, and there's no sound. I plugged in the RCA cables and there's sound, but the screen is grey and white. I've had problems with the SCART cable port before, but usually jiggling it would fix it. I've opened up the system and seen the solder job, it's not what I'd call pretty. Regardless, anyone know what could be the issue? Images below!

imgur.com/a/UvNLdEP


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:21 am 



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ldeveraux wrote:
I had a rather janky install (not me!) on my NESRGB and it's never really worked 100%. He installed the board, the palette switch, and left my RCA outputs thankfully. I went to play a game, and the colors are only red and black, and there's no sound. I plugged in the RCA cables and there's sound, but the screen is grey and white. I've had problems with the SCART cable port before, but usually jiggling it would fix it. I've opened up the system and seen the solder job, it's not what I'd call pretty. Regardless, anyone know what could be the issue? Images below!

imgur.com/a/UvNLdEP

Is your installer a fan of the Virtual Boy? :)

Photos of the interior would be helpful.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:26 am 


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I'm pretty sure that composite output is normal with a standard NESRGB install.

My guess is some of your color signals have gotten disconnected somewhere, that is what I would investigate first.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:33 am 



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nmalinoski wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
I had a rather janky install (not me!) on my NESRGB and it's never really worked 100%. He installed the board, the palette switch, and left my RCA outputs thankfully. I went to play a game, and the colors are only red and black, and there's no sound. I plugged in the RCA cables and there's sound, but the screen is grey and white. I've had problems with the SCART cable port before, but usually jiggling it would fix it. I've opened up the system and seen the solder job, it's not what I'd call pretty. Regardless, anyone know what could be the issue? Images below!

imgur.com/a/UvNLdEP

Is your installer a fan of the Virtual Boy? :)

Photos of the interior would be helpful.


It looked great until yesterday, then it didn't. I took it apart and added pictures of the board. Everything looks secure and nothing is loose :?:
imgur.com/a/wFHyt4m


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:27 pm 


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ldeveraux wrote:

It looked great until yesterday, then it didn't. I took it apart and added pictures of the board. Everything looks secure and nothing is loose :?:
imgur.com/a/wFHyt4m


Oh good Lord... That soldering work on the pads is fucking terrible. Take a multimeter and test to see if the G and B wires are either shorting to ground or are not making it to the output socket. In either case, that work needs to be wicked off and reflowed by somebody with a clue.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:42 pm 



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Posts: 132
FBX wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:

It looked great until yesterday, then it didn't. I took it apart and added pictures of the board. Everything looks secure and nothing is loose :?:
imgur.com/a/wFHyt4m


Oh good Lord... That soldering work on the pads is fucking terrible. Take a multimeter and test to see if the G and B wires are either shorting to ground or are not making it to the output socket. In either case, that work needs to be wicked off and reflowed by somebody with a clue.


I'll take a peek this afternoon when home. Would this also affect the composite video? I wouldn't think so, but I'm not an expert. Apart from resoldering and looking for shorts, could the PPU or other component have gone south? I'd really hate to have to remove the RGB.

The work on it... is not great. I tried my hand at desoldering the PPU myself and couldn't cut it, so I shipped it back to the guy who sold me the NESRGB to do the mod.


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