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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:09 pm 


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Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Posts: 589
Location: San Jose, CA
I just modded an AV Famicom last night with a new NESRGB board. Through composite, s-video, and RGB, I can see these same artifacts. My old NES with an older NESRGB kit does not have this problem.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:10 pm 



Joined: 27 Nov 2014
Posts: 142
Location: Hellhole
mikejmoffitt wrote:
I just modded an AV Famicom last night with a new NESRGB board. Through composite, s-video, and RGB, I can see these same artifacts. My old NES with an older NESRGB kit does not have this problem.

Damn... Bad batch? I hope not, I bought yesterday a new NESRGB kit :(


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:49 pm 


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Location: San Jose, CA
I might rip apart my NES and compare the boards to see if there is an obvious change responsible for this.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:33 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1043
Location: Toronto, Canada
I always keep a few NESRGB boards around as stock.

My last refresh was end of May and I noticed that the RGB board hasn't changed in a couple of years. If anything, Tim no longer puts the 1.7 sticker on the fpga.

Can you describe the issue you are getting.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:39 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Posts: 19
mikejmoffitt wrote:
I just modded an AV Famicom last night with a new NESRGB board. Through composite, s-video, and RGB, I can see these same artifacts. My old NES with an older NESRGB kit does not have this problem.


The same artifacts as me?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:26 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1043
Location: Toronto, Canada
can you post game and pics of artifacts?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:35 pm 


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Location: San Jose, CA
Please forgive moire patterns:

Image

Look for the lines to the left of the bricks, one line down from the part where it is all black. Something is afoot with capacitance and the clamping period.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:00 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Posts: 19
mikejmoffitt wrote:
Please forgive moire patterns:
img


Looks familiar. If you can make it to the same spot in Mario 2 as my screenshot, it should be super pronounced.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:36 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Posts: 19
here's a pic of some of the bad caps I removed:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:01 pm 


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Location: San Jose, CA
Did replacing the capacitors fix your problem?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:50 pm 



Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Posts: 19
mikejmoffitt wrote:
Did replacing the capacitors fix your problem?


Yes, if you don't have the caps laying around see viletim's post: viewtopic.php?p=1264693#p1264693

You can test if the capacitors are bad that way but he says make sure to not run it very long because the encoder can overheat.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:53 pm 


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Location: San Jose, CA
I've got 220uF electrolytics lying around, so I think it should do fine even if they aren't tantalum caps. I'll play around with it when I get home.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:25 am 



Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Posts: 19
mikejmoffitt wrote:
I've got 220uF electrolytics lying around, so I think it should do fine even if they aren't tantalum caps. I'll play around with it when I get home.


Any luck? Make sure to post your result.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:46 pm 


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Replacing the capacitors did not help. Running with DC Coupling (removing and bypassing them) also did not help. I believe the problem exists before or at the point of the video encoder.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:45 am 



Joined: 24 Jun 2017
Posts: 19
Sorry to hear that :(

I wonder if it's an effect that's occurring after the NESRGB, in your monitor or any switches between it. It might be harder to see on another console though because it seems to manifest with thick bold full screen lines, which happens often with NES games.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:50 am 


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mikejmoffitt wrote:
Replacing the capacitors did not help. Running with DC Coupling (removing and bypassing them) also did not help. I believe the problem exists before or at the point of the video encoder.


Seems you're having the same issue as me. Outputting RGB before the coupling caps didn't help me either. Unfortunately I don't know enough about electronics to figure what's wrong and how to fix it.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:31 am 


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Location: San Jose, CA
Quantum wrote:
Sorry to hear that :(

I wonder if it's an effect that's occurring after the NESRGB, in your monitor or any switches between it. It might be harder to see on another console though because it seems to manifest with thick bold full screen lines, which happens often with NES games.


My older NESRGB on the same monitor doesn't do it. I see the same lines across four monitors and one capture card.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:23 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1043
Location: Toronto, Canada
Are you sure it's not the NES?

Before I start any mod, I always test the console. Multiple times now I ran into front loading NES consoles that had video glitches in the composite out. Most times it was because of failing capacitors. But one time it was a failing power regulator.

Have you removed the original video transistor? It's a must for HDMI install and I believe for NESRGB as well.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:32 pm 



Joined: 29 Nov 2016
Posts: 78
Please forgive me if this has been discussed, but I searched the whole thread and didn't see a similar problem. I installed my NESRGB some time ago. I also installed an SNES style multi out connector. RGB and S-video work fantastic. for some reason I can't get the composite video out to work. Here's a rundown of my setup:
1) NES RBG installed
2) s-video enabled
3) RGB connected with CS#
4) Multi out connector installed
5) palette switch wired for normal - off - improved

I've tried wiring the composite out to V and also PPUV. I've tried putting the switch in every position with it wired either way and still no luck. I can still get perfect composite out of the original jacks, but nothing on the multi-out connector. I checked connectivity just to be sure and that's good. Is there some component in the circuit I should suspect that may be knocking out the signal whether its PPU composite or encoded composite? In the grand scheme of things it's not all that important, I'd just like to make it work for the sake of it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:32 pm 


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Location: San Jose, CA
The original jack shouldn't give you good composite, unless the NESRGB is switched off. Conversely the NESRGB's V output will not work at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:40 pm 



Joined: 29 Nov 2016
Posts: 78
mikejmoffitt wrote:
The original jack shouldn't give you good composite, unless the NESRGB is switched off. Conversely the NESRGB's V output will not work at the same time.


For clarification, the original jacks are functioning only with the color switch in the off position. It's the composite video on the multi out connector that I can't get to work. No matter how I hook it up or what position the switch is in.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:59 pm 


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Posts: 269
jwo825 wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:
The original jack shouldn't give you good composite, unless the NESRGB is switched off. Conversely the NESRGB's V output will not work at the same time.


For clarification, the original jacks are functioning only with the color switch in the off position. It's the composite video on the multi out connector that I can't get to work. No matter how I hook it up or what position the switch is in.

Have you connected the Composite video signal to pin 3 or pin 9 of the MULTI OUT connector?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:21 pm 



Joined: 29 Nov 2016
Posts: 78
Link83 wrote:
jwo825 wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:
The original jack shouldn't give you good composite, unless the NESRGB is switched off. Conversely the NESRGB's V output will not work at the same time.


For clarification, the original jacks are functioning only with the color switch in the off position. It's the composite video on the multi out connector that I can't get to work. No matter how I hook it up or what position the switch is in.

Have you connected the Composite video signal to pin 3 or pin 9 of the MULTI OUT connector?


I have the composite video run to pin 9 of the MULTI OUT I have pin 3 wired for csync for the RGB out.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:55 pm 


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jwo825 wrote:
I have the composite video run to pin 9 of the MULTI OUT I have pin 3 wired for csync for the RGB out.

Hmm, are you using a PAL or NTSC Composite Video cable? (PAL cables have a 75ohm resistor to ground inside the plug, which is not required/necessary for the NESRGB)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:58 pm 



Joined: 29 Nov 2016
Posts: 78
Link83 wrote:
jwo825 wrote:
I have the composite video run to pin 9 of the MULTI OUT I have pin 3 wired for csync for the RGB out.

Hmm, are you using a PAL or NTSC Composite Video cable? (PAL cables have a 75ohm resistor to ground inside the plug, which is not required/necessary for the NESRGB)


I have an NTSC system and I'm testing it with the OEM NTSC SNES composite cable.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:31 am 



Joined: 14 Jan 2014
Posts: 165
I have this same problem. Is there a definitive answer about how to fix it yet? I have an rgb modded NES as well but I also see this same issue on my genesis (multiple tvs and cables tested) where dark black lines exist near a solid background.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:50 am 



Joined: 14 Jan 2014
Posts: 165
Here's my rgb modded NES. It was done by Todd Scheele recently so pretty sure install is good. Is this bad caps in the NES?

Image


Last edited by tzakiel on Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:58 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1333
That's strange. mikejmoffitt has the exact same problem. I wonder why those horizontal jailbars only manifest on a small strip of the screen.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:15 am 



Joined: 14 Jan 2014
Posts: 165
GeneraLight wrote:
That's strange. mikejmoffitt has the exact same problem. I wonder why those horizontal jailbars only manifest on a small strip of the screen.


It's due to the black lines in the bricks being to the left of the background. I see this in any game with black lines against a solid background. The more horizontal space the black line takes up, the worse the streaks are across the nearby background color.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:52 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1043
Location: Toronto, Canada
what game is that? I can test on my system.


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