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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:06 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1026
Location: Toronto, Canada
Rework stations are primarily for surface mount ICs. The NES for the most part uses through holes. You gotta use the right tool for the job. Desolder station heats the solder to the correct temperature for any given pin and then uses suction to pull it out. When I'm done desoldering the PPU it falls out on its own and the pads look like nothing was ever there before.

The problem with using a rework station on big through hole ICs like the PPU is that all pads must be molten for you to pull the chip. By the time that happens the PPU itself gets pretty hot! You probably can't even touch it! And then you waste more time cleaning the molten mess left behind after you remove the PPU.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:54 am 



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 647
I agree with leonk, a desoldering gun is the best tool for removing through-hole / DIP components.
That said, a Hakko desoldering gun might be a little more than what people are willing to pay for a one-time mod.
But if you foresee doing a lot of through-hole desoldering, a proper desoldering gun will save you a lot of hassle.

One way to do it that's relatively safe is to simply clip the legs near the board. However, since it looks
like you have to resolder the PPU onto the NESRGB board, this might be less than desirable since it will
shorten the legs and make it more difficult to resolder.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:25 am 


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Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 139
Location: Vice City
mannn my F5 key cannot take the suspense!

OP how's it coming?
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:16 am 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 469
Location: Sydney, Australia
philexile wrote:
Drakon wrote:
Only issue with my first run batch is the lack of grayscale mode which is getting added.


Hi Drakon, could you elaborate on this issue? I know in your demo video you showed how it affects FF3 – offhand do you know of other games that would have similar problems?



This bug has been fixed.

IrishNinja wrote:
mannn my F5 key cannot take the suspense!

OP how's it coming?


Open for orders:
http://etim.net.au/nesrgb


arcadeswede,
Yes, the voltage regulator is included. Everything necessary for installation in included except for wire, and a NES.

leonk,
Thanks for the criticism. I'll make some changes...

I'm sure that gluing the connector in with epoxy is strong enough, the area for glue is quite large and the only time it is stressed is when the connector is removed. This particular connector cannot be mounted any other way (it is designed to be held in place by its solder joints). I had intended to offer another type of connector for an extra dollar or two which can be mounted without glue. Such things will have to wait until I have a real shopping cart system in place.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:27 am 



Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 48
Location: Sweden
Ordered!!!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:18 am 


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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 434
Location: Texas, USA
Is there some way to add the board, cable, and adapter to the same invoice? It keeps clearing out my cart when I hit back to add the next item. I tried 2 different browsers and its doing the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:27 am 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 469
Location: Sydney, Australia
mickcris wrote:
Is there some way to add the board, cable, and adapter to the same invoice? It keeps clearing out my cart when I hit back to add the next item. I tried 2 different browsers and its doing the same thing.


No, there isn't. Three items = three invoices. I know it's silly, but this is all I can do for now.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:29 am 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Toronto Canada
viletim wrote:
mickcris wrote:
Is there some way to add the board, cable, and adapter to the same invoice? It keeps clearing out my cart when I hit back to add the next item. I tried 2 different browsers and its doing the same thing.


No, there isn't. Three items = three invoices. I know it's silly, but this is all I can do for now.


Odd, does it at least combine shipping? I would imagine if somebody orders all three they can e-mail you and let you know so you can combine shipping and refund redundant shipping charges. I've found e-mailing Viletim works best, he replies very promptly and gets everything sorted out. It might be easier just to e-mail Tim first with your order and get him to write you an invoice.
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Last edited by Drakon on Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:31 am 



Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 168
What's on the little PCB?
Image


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:38 am 


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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 434
Location: Texas, USA
viletim wrote:
mickcris wrote:
Is there some way to add the board, cable, and adapter to the same invoice? It keeps clearing out my cart when I hit back to add the next item. I tried 2 different browsers and its doing the same thing.


No, there isn't. Three items = three invoices. I know it's silly, but this is all I can do for now.

ok. no problem. i just sometimes get a fraud alert when i make multiple paypal payments in a short period of time. seems like all 3 went through without a problem. :)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:44 am 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 469
Location: Sydney, Australia
Drakon wrote:
Odd, does it at least combine shipping? I would imagine if somebody orders all three they can e-mail you and let you know so you can combine shipping and refund redundant shipping charges.


It's no problem. Postage/shipping is only charged for the NESRGB board, not the cables and adapters.

mufunyo wrote:
What's on the little PCB?

A little charge pump voltage converter. It generates 12V from the 5V supply available for SCART switching.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:48 am 


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Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 464
Location: Singapore
Order placed :D
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:56 am 


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Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1289
Location: Bedfordshire, England.
viletim, if i order 2 boards can i get reduced shipping charges to the UK?

Basically want to order 2 boards and 2 scart cables


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:59 am 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Toronto Canada
lettuce wrote:
viletim, if i order 2 boards can i get reduced shipping charges to the UK?

Basically want to order 2 boards and 2 scart cables


Should be able to get combined shipping. When I e-mailed him I was able to work out combined shipping.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:02 pm 


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Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1289
Location: Bedfordshire, England.
Ok cool.

Regarding the desoldering stations, this is the cheapest one i could find,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Duratool-Desold ... esoldering

Not sure if its a good make or not


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:04 pm 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Toronto Canada
lettuce wrote:
Ok cool.

Regarding the desoldering stations, this is the cheapest one i could find,

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Duratool-Desold ... esoldering

Not sure if its a good make or not


Use a solder rework station.
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Last edited by Drakon on Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:13 pm 


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Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1289
Location: Bedfordshire, England.
Well this is what i usually use


Image

For removing IC chips, but never used it for a PPU type chip before


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:16 pm 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Toronto Canada
lettuce wrote:
Well this is what i usually use


Image

For removing IC chips, but never used it for a PPU type chip before


hot air rework station is great.
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Last edited by Drakon on Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:24 pm 



Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 168
I don't know what's up with all these heavy handed desoldering methods, but I once tried to do a ROM swap from a NES cart to a Famicom cart and fried the ROM after just desoldering two pins with a regular soldering iron and a spring loaded solder sucker. The PPU might be more heat-resistant than your average mask ROM, but I'd imagine it too has a maximum temperature it can withstand. Use the right tools or risk frying your PPU (or other parts nearby)!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:28 pm 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Toronto Canada
mufunyo wrote:
I don't know what's up with all these heavy handed desoldering methods, but I once tried to do a ROM swap from a NES cart to a Famicom cart and fried the ROM after just desoldering two pins with a regular soldering iron and a spring loaded solder sucker. The PPU might be more heat-resistant than your average mask ROM, but I'd imagine it too has a maximum temperature it can withstand. Use the right tools or risk frying your PPU (or other parts nearby)!


solder rework stations.
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Last edited by Drakon on Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:29 pm 


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Location: Where the fish lives, WV
Any idea of how long it may take for this to be available for top loaders?
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:31 pm 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Toronto Canada
evil_ash_xero wrote:
Any idea of how long it may take for this to be available for top loaders?

He already has the necessary adapter for sale on his website for 8$.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:00 pm 


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Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1289
Location: Bedfordshire, England.
Drakon wrote:

Don't know what temperatures that will give. I just used my paint removing heat gun yesterday to socket the cpu, ppu, and two ram chips of a broken twin yesterday (got it going again it was a dead ram chip)


Goes up to 420f, i usually have it around 320f for desoldering

Not sure what temps a normal paint stripper gun gets up to however!?


Last edited by lettuce on Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:02 pm 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Toronto Canada
lettuce wrote:
Drakon wrote:

Don't know what temperatures that will give. I just used my paint removing heat gun yesterday to socket the cpu, ppu, and two ram chips of a broken twin yesterday (got it going again it was a dead ram chip)


Goes up to 420f, i usually have it around 320f for desoldering

Not sure what temps a normal paint stripper gun gets up to however!?

Solder rework station.
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Last edited by Drakon on Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:03 pm 


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Joined: 22 Jun 2011
Posts: 1289
Location: Bedfordshire, England.
Drakon wrote:
lettuce wrote:
Drakon wrote:

Don't know what temperatures that will give. I just used my paint removing heat gun yesterday to socket the cpu, ppu, and two ram chips of a broken twin yesterday (got it going again it was a dead ram chip)


Goes up to 420f, i usually have it around 320f for desoldering

Not sure what temps a normal paint stripper gun gets up to however!?

Should work if you're patient enough. Mine does either 482f or 842f, I guess they decided to switch the 4 and the 8 around.



Shouldnt need it that high, i think most common solder melting point is about 320f!!. Not sure what type of solder is used in the NES however!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:11 pm 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Toronto Canada
lettuce wrote:
Shouldnt need it that high, i think most common solder melting point is about 320f!!. Not sure what type of solder is used in the NES however!

Solder rework station.
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Last edited by Drakon on Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:14 pm 



Joined: 20 Jun 2013
Posts: 91
Location: Denver, CO
Hell yea! Got my order for 2 boards and 2 cables in.

Cant wait to get them up and running.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:15 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1026
Location: Toronto, Canada
Drakon wrote:
Honestly I use a 15$ paint removing heatgun, vice grips and thick gloves. I found a youtube video where krikzz (author of the everdrives) desolders through hole chips using pliers and a gas stove.


No disrespect but if you charge people 200$ for mods and have done a few of them, it blows my mind that you use this method to remove IC's from circuit boards. For 1/2 the cost of one of your mods, you can have a good desoldering station that will make your job twice as fast and making it look professional every time.

Using a heatgun to remove ICs is equivalent to doing fine woodworking with a chainsaw. You can do it, but it shows.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:20 pm 


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Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 847
Location: San Jose, CA
I would never use a heat gun for removing ICs, it's far better to use a proper desoldering station as you don't risk pulling up pads or traces and it produces very clean results.

C'mon Drakon, you could've been able to afford a Hakko 808 (which I would love to have BTW) with the prices you charge for mods.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:22 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1026
Location: Toronto, Canada
You guys realize that standard circuit board IC's are rated at 85C max. More commercial industrial ones are rated at 105C.

When one solders/correctly desolders an IC, the heat is supplied to only 1 pin, for a very quick moment. When you use a heat gun, you provide heat across the entire IC for much longer period (30+ seconds!!) The IC does not have enough time/surface area to dissipate that kind of brutal attack!!

Does it work after it cools down, probably.. Will the IC work 10 years from now? Maybe, probably not - you significantly shortened the life span of the device, cooking caps and drying out other dielectrics in the process! Please stop cooking these devices. Buy and use the correct tools for the job. Especially if you charge people for your work!


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