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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:50 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
that's what's just being discussed. There are multiple versions of SNES cables (NTSC with caps, European without, but with resistors instead, Cube cables are like NTSC SNES cables) and the internal RGB encoder might not be a perfect match for all of them.

But in general, of course, if you pay attention that the encoder and cable config match, then you're good to go.


The short answer is that none of the official Nintendo RGB cables are suitable for use with this kit as designed.

You have to either modify the cable so that no caps or resistors to ground are present, or bypass the AC coupling caps on the kit if you're using a SHVC-010 (stock cable). If you couldn't already determine this information by looking at the first post...
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:30 pm 



Joined: 04 Sep 2010
Posts: 1801
Location: Denmark
Isnt the whole point of using an official Nintendo RGB cable to get a bit more out of your investment by using said cable with one more system in addition to whatever systems you originally bought the cable for?

If so, then modifying the cable is not an ideal solution.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:36 pm 


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Location: Vienna
I am not anal about the cable. I gladly use every cable, as long it is bringing me the rgb. :mrgreen:

I think it more of a collector-thing why to use the original cable... :o


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:15 pm 



Joined: 10 Sep 2010
Posts: 7
also if you have the ability to install this, you should have no problem unscrewing an scart and modifying it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:23 pm 


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Location: Berlin, Germany
Well, personally, I'm rocking a cap-less GCN cable for my GCN and SNES.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:48 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
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Location: Toronto, Canada
Not sure why all this talk about USA snes rgb cables in context of the nes. Unless you butcher up an snes or newer system for its proprietary multi-out connector to fit inside your USA front or top loader, this cable won't work for you.

The maker of this device seems to have left it up to the user to decide how to feed the rgb signal from the pcb. One can install a PC VGA socket, rca jacks for each color + sync, or hack in an snes multiout.

Any preference?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:55 am 


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Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 224
Location: USA
I'm probably just going to do RCA jacks since im using a PVM. The toaster I plan on using is already in rough shape anyway so further "butchering" won't really bother me.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:22 am 


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Location: San Jose, CA
I recently installed an SNES AV port in my front loader in preparation of this. I also socketed the PPU at the same time so once I get one of these it should be a largely painless process.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:46 am 



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Arizona, United States
leonk wrote:
Not sure why all this talk about USA snes rgb cables in context of the nes. Unless you butcher up an snes or newer system for its proprietary multi-out connector to fit inside your USA front or top loader, this cable won't work for you.
I'm interested in putting the kit into my AV Famicom, so SNES RGB-21 cable-compatibility is important to me. Just my 2¢.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:24 pm 


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one more day until release, then? so hype! is the website for orders ready yet? i'm looking to grab one for me & one for a friend.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:24 pm 


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I am curious about the issue of palettes. Is the true palette simply unknown? Could it be discovered by de-capping? Does Nintendo know what it is? Is it possibly embedded in the Wii VC (or even that GC Zelda compilation that can run mapper 1 games)?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:34 pm 


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Location: Bedfordshire, England.
Got hold of a NTSC NES now so super stoked to get one of these devices on release!!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:28 pm 



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Any one in the uk able to fit one of these for me please? (For some money obviously) :D

I don't think my soldering skillz will be up to the job as I imagine it will be a difficult mod?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:09 pm 


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I read something about fitting this inside a toploader is not avaible right now. Any news on that?
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:08 am 


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It's October 19th in Australia. Where's the order page Tim?! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:50 am 



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 469
Location: Sydney, Australia
I'm not ready for orders today, sorry. Wait until tomorrow.

For now I have some installation instructions for the front loader NES:
http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/installation-nes/

I suggest the use of an 8 pin mini din connectors for video. Some more words on the topic here:
http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/rgb_connector.htm

Regarding AV Famicom RGB cable compatibility: You can use the Japanese RGB-21 cable if you bypass the output capacitors on the NESRGB board. It is impossible to use the official SCART cable unless you modify it (remove the resistors).

antron,

Yes, the palette is known and can be calculated fairly easily. The 'natural' palette has pretty much identical colours to the composite video you are used to. The others are included for fun.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:51 am 


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lunch_box wrote:
Any one in the uk able to fit one of these for me please? (For some money obviously) :D

I don't think my soldering skillz will be up to the job as I imagine it will be a difficult mod?


I could probably do it for you, but ill do my 2 systems first so i get the hang of it


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:00 pm 


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viletim, is the front loader nes hard to mod than the top loader nes? Also will you be doing a youtube video of the install?

Also is it ok to use a Hot Air Rework Station on the PPU rather than wick and sucker method....never 100% sure on Hot Air Rework Stations on retro gaming equipment?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:26 pm 


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lettuce wrote:
lunch_box wrote:
Any one in the uk able to fit one of these for me please? (For some money obviously) :D

I don't think my soldering skillz will be up to the job as I imagine it will be a difficult mod?


I could probably do it for you, but ill do my 2 systems first so i get the hang of it

I'd be interested in your services as well, can you PM me with a price?
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:54 pm 


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Jockel wrote:
lettuce wrote:
lunch_box wrote:
Any one in the uk able to fit one of these for me please? (For some money obviously) :D

I don't think my soldering skillz will be up to the job as I imagine it will be a difficult mod?


I could probably do it for you, but ill do my 2 systems first so i get the hang of it

I'd be interested in your services as well, can you PM me with a price?


Not sure on price, as said ill do my 2 system first to see how time consuming it is, but doesnt look too difficult


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:02 pm 



Joined: 01 Jul 2011
Posts: 52
lettuce wrote:
lunch_box wrote:
Any one in the uk able to fit one of these for me please? (For some money obviously) :D

I don't think my soldering skillz will be up to the job as I imagine it will be a difficult mod?


I could probably do it for you, but ill do my 2 systems first so i get the hang of it


Cheers dude that would be great :D


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:03 pm 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Toronto Canada
markfrizb wrote:
Is the rgb output going to be amplified enough to drive a monitor directly from the NESRGB? If so, suggest that you have 2 possible outputs.... A lower voltage output for computer type monitors that use .75 to 1volt pp and then the option of a higher output for REAL arcade monitors that use 2-3volt pp. because the computer type outputs (the lower voltage) make the picture very dark on real arcade monitors. This would be especially helpful if you can use your pcb on playchoice 10 in an arcade environment.


The output is home level rgb it's just a ba7236af encoder with built in amp. For arcade level rgb you'd need to run the output through another amp (ultimarc etc) to get it to arcade levels.

Glossectomy wrote:
Do the voltage regulators come with the boards, or is that something I'll need to purchase seperately? If so can I get a recommendation for the type pictured in the install? Thanks!


My early one came with a regulator. I wired it up, it made the output darker looking so I switched back to using the built in 7805. Mine runs fine with just the built in 7805 using the kit + flashcarts. An easy solution is to buy a power brick that outputs over 1 amp.

mufunyo wrote:
Am I correct in assuming that Famicom AV owners won't need the mini DIN? Does the NESRGB have the correct signal level / impedance to use with official Nintendo RGB cables through the AV multi out? I recall something about capacitors/resistors inside the multi AV cables.


Just remove the 220 uf caps from the snes rgb cable and you're good to go.

antron wrote:
I am curious about the issue of palettes. Is the true palette simply unknown? Could it be discovered by de-capping? Does Nintendo know what it is? Is it possibly embedded in the Wii VC (or even that GC Zelda compilation that can run mapper 1 games)?


Pallette is the same as the default composite ppu output:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luzNLumoFqE

Only issue with my first run batch is the lack of grayscale mode which is getting added.

arcadeswede wrote:
I read something about fitting this inside a toploader is not avaible right now. Any news on that?


It fits just the top half of the case won't close because the pcb sticks out too far to the one side. I sent measurements to get an adapter made that should allow it to fit in both the nes 2 and av famicom, the one adapter should make it fit in both of these systems.

lettuce wrote:
viletim, is the front loader nes hard to mod than the top loader nes? Also will you be doing a youtube video of the install?

Also is it ok to use a Hot Air Rework Station on the PPU rather than wick and sucker method....never 100% sure on Hot Air Rework Stations on retro gaming equipment?


I hot air out the ppu chip and then use a radioshack desoldering iron to suck out the solder left in the through holes before installing a socket. Zero damage to the pcb this way and no difficulty with the process.

Image

This is why it needs an adapter.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:59 pm 


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Posts: 31
Can't wait to order some.
What exactly is included in the price?

I'm worried about the voltage regulator thing. I don't know what to get so I'm hoping this will be included.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:01 pm 


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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 411
Location: Toronto Canada
arcadeswede wrote:
Can't wait to order some.
What exactly is included in the price?

I'm worried about the voltage regulator thing. I don't know what to get so I'm hoping this will be included.


Just a second 7805 regulator that you bolt to a heatsink and wire exclusively into the nesrgb kit.
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:13 pm 



Joined: 07 Jul 2011
Posts: 212
Mark me down for an order!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:19 pm 


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Can you switch between the different palettes instantly while playing a game, or do you have to turn off/reset the NES?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:34 pm 



Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 401
Drakon wrote:
Only issue with my first run batch is the lack of grayscale mode which is getting added.


Hi Drakon, could you elaborate on this issue? I know in your demo video you showed how it affects FF3 – offhand do you know of other games that would have similar problems?

Drakon wrote:
I hot air out the ppu chip and then use a radioshack desoldering iron to suck out the solder left in the through holes before installing a socket. Zero damage to the pcb this way and no difficulty with the process.


I just want to point out that not everyone (especially first timers) can use a hot air gun effectively. It takes practice and you do run the risk of melting your PPU or other components on the board.

Successfully removing the PPU is difficult, so if you don't have experience removing ICs don't start with this mod – hire someone to do it for you. :)


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:50 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1026
Location: Toronto, Canada
I'm not sure why anyone uses a hot air gun for any electronic work! It should only be used to strip paint and nothing more!

The correct way to remove through hole components (like the PPU) is a desoldering station. They don't cost that much more than soldering stations if you buy used from eBay. Heck, even the dirt cheap Hakko 808 is light years ahead of heat gun. Buy a good desolder gun/station and it will last you for the rest of your life.

You don't use a lighter to solder, please don't use heat gun / hot air gun to desolder.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:10 pm 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1026
Location: Toronto, Canada
Thank you for sharing the install diagrams and instructions. I now have a better understanding of the components. If I may, Id like to offer the following suggestions for improvement:

- inform the user that they don't have to install the pallette switch. If they want certain output then they can bridge the wires on the pcb.
- Relying on epoxy to hold the video plug is not a good idea. I would prefer to see one where mechanical fastening is used. There's a lot of force on that plug and the epoxy will fail eventually.
- I've never had good luck with hand pump/braid removing PPU cleanly. Let users know that a desoldering station is the preferred professional removal method.
- "insulated copper wire" might not be descriptive enough for new users. They might do something silly like try to use 30ga solid core wire for RGB out!
- there seems to be a disjoint between the wiring diagram and pics. The wiring diagram shows output going to specific pins of rgb plug but in pic it goes to a pcb?

See: http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/installation- ... _large.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available soon
PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 12:33 am 


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Location: Bedfordshire, England.
leonk wrote:
I'm not sure why anyone uses a hot air gun for any electronic work! It should only be used to strip paint and nothing more!

The correct way to remove through hole components (like the PPU) is a desoldering station. They don't cost that much more than soldering stations if you buy used from eBay. Heck, even the dirt cheap Hakko 808 is light years ahead of heat gun. Buy a good desolder gun/station and it will last you for the rest of your life.

You don't use a lighter to solder, please don't use heat gun / hot air gun to desolder.



I use a rework station as its quick and effective, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D0oTGeheBA but i can see why people use the desolder station as well would just take a lot more time especially with the PPU on the NES


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