NESRGB board available now

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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

Thanks. Hopefully this works!
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

jkuch77 wrote:
Lopenator wrote:I just ordered a couple of 50pf and 100pf caps. When they come in I'll update also.

Is there a ground next to the pin 13/CE signal so I'm not running a wire all the way across?
Pin 20 of the PPU is ground and is what I used. I don't have any of the larger caps, so just ordered a few of the 100p and 220p caps, so will be a few days before I can update also.
I wonder if this is happening to other people. I don't notice any other complaints though.

Is a NESRGB firmware update in the realm of possibilities to correct this?
Last edited by Lopenator on Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
elgarlic
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by elgarlic »

Lopenator wrote: Is a NESRGB firmware update in the realm of possibilities to correct this?
I'm interested in this question as well. I've got a board preordered from an official reseller (eagerly anticipating it, I've already removed my frontloader's PPU). AFAIK, they don't have their stock yet, and if this can be fixed with a firmware update, I certainly wouldn't mind waiting to play it safe.
Last edited by elgarlic on Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
hawaplop
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by hawaplop »

jkuch77 wrote:
jkuch77 wrote:I installed a 47pF ceramic cap (470 stamped on it) that I had lying around between pin 13 and ground of the PPU as suggested. The color issue appeared immediately after loading a game from the everdrive, but after a reset it was fine and I played for about 20 min without the color issue happening. Also, loaded a different game and played for about 10 min. So far so good it looks like. I have to go to bed now, but I will play much longer tomorrow and let you know if the issue returns.
viletim wrote:It might me a good idea to try a 100p, or possibly even a 220p capacitor instead. Ideally, the wrong colour symptom should not occur at all once the cap in installed.

On the PAL top loader I have which has the same problem, I found it had to be at a particular temperature to occur. Too cold or too hot it didn't happen. Once I put the cap on the CE# signal it never happened again.
I just played Super Mario Bros. for about only 15 min just now and the color issue did happen again after about 10 min. I will try the larger cap and post back my results.
Had a front loader taking about 10-15 seconds to get the colors right on a SMB3 cartridge; thought there was a power issue and modded another front loader which played the same cartridge perfectly fine but had issues with the Everdrive Pro that everyone is describing. I saw this thread and just used an 0805 47pF ceramic cap I had laying around and had my Everdrive Pro on for about 30+ minutes with the second console mentioned without any issues. I just did the same to the first console I mentioned and it no longer produced that power issue; having it stay on currently for up to 30-40 minutes to see what happens. It may possibly require different types of caps depending on the motherboard revision or just something that is random. I’ll write back later in regards to how the first console holds up.
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

hawaplop wrote:
jkuch77 wrote:
jkuch77 wrote:I installed a 47pF ceramic cap (470 stamped on it) that I had lying around between pin 13 and ground of the PPU as suggested. The color issue appeared immediately after loading a game from the everdrive, but after a reset it was fine and I played for about 20 min without the color issue happening. Also, loaded a different game and played for about 10 min. So far so good it looks like. I have to go to bed now, but I will play much longer tomorrow and let you know if the issue returns.
viletim wrote:It might me a good idea to try a 100p, or possibly even a 220p capacitor instead. Ideally, the wrong colour symptom should not occur at all once the cap in installed.

On the PAL top loader I have which has the same problem, I found it had to be at a particular temperature to occur. Too cold or too hot it didn't happen. Once I put the cap on the CE# signal it never happened again.
I just played Super Mario Bros. for about only 15 min just now and the color issue did happen again after about 10 min. I will try the larger cap and post back my results.
Had a front loader taking about 10-15 seconds to get the colors right on a SMB3 cartridge; thought there was a power issue and modded another front loader which played the same cartridge perfectly fine but had issues with the Everdrive Pro that everyone is describing. I saw this thread and just used an 0805 47pF ceramic cap I had laying around and had my Everdrive Pro on for about 30+ minutes with the second console mentioned without any issues. I just did the same to the first console I mentioned and it no longer produced that power issue; having it stay on currently for up to 30-40 minutes to see what happens. It may possibly require different types of caps depending on the motherboard revision or just something that is random. I’ll write back later in regards to how the first console holds up.
It has taken my NES 2.5 hours before the incorrect color symptom has appeared.
hawaplop
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by hawaplop »

Lopenator wrote:
hawaplop wrote: Had a front loader taking about 10-15 seconds to get the colors right on a SMB3 cartridge; thought there was a power issue and modded another front loader which played the same cartridge perfectly fine but had issues with the Everdrive Pro that everyone is describing. I saw this thread and just used an 0805 47pF ceramic cap I had laying around and had my Everdrive Pro on for about 30+ minutes with the second console mentioned without any issues. I just did the same to the first console I mentioned and it no longer produced that power issue; having it stay on currently for up to 30-40 minutes to see what happens. It may possibly require different types of caps depending on the motherboard revision or just something that is random. I’ll write back later in regards to how the first console holds up.
It has taken my NES 2.5 hours before the incorrect color symptom has appeared.
Did you reset or power off and on the console and have the issue there immediately?
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

No. As soon as I reset the console the issue was gone and would randomly appear again.
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

Well I figured out why my svideo didn't work. I had Luma and Chroma mixed up on my multi out.
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

elgarlic wrote:
Lopenator wrote: Is a NESRGB firmware update in the realm of possibilities to correct this?
I'm interested in this question as well. I've got a board preordered from an official reseller (eagerly anticipating it, I've already removed my frontloader's PPU). AFAIK, they don't have their stock yet, and if this can be fixed with a firmware update, I certainly wouldn't mind waiting to play it safe. Thank you
It's a little weird to be because there aren't that many people here with the issue.
elgarlic
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by elgarlic »

Lopenator wrote:
elgarlic wrote:
Lopenator wrote: Is a NESRGB firmware update in the realm of possibilities to correct this?
I'm interested in this question as well. I've got a board preordered from an official reseller (eagerly anticipating it, I've already removed my frontloader's PPU). AFAIK, they don't have their stock yet, and if this can be fixed with a firmware update, I certainly wouldn't mind waiting to play it safe. Thank you
It's a little weird to be because there aren't that many people here with the issue.
Well, if it does indeed take a while for the error to present itself, after powering on, that may partially explain it. Like many, I'm guilty of modding consoles, testing them, and then putting them on the shelf for a long time before the urge strikes to play games for that particular system. :)
Leaniel
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Leaniel »

viletim wrote:
Leaniel wrote:Thx but Know that but even without that mod and removing this line the problem is there too.
At zhe moment the expansion Audio mod is remove.

Low audio and goes silent in seconds.
Most time it's that short that it not apear on the display.

All capacitor and resistor below the Audio soldering points on the nesrgb are tested and ok.
No cross contacts on the soldering points and cable are working too.

I can take the cable and desoldering and bridge them together and the Audio is there on the multi out.

Even on the chinch out the Audio works.

It's clear the nesrgb itself.

But what parts of it can it be and how to test

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Here is the NESRGB audio circuit. It's the same on all hardware versions.

Image

DC voltage on the op-amp pins should be approximately,
  • 1) 1.7V
  • 2) 0V
  • 3) 1.7V
  • 4) 1.7V
  • 5) 5V
(measured with the console on but no cartridge inserted)
So I get from the chip
1 = 1,7V
2 = 0V
3 = 1,0V
4 = 4,99V
5 = 4,99V


i measure the Resistor like on the Schematics and have a difference.
R81 = 10,6 KOhm
R82 = 11,3 KOhm
R83 = 20 KOhm

Are these Correct?
I would say the Chip is dead or?

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viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

Port Zero wrote:Hi Tim,

I've installed NESRGB v4 to my AV Famicom. It works correctly with crispy pixels now. I really like this. Thank you for your hard work on such great product.

I have an issue on palette switch by the controller. I close J1 and connect 4 wires of clock, latch, data and reset. But I cannot switch palette nor reset in-game.

Yeah, my soldering is not good, but it's tested by multimeter. Would you give me a clue for this issue?
It doesn't work because you soldered to the wrong pins on the controller port. The old diagram I made was very ambiguous. The new one is much more clear.
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

Leaniel wrote:So I get from the chip
1 = 1,7V
2 = 0V
3 = 1,0V
4 = 4,99V
5 = 4,99V


i measure the Resistor like on the Schematics and have a difference.
R81 = 10,6 KOhm
R82 = 11,3 KOhm
R83 = 20 KOhm

Are these Correct?
I would say the Chip is dead or?

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It's normal that R81 and R82 measure differently in circuit, because there is some resistance of other components between 5V and GND. You measure 1.7V at the junction between them so they are fine.

I would measure the resistance between pin 3 and pin 4. If you measure 47k then I'd say the op-amp is bad, if you measure nothing then suspect a bad solder joint.
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

As far as I can tell there are two separate problems that some people are having with version 4.

Colour changing bug.
I found that the Super Mario Bros 3 map screen is a good test for this as it continually updates the palette without any user input. If the conditions are just right the palette ram access will fail and palette indexes will either be black or an entirely wrong colour. It seems this can be fixed by placing a small capacitor (47pf seems to work best) between pin 13 (CE#) of the PPU and ground.

PPU sync bug.
The NESRGB will sync to the PPU ok during start up, but will lose sync by itself at some point. It seems to happen more often when an Everdrive cartridge is used. It looks like the images moves left and right by about 1 pixel and there are colour fringes on the edges of graphics. Here's a video of the symptom. I haven't been able to reproduce this one yet, but I suspect some kind of clock buffer circuit will be required to solve it.

elgarlic wrote:
Lopenator wrote:It's a little weird to be because there aren't that many people here with the issue.
Well, if it does indeed take a while for the error to present itself, after powering on, that may partially explain it. Like many, I'm guilty of modding consoles, testing them, and then putting them on the shelf for a long time before the urge strikes to play games for that particular system. :)
I don't really know. I haven't received that many complaints about these two problems, maybe six or seven in total.
Leaniel
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Leaniel »

viletim wrote:
It's normal that R81 and R82 measure differently in circuit, because there is some resistance of other components between 5V and GND. You measure 1.7V at the junction between them so they are fine.

I would measure the resistance between pin 3 and pin 4. If you measure 47k then I'd say the op-amp is bad, if you measure nothing then suspect a bad solder joint.
Mmh I measure 47 KOhm between 3 and 4.
That means it's dead or? Lmv321m5 is it?

Like I said it worked after I install the board and the with 1 time it's doesnt send any audio.

The cables that I solder are ok even the signal goes from the soldering pads to the resistor

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Last edited by Leaniel on Thu Sep 29, 2022 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

viletim wrote:As far as I can tell there are two separate problems that some people are having with version 4.

Colour changing bug.
I found that the Super Mario Bros 3 map screen is a good test for this as it continually updates the palette without any user input. If the conditions are just right the palette ram access will fail and palette indexes will either be black or an entirely wrong colour. It seems this can be fixed by placing a small capacitor (47pf seems to work best) between pin 13 (CE#) of the PPU and ground.

PPU sync bug.
The NESRGB will sync to the PPU ok during start up, but will lose sync by itself at some point. It seems to happen more often when an Everdrive cartridge is used. It looks like the images moves left and right by about 1 pixel and there are colour fringes on the edges of graphics. Here's a video of the symptom. I haven't been able to reproduce this one yet, but I suspect some kind of clock buffer circuit will be required to solve it.

elgarlic wrote:
Lopenator wrote:It's a little weird to be because there aren't that many people here with the issue.
Well, if it does indeed take a while for the error to present itself, after powering on, that may partially explain it. Like many, I'm guilty of modding consoles, testing them, and then putting them on the shelf for a long time before the urge strikes to play games for that particular system. :)
I don't really know. I haven't received that many complaints about these two problems, maybe six or seven in total.
I don't know if I'm experiencing the color change bug. The ppu sync bug is exactly what happens to me in your video. Maybe I don't need to add a capacitor to the ppu in my case?

What's a clock buffer circuit?
jkuch77
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by jkuch77 »

viletim wrote:As far as I can tell there are two separate problems that some people are having with version 4.

Colour changing bug.
I found that the Super Mario Bros 3 map screen is a good test for this as it continually updates the palette without any user input. If the conditions are just right the palette ram access will fail and palette indexes will either be black or an entirely wrong colour. It seems this can be fixed by placing a small capacitor (47pf seems to work best) between pin 13 (CE#) of the PPU and ground.

PPU sync bug.
The NESRGB will sync to the PPU ok during start up, but will lose sync by itself at some point. It seems to happen more often when an Everdrive cartridge is used. It looks like the images moves left and right by about 1 pixel and there are colour fringes on the edges of graphics. Here's a video of the symptom. I haven't been able to reproduce this one yet, but I suspect some kind of clock buffer circuit will be required to solve it.
Lopenator wrote:I don't know if I'm experiencing the color change bug. The ppu sync bug is exactly what happens to me in your video. Maybe I don't need to add a capacitor to the ppu in my case?
Same here. The issue in the video is exactly what I was experiencing. I received the 220pF 50V ceramic capacitor (Part#K221J15C0GF5TL2) today that I had ordered from Mouser per Tim's suggestion and soldered it between pins 13 and 20 of the PPU. I have been playing the same games that I saw the issue with before for the past 4 hours or so and the issue seems to be gone now. Again, this is on a NTSC NES Front Loader with the Everdrive N8 Pro in case this helps someone else experiencing this issue with the NESRGB v4.
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

You got yours already? Mines not coming until tuesday. Keep testing it because it takes a while to happen sometimes.
jkuch77
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by jkuch77 »

Lopenator wrote:You got yours already? Mines not coming until tuesday. Keep testing it because it takes a while to happen sometimes.
I ordered it from Mouser and picked FedEx 2nd Day shipping :) It wasn't much more than the standard shipping, like a few dollars more. I'll keep testing and let you know if the issue does re-surface.
jkuch77
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by jkuch77 »

jkuch77 wrote:
Lopenator wrote:You got yours already? Mines not coming until tuesday. Keep testing it because it takes a while to happen sometimes.
I ordered it from Mouser and picked FedEx 2nd Day shipping :) It wasn't much more than the standard shipping, like a few dollars more. I'll keep testing and let you know if the issue does re-surface.
I played for another 4-5 hours yesterday and still no issues since installing the 220pF cap
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

Awesome dude I was actually going to ask you about an update. Excited to get my cap.

I wonder what would happen if we used a capacitor that was too high in farads like .1uf
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

I have an update. My digikey order of new capacitors did not come in yet. I went through my junk drawer and found 2 small ceramic disc capacitors labeled 33 on them. I'm not sure because I don't have a multimeter that can measure capacitance but I only believe them to be 33 pF each. I decided what the hell and installed them both in parallel on pins 13 and ground of the ppu. I have played for about 4 hours and the desync has not happened yet.
jkuch77
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by jkuch77 »

Lopenator wrote:I have an update. My digikey order of new capacitors did not come in yet. I went through my junk drawer and found 2 small ceramic disc capacitors labeled 33 on them. I'm not sure because I don't have a multimeter that can measure capacitance but I only believe them to be 33 pF each. I decided what the hell and installed them both in parallel on pins 13 and ground of the ppu. I have played for about 4 hours and the desync has not happened yet.
Nice! Usually Capacitor codes are 3 digits so if it is 330 it would be 33pF or 331 is 330pF, most likely yours are 33pF then so 66pF total in parallel. Your NES was also an NTSC front loader correct? So, 66pF is working for you, I wonder if I should reduce mine to 100pF which I also had ordered with the 220pF. I wonder if the 220pF will do any kind of damage if it is too high or does this just change the CS# speed and I'm fine leaving it.
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

These capacitors are not 3 digits. They are 2. They both only say 33 on them.

I think I read online if it's only 2 digits than it is most likely telling you the value directly without a multiplier, right? That's why I think they are 33pF each.

I have no idea what effect higher capacitance has vs a lower capacitance in this situation. I was in fact wondering the same thing. I'm going onto 5 hours now and still playing right now. All seems good.

Yes I have a ntsc front loader.
Leaniel
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Leaniel »

The original capacitor list of the nes
https://console5.com/wiki/Nintendo_NES-001


How happy I am that I not have that Problem on a pal system

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Port Zero
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Port Zero »

viletim wrote:
Port Zero wrote:Hi Tim,

I've installed NESRGB v4 to my AV Famicom. It works correctly with crispy pixels now. I really like this. Thank you for your hard work on such great product.

I have an issue on palette switch by the controller. I close J1 and connect 4 wires of clock, latch, data and reset. But I cannot switch palette nor reset in-game.

Yeah, my soldering is not good, but it's tested by multimeter. Would you give me a clue for this issue?
It doesn't work because you soldered to the wrong pins on the controller port. The old diagram I made was very ambiguous. The new one is much more clear.
Thank you for updating. That's much more clear. I soldered like new picture and successfully works now. :)
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

So my order from Digikey came in. It contains a few 47pF and a few 100pF. I have not had the desync issue since installing the 2 random capacitors in parallel I found in my drawer. They are both stamped with "33" so I think they are both 33pF although I cannot confirm it. That would make 66pF. I think I am going to keep the two 33 stamped capacitors on for now until I have a reason to swap them out.
Tyler Red
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Tyler Red »

Hey all, I've been silently following this thread but I want to chime in with what I'm seeing.

I have an original Famicom with the NESRGB v4 installed. I'm experiencing what I suspect is the color timing bug, but it's 100% repeatable; I'm playing the original Final Fantasy on an authentic NES cart via a 72 > 60 pin converter. When I exit any building in a town, most colors are lost. Here's a before and after:
Image
I have 100pf/220pf caps out for delivery today so I will try that fix!

I also have a question regarding the new jumpers: The current specification indicates J8 selects between CSYNC TTL (open) and 75-ohm (closed). However, the new version of the board does not have J8. While it does have J9, I suspect that enables/disables the LPF based on a post by Tim:
viletim wrote:The filter in the THS7374 is disabled by default but you can enable it by closing solder jumper J9 if you like.
Does anyone know what the CSYNC output is on the v4? And is it configurable?
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

I can't click your image.

Tim do you think we can damage something if we use too high a pF?
Last edited by Lopenator on Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Leaniel
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Leaniel »

viletim wrote:
Leaniel wrote:So I get from the chip
1 = 1,7V
2 = 0V
3 = 1,0V
4 = 4,99V
5 = 4,99V


i measure the Resistor like on the Schematics and have a difference.
R81 = 10,6 KOhm
R82 = 11,3 KOhm
R83 = 20 KOhm

Are these Correct?
I would say the Chip is dead or?

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It's normal that R81 and R82 measure differently in circuit, because there is some resistance of other components between 5V and GND. You measure 1.7V at the junction between them so they are fine.

I would measure the resistance between pin 3 and pin 4. If you measure 47k then I'd say the op-amp is bad, if you measure nothing then suspect a bad solder joint.
Is the 5pin Chip the Lmv321m5?

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