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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:41 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1017
Location: Toronto, Canada
sounds like some kind of power issue.

I would remove the extra regular. not needed. short JP3 to use the 7805 on the NES. That's what you do with top loader anyways!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:24 pm 


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Posts: 14
Hi,
I installed the NESRGB mod in my PAL frontloader. Also did the extra audio channel mod ( solder a 47k resistor between pins 3 and 9 on the expansion port). Also, I wired the the audio out of the NESRGB to both left and right pins of the SNES multi out I'm using for RGB out.

The thing is that NESRGB doesn't seem to output the expanded audio but if I use sound of the regular AV audio out, expansion audio is present.

Any help on how to wire expansion audio to the NESRGB? Or it'll be better to route regular audio from the mono out to the SNES multi out I'm using?

Thanks for your help


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:42 pm 


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Joined: 20 Jul 2017
Posts: 221
The expansion audio needs to be fed into NESRGB so it can be mixed into the output.

Tim posted a circuit diagram here:

viewtopic.php?p=1115605#p1115605


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:32 am 



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 6
leonk wrote:
sounds like some kind of power issue.

I would remove the extra regular. not needed. short JP3 to use the 7805 on the NES. That's what you do with top loader anyways!


Thanks, I tried this and the NES stays powered up longer but then eventually starts to do the same thing again. I've tried 2 known good 7805's and I still have this same issue.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:20 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1017
Location: Toronto, Canada
did you check the caps inside the RF block? There's a particular brand where the 10uF caps ALWAYS leak.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:09 pm 


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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 38
viletim wrote:
I've investigated the problem of the unstable NESRGB voltage regulator. I tested the regulators on some recent boards and compared them with the regulators on some old (faulty) boards. I came to the conclusion that the voltage regulators fitted to recent boards are fakes. When asked, the supplier admitted she was selling fake parts.

All NESRGB boards sold this year are affected.

I think most are working OK (otherwise I'd have heard about this problem much sooner), but some are oscillating or performing poorly. The most likely reason for this is the type and value of the output capacitor on the NESRGB board is suited to the genuine part, not the fake part. The addition of a capacitor on the 3.3V rail should be enough to solve stability problems.

More info here. http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_fault/


It turns out I too have this problem... I got my NESRGB last year but mostly played through Castlevania which had dark black backgrounds. Booted up vs. SMB the other day and sure enough.

Unfortunately, I'm nowhere near able enough to add a capacitor on my own or replace the voltage regular... my hands have always been too shaky for soldering. Is there a solution for us less-skilled people? Would appreciate any help or advisement. Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:59 pm 



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 6
leonk wrote:
did you check the caps inside the RF block? There's a particular brand where the 10uF caps ALWAYS leak.


Do you mean the other caps in the power/AV circuit? I replaced the big 2200uf and the smaller 100 and 10uF caps in there as well. I also reapplied thermal paste to the 7805 to ensure good heat transfer to the heat sink.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:54 pm 



Joined: 21 Mar 2018
Posts: 3
Hello,

I recently installed my first NESRGB board. I would say I have been halfway succesfull. I have a weird issue I am hoping someone will understand.

First, I decided to use a multiout connector from a broken SNES I had. Second I am using a csync cable with a 330ohm resistor on the sync line.

My issue is that I cannot seem to get sync out of any source other than PPUV and this includes s-video/luma. When I first hooked up the NESRGB I used sync from CS# to pin 3 of the multiout. This gives me a rolling image like something is wrong with sync. I can see a colorful image of the game but the screen is rolling (audio works). So I disconnect CS# and I tried connecting sync from Y/luma to pin 3. Again I got the same thing...a rolling image. So next I tried connecting sync from V to pin 3 and got the exact same rolling image. Finally, I connected PPUV to pin 3 and viola...RGB works. However, I still cannot get S-video to work. If I wire S-video up or straight composite using pad V I get the rolling image issue. If I don't use the NESRGB board at all (pallete switch off position) and hook the system up using the original av output it works fine.

I think PPUV is just the video signal passing through the NESRGB off the PPU isn't it? It seems like my nesrgb board is having issues pushing any sort of sync unless I use the original video from PPUV. I have triple checked the wiring diagram and seem to have everything wired properly. I have J5 shorted for ntsc and have tried J8 open and shorted (it should be open for csync cables that are using a 330ohm resistor from what I have read).

If anyone has any ideas I am all ears. I guess I am happy with the image quality of the RGB using PPUV as the sync but that is not the way I would have preferred to have my system set up as I also wanted S-video hooked up. My hdretrovision component cables also don't work (they give a rolling image like it's a sync issue)

Thanks for your help


Last edited by shiftednes on Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:02 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:08 pm 



Joined: 26 Feb 2018
Posts: 15
Hi.

Yesterday I finished the installation of the NESRGB board on my NES and it is working fine. I've used a scavenged SNES multiout port for the output.
As said, RGB is working using a SNES SCART cable. Also tried a SNES Composite cable and a SNES S-Video cable. All is working.

But I have 2 things that I have to fiddle a little bit more:

- I tried a HD Retrovision Component cable I already have for my SNES. It did not worked. Black screen, no signal. Audio works fine.
- Original composite output gives me a weird image. It's all white and grey, with no other colors. I've uploaded a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ignUZZ7YCyM


Here is a pic of the work I've done on the NESRGB board:

Image



Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:05 am 



Joined: 21 Mar 2018
Posts: 3
Mendion wrote:
Hi.

Yesterday I finished the installation of the NESRGB board on my NES and it is working fine. I've used a scavenged SNES multiout port for the output.
As said, RGB is working using a SNES SCART cable. Also tried a SNES Composite cable and a SNES S-Video cable. All is working.

But I have 2 things that I have to fiddle a little bit more:

- I tried a HD Retrovision Component cable I already have for my SNES. It did not worked. Black screen, no signal. Audio works fine.
- Original composite output gives me a weird image. It's all white and grey, with no other colors. I've uploaded a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ignUZZ7YCyM


Here is a pic of the work I've done on the NESRGB board:

Image



Thanks


I think the original composite output is white like that because you have a palette selected. If you wired a switch and chose the "off" palette option or just removed that short you created in the palette selection between ground and pad 3 your original composite would work.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:07 am 



Joined: 13 Mar 2011
Posts: 1017
Location: Toronto, Canada
ahiftednes: couple of suggestions:

- toss out tim's 7805 board. don't use it
- jump jp3 to get 5V from on board
- you didn't do audio!
- you cut off the right side. want to confirm you did the rest correctly


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:33 am 



Joined: 26 Feb 2018
Posts: 15
leonk wrote:
ahiftednes: couple of suggestions:

- toss out tim's 7805 board. don't use it
- jump jp3 to get 5V from on board
- you didn't do audio!
- you cut off the right side. want to confirm you did the rest correctly


- I'm getting the mono audio from another place. Don't want stereo o something like that.
- I don't understand why a 7805 is supplied and nearly all the people say to not use it. On the installation guide on Tim's site it says that is needed for Front Loader NES
- If I remove the 7805, from where do I have to take the 5V?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:09 am 


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Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Posts: 206
Location: United States
Does running the audio through the nesrgb make expansion audio on av famicom the correct levels?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:14 am 


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ChuChu Flamingo wrote:
Does running the audio through the nesrgb make expansion audio on av famicom the correct levels?


You can tweak it using resistors, but you have to connect the cartridge connector pins to the NESRGB. This post contains a circuit diagram for the AV Famicom. You'll note that the Everdrive outputs audio at a different level from a real cartridge, so Tim provides a circuit that allows you to switch between the two. If you only plan to use one or the other, you can omit the switch and just wire it up for that. If you just wire the CPU pins for audio, there will be no expansion audio at all on the NESRGB output.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:58 am 



Joined: 21 Mar 2018
Posts: 3
I just wanted to give an update on my sync issue. It turns out a very tiny fleck of solder had shorted one of those really tiny surface components near PPU pin 15 or 16. Once I cleaned that up my sync issues disappeared and everything is working fine.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:44 am 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 776
Location: Australia
Kez wrote:
ChuChu Flamingo wrote:
Does running the audio through the nesrgb make expansion audio on av famicom the correct levels?


You can tweak it using resistors, but you have to connect the cartridge connector pins to the NESRGB. This post contains a circuit diagram for the AV Famicom. You'll note that the Everdrive outputs audio at a different level from a real cartridge, so Tim provides a circuit that allows you to switch between the two. If you only plan to use one or the other, you can omit the switch and just wire it up for that. If you just wire the CPU pins for audio, there will be no expansion audio at all on the NESRGB output.



This post prompted me to get off my butt and wire up the expansion audio for my Famicom 101 and everdrive combo.

The resistor value Tim suggests is 49k but i felt that was still too loud. Somewhere between 60 and 70k sounds much nicer to me.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:01 pm 



Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 70
Syntax wrote:
Kez wrote:
ChuChu Flamingo wrote:
Does running the audio through the nesrgb make expansion audio on av famicom the correct levels?


You can tweak it using resistors, but you have to connect the cartridge connector pins to the NESRGB. This post contains a circuit diagram for the AV Famicom. You'll note that the Everdrive outputs audio at a different level from a real cartridge, so Tim provides a circuit that allows you to switch between the two. If you only plan to use one or the other, you can omit the switch and just wire it up for that. If you just wire the CPU pins for audio, there will be no expansion audio at all on the NESRGB output.



This post prompted me to get off my butt and wire up the expansion audio for my Famicom 101 and everdrive combo.

The resistor value Tim suggests is 49k but i felt that was still too loud. Somewhere between 60 and 70k sounds much nicer to me.

Thanks.


I put a potentiometer in my AV Famicom so I could tweak the sound level of the expansion audio to whatever I want. One of these days I’m going to dial it so that the waveform of the output matches the stock output of an OG Famicom. Then I could measure the resistance of the potentiometer and find out the exact value, and swap in a resistor of that value to lock it in.

I really don’t think any documentation on the net has the resistor value perfect. I’d sure love to let the community know, because it was a real struggle to find information on how to wire expansion audio to NESRGB on AV Fami.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:59 pm 


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Location: Australia
It was just by ear on crappy tv speakers. I should try it again today via my P.A. but the Kid Icarus theme is sending me crazy...

I used 68k but probs a touch too much.

I wouldn't invest too much it trying to match the original waveform. I'd say Tim would of match it on paper.
This is purely speculation but after finding that Nintendo got 2 resistors mixed up in the twin fami it makes me feel like the mix level was probably just guessed and we can pick a nicer mix by ear. (For the 6 odd games I'd play with expansion audio)

Something that would clean the sound up alot would be a hf eq to soften those ear piercing midi highs.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:14 am 



Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 70
Syntax wrote:
It was just by ear on crappy tv speakers. I should try it again today via my P.A. but the Kid Icarus theme is sending me crazy...

I used 68k but probs a touch too much.

I wouldn't invest too much it trying to match the original waveform. I'd say Tim would of match it on paper.
This is purely speculation but after finding that Nintendo got 2 resistors mixed up in the twin fami it makes me feel like the mix level was probably just guessed and we can pick a nicer mix by ear. (For the 6 odd games I'd play with expansion audio)

Something that would clean the sound up alot would be a hf eq to soften those ear piercing midi highs.


Definitely the fact that OG Famicom and AV Famicom mix the audio at different levels points to the fact that it’s not a science. But I am chasing the OG Famicom mix because that’s what the bulk of the expansion audio games would have been made for.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:56 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1129
ChuChu Flamingo wrote:
Does running the audio through the nesrgb make expansion audio on av famicom the correct levels?

I wasn't aware the AV Famicom had incorrect audio levels.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:25 am 


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Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 38
Ashura wrote:

It turns out I too have this problem... I got my NESRGB last year but mostly played through Castlevania which had dark black backgrounds. Booted up vs. SMB the other day and sure enough.

Unfortunately, I'm nowhere near able enough to add a capacitor on my own or replace the voltage regular... my hands have always been too shaky for soldering. Is there a solution for us less-skilled people? Would appreciate any help or advisement. Thank you!


Am I completely SOL on this? A shove in the right direction of whom I might be able to pay to do the fix would be lovely.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:49 am 


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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 1989
Location: DFW area, Texas
Ashura wrote:

Am I completely SOL on this? A shove in the right direction of whom I might be able to pay to do the fix would be lovely.


I could easily do this for you if you live in the USA. PM me if you do.
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SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:37 am 



Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden
Hi!

I've got an NESRGB modded Famicom AV that I can't get CSYNC to work with. I didn't do the mod myself, and it worked great with my old RGB Sync on Composite video cable that I had, but since I saw some grid pattern in solid colors for both the Famicom and my Super Famicom, I wanted to upgrade to a decent CSYNC RGB cable and ordered the Packapunch one from Retrogamingcables.co.uk. It is supposedly wired up for TTL-Passthrough.

This cable works great on the SFC (1CHIP model if that makes any difference), but plugging it into the Famicom AV I only get audio, no video. I tried jumping J8 on the NESRGB board figuring maybe the TTL setting was supposed to be opposite what I had, but that doesn't seem to make any difference.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e0g0m1dhugn82yz/IMG_20180329_112355.jpg?dl=0

Would love it if you guys have any ideas what could be the issue.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:25 am 


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Location: Australia
The person who installed the mod did not wire CS# to the csync pin on the multi AV out is seems.

Quick fix.

Looks like your board is a revision with no fake parts either, added bonus!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:13 am 



Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden
Syntax wrote:
The person who installed the mod did not wire CS# to the csync pin on the multi AV out is seems.

Quick fix.

Looks like your board is a revision with no fake parts either, added bonus!


Awesome! I should have spotted that. Pulled a wire to the AV CSYNC pin and now it works and looks amazing.Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:19 am 



Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden
Jeez, looks like I managed to introduce a new problem instead now. When I'm using the Famicom Disk System attachement I get a loud buzzing sound over the speaker and the image is kind of shaking a bit too when running that. I figured maybe I shorted something when I put the CSYNC line in but it looks clean, and even undoing it now I get the same problem. Doesn't seem like it could be a separate issue with the FDS drive unit either since that should be basically just a data interface and the buzzing noise comes on even before I load any disks. Using regular Famicom carts the sound is crystal clear.

Any thoughts on what it could be?

I should mention that the FDS drive worked fine when I last used it a few weeks ago, without any buzz or image flicker.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:32 am 


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Perhaps you jostled the expansion connector while you were in there? Check all the joints on the underside, maybe reflow the pins.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:56 am 



Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Posts: 20
Location: Sweden
Kez wrote:
Perhaps you jostled the expansion connector while you were in there? Check all the joints on the underside, maybe reflow the pins.


They all look fine, but I decided to clean the pins of the RAM cartridge that goes into the main FC unit and it looks like the far leftmost pin is a bit bent. I wedged it a bit with a screwdriver and it seems to take out some of the buzz, but it's still there and the flicker remains, so I'll order a "new" one and see if that will sort it out.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:14 pm 


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Posts: 1989
Location: DFW area, Texas
I have 4 official legit regulators for the NESRGB I can install for anyone in the mainland USA that needs this fix done. I'm only charging $20 as long as you pay for shipping costs. PM me if interested.
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NES NTSC Palettes: http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

SNES Serial DB: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HYLy_TTDop_FzuX6qnxuQI43upg4raXfno582taO744/pubhtml


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:32 pm 


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Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 215
Location: USA
viletim wrote:
Try this circuit for expansion audio.

Image


For the NES you must put the switch in the mute position when normal (no extra audio) games are on otherwise you will get noise. For the Famicom AV you need to isolate the cartridge pins 45 and 46 before connecting wires. If you only play cartridges or Everdrive you can leave out the switch. I don't know if the audio level is correct for the RetroUSB Powerpak.


Is this currently the best way to hook up expansion audio on a front loader? I haven't had an NES with RGB since 2015 and I remember wiring it differently back then and it had a ton of buzzing when using an everdrive. I just received another NESRGB in the mail and now I'm waiting on a few parts to come in before I install it.


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