NESRGB board available now

[copy]

copy: what about composite video?

the diag lines is noise in the video signal. As I said, power noise. Maybe the Luma (Y) wire is too close to a power source.

Whatever the problem is, given that you're not going to open the console, diagnose it using test equiptment, there's little we can do to help you


What you are asking for is the equivalent of a car owner trying to figure out why their engine has a knocking noise by talking to people on the internet rather than just talk to the car mechanic that can actually look at the motor and notice the actual root cause of your problem.

The composite video output looks fine, no diagonal lines. I'll see if I can move the luma wire around or something.

I never said I wouldn't open the console. In fact, I already have to install the Blinking Light Win and flash FBX's custom palette firmware on the NESRGB. I don't have test equipment, but am planning to buy at least a multimeter sometime soon.

I have sent a message to Todd about it and will follow up with him. I just posted it here because I thought people might be interested and have some ideas.

Since the RGB noise is the biggest priority, and since it only occurs on one palette setting (currently Unsaturated-V5), I will probably install a different version of FBX's firmware which has his YUV-V3 palette in place of FCEUX. That way I can at least use YUV-V3 on a noise-free switch setting. That will probably be a good enough solution for me.

[Voultar]

copy: what about composite video?

the diag lines is noise in the video signal. As I said, power noise. Maybe the Luma (Y) wire is too close to a power source.

Whatever the problem is, given that you're not going to open the console, diagnose it using test equiptment, there's little we can do to help you


What you are asking for is the equivalent of a car owner trying to figure out why their engine has a knocking noise by talking to people on the internet rather than just talk to the car mechanic that can actually look at the motor and notice the actual root cause of your problem.

The diagonal lines (45 degree clock bars) he's seeing in S-video is the result of AC coupling and bleeding in the chroma output.

[famicomboy]

Good tips. Thanks for the info, CkRtech. I've been shopping around for people to hire to salvage this famicom, but it seems every time I mention it's a failed NES RGB mod, they just don't have the time to do it. I think I may just have to wait a while on a waiting list.

However, I did successfully do my N64 RGB mod and it looks great, which may have not been the case if I didn't attempt this one before that.

[mvsfan]

sometimes when a nesrgb mod fails the nesrgb board, the ppu or cpu or ram can also get burned out. thats one of the problems, a lot can happen, and the only solution is to take them from another system. it can take a while to track down whats wrong with the failed system.

most of the time, the parts from the Nes Front loader will work though.

many times, its better to just start over while reusing the old nesrgb, especially if its a frontloader.

thats why people are reluctant.

[djdavedoc]

I have severed the trace between the Transistor and where it would go to the PPU but I still get the lines. Interestingly if I plug the Famicom directly to my TV I get Jailbars rather than just the odd lines I showed in the picture previously. Any ideas for removing Jailbars?

[copy]

The diagonal lines (45 degree clock bars) he's seeing in S-video is the result of AC coupling and bleeding in the chroma output.

What solution could I try to eliminate this?

[Edward_Tz]

Some late night modding. Caps and voltage reg replaced. Updated the firmware too.




Also for those on Win10. Win10 doesn't like the chinaman usb blasters. At least the one I had.

[yxkalle]

Some late night modding.

Looks good! What kind of voltage regulator did you use?
Happy gaming.

[Edward_Tz]

Some late night modding.

Looks good! What kind of voltage regulator did you use?
Happy gaming.

It's a Murata regulator.
Part Number is OKI-78SR-5/1.5-W36-C


One issue I'm running into is some distortion in Salamander at the top of the screen. Only in the vertical scrolling sections though. That normal for the NESRGB?

[Edward_Tz]

Some late night modding.

Looks good! What kind of voltage regulator did you use?
Happy gaming.

It's a Murata regulator.
Part Number is OKI-78SR-5/1.5-W36-C


One issue I'm running into is some distortion in Salamander at the top of the screen. Only in the vertical scrolling sections though. That normal for the NESRGB?

*edit Seems to be an XRGB3 issue. If I increase the AFC to 6 it's nearly gone. Any higher and I lose picture.

[FBX]

One issue I'm running into is some distortion in Salamander at the top of the screen. Only in the vertical scrolling sections though. That normal for the NESRGB?

*edit Seems to be an XRGB3 issue. If I increase the AFC to 6 it's nearly gone. Any higher and I lose picture.

Is it the top couple of lines looking pulled slightly left? I noticed this years ago on NES decks with CRTs, but then saw the same thing with NESRGB into Framemeister.

[leonk]

Some late night modding.

Looks good! What kind of voltage regulator did you use?
Happy gaming.

It's a Murata regulator.
Part Number is OKI-78SR-5/1.5-W36-C


One issue I'm running into is some distortion in Salamander at the top of the screen. Only in the vertical scrolling sections though. That normal for the NESRGB?

I strongly suggest you undo this mod. I've already reported to Tim that this particular switching voltage regulator introduces noise with the NESRGB. Tim suggested some caps I can add to reduce it (as per Murata's docs) but it did not resolve the issue. You will see diagonal lines on a CRT.

[RGB32E]

One issue I'm running into is some distortion in Salamander at the top of the screen. Only in the vertical scrolling sections though. That normal for the NESRGB?

*edit Seems to be an XRGB3 issue. If I increase the AFC to 6 it's nearly gone. Any higher and I lose picture.

Yes, a NESRGB+XRGB-3 combo will show curling at the top of the output image that is almost fully correctable using AFC level. The XRGB-mini generally handles this perfectly without having to make adjustments.

[Edward_Tz]

Yes, a NESRGB+XRGB-3 combo will show curling at the top of the output image that is almost fully correctable using AFC level. The XRGB-mini generally handles this perfectly without having to make adjustments.

Is it the top couple of lines looking pulled slightly left? I noticed this years ago on NES decks with CRTs, but then saw the same thing with NESRGB into Framemeister.

Yes. Just like that. Good to know.

I strongly suggest you undo this mod. I've already reported to Tim that this particular switching voltage regulator introduces noise with the NESRGB. Tim suggested some caps I can add to reduce it (as per Murata's docs) but it did not resolve the issue. You will see diagonal lines on a CRT.

Any game I can check out that this happens in particular? I haven't seen any that are noticeable with my XRGB3. Seems odd it wouldn't pick that up. Thing is usually pretty susceptible to that stuff.

The spec sheet on that regulator seems pretty good. I guess it's the switching frequency of the regulator itself that you think is causing issue? Don't think you can really filter that.

[ApolloBoy]

I strongly suggest you undo this mod. I've already reported to Tim that this particular switching voltage regulator introduces noise with the NESRGB. Tim suggested some caps I can add to reduce it (as per Murata's docs) but it did not resolve the issue. You will see diagonal lines on a CRT.

Those cheap switching regulators will definitely add interference, but I found that the pricier 78SR-5/2C didn't seem to produce any kind of noise. They're about $13 though and considering the AV Famicom consumes less than 1 amp even with an NESRGB and Everdrive, it's a rather pointless exercise TBH.

The spec sheet on that regulator seems pretty good. I guess it's the switching frequency of the regulator itself that you think is causing issue? Don't think you can really filter that.

Yes, that's exactly what causes the interference. I've experimented with switching regulators on a few other consoles and wound up switching back to the stock 7805 because of the video noise that they add.

[leonk]

As per specs from Mouser:

OKI-78SR (500khz freq) - "Recommended Output Filtering: .. the user may install more external output capacitance to reduce the ripple even further or for improved dynamic response.
Again, use low-ESR ceramic or polymer capacitors. Initial values of 10 to 47 μF may be tried, either single or multiple capacitors in parallel. Mount these close to the converter. Measure the output ripple under your load conditions."

MPM-78SR (200khz freq) - "As shown in the accompanying noise and ripple graphs, 78SR Series regulators exhibit excellent low noise performance with no additional I/O filter components."

[copy]

The diagonal lines (45 degree clock bars) he's seeing in S-video is the result of AC coupling and bleeding in the chroma output.

What solution could I try to eliminate this?

Anyone? I would be eternally grateful for any suggestions for how to remove this AC coupling/chroma bleeding.


(Incidentally, I tried removing the Q1 composite amp transistor, and it had no effect on my two video issues. Though I'm glad to have taken it out anyway to hopefully avoid that speckling problem it can create with the EverDrive, which I plan on using.)

[Edward_Tz]

As per specs from Mouser:

OKI-78SR (500khz freq) - "Recommended Output Filtering: .. the user may install more external output capacitance to reduce the ripple even further or for improved dynamic response.
Again, use low-ESR ceramic or polymer capacitors. Initial values of 10 to 47 μF may be tried, either single or multiple capacitors in parallel. Mount these close to the converter. Measure the output ripple under your load conditions."

MPM-78SR (200khz freq) - "As shown in the accompanying noise and ripple graphs, 78SR Series regulators exhibit excellent low noise performance with no additional I/O filter components."

It has less noise than a normal 7805. A lot less. It's the switching frequency that seems to be an issue.

I see what you were talking about with the diagonal lines. Are they suppose to be moving? I noticed extremely faint diagonal lines moving from left to right on the screen. Only on solid colors. I would had probably never noticed them if you hadn't mentioned something.

Replaced the OKI-78SR and reinstalled the original 7805 along with some thermal paste. And the diagonal lines went away... Well another thing learned today. At least the OKI-78SR wasn't pricey.

[Einzelherz]

Can anyone confirm this for me:

I was playing MegaMan 2 on my NESRGB front loader and on Dr Wily's first stage in the opening area I was getting a trailing effect on the horizontal lines whenever sprites would move up and down. This was usually MegaMan himself but it was also the eggbird's little birds. It was most prevalent on RGB, but I could also see it over S-Video. I tried my early revision stock front loader with its factory composite and I could just barely see the same thing, but only to the left of the sprites.

It was easy to see on my PVMs but I couldn't see it with S-Video on my Philips consumer set.

Can anyone else check this out? I think maybe it has to do with how dark of a color those scanlines are producing being interfered with by brighter colored sprites. This is the only level I could get to do it.

In case you don't know the password to get there it's:
A5
B2,4
C1,3,5
D4,5
E2

Edit: it happens on the wii, too, in FCE Ultra GX.

[Ripthorn]

Anyone here tried to remove the PPU with this tool?
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Freeship ... 4619713dac

Seems like a cheepo hakko 808 replacement.

[mvsfan]

I thought about buying one of those because the price was right, but i read some reviews on them that didnt seem so good, so i ended up getting a Hakko FR-300. i bought it slightly used on ebay for $250.

[Edward_Tz]

Anyone here tried to remove the PPU with this tool?
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Freeship ... 4619713dac

Seems like a cheepo hakko 808 replacement.

For $125 I'd just stick to a solder sucker.

The Hakko FR300 goes on sale for like $220-$260. That was the range I bought mine at anyway.

[Guspaz]

I tried a solder sucker for my NESRGB, the spring-loaded kind. It was one of the most common ones, the blue and silver unit. It was nearly useless, as it did not appear to suck up much if any solder, it was slightly too big to fit around one pin without hitting the adjacent ones, and generally didn't do anything. I had to resort to desolder braid for the entire process.

The one time that it was useful was in clearing solder out of the ground plane vias after the PPU was removed. In that case, I was able to put the solder sucker on one side, heat the via from the other side, and activate the solder sucker while the iron was still in contact. That worked fine.

It's possible that better results could be had with a different solder sucker, but this model in particular was not useful:

[kamiboy]

I've removed many a NES PPU using a simple spring loaded solder sucker. A super cheapo one I got from China.

[Guspaz]

Perhaps tip size is critical, then. The one I showed can't get a good seal because the adjacent pins will always keep it away from the PCB.

[Edward_Tz]

Perhaps tip size is critical, then. The one I showed can't get a good seal because the adjacent pins will always keep it away from the PCB.

Using a solder sucker is just a pain anyway. Cutting the tip to be thinner can help. It's not really a good alternative to a desoldering gun but it can be an alternative if it's all you got.

[CkRtech]

I used one of the old Radio Shack red bulb solder suckers for the first NESRGB I did, and it was quite usable. I still added fresh solder to all of the pins first a soldering iron. Also note that those solder suckers take longer to heat up than you think. They are pretty cheap.

Everything I did after that was with an FR-300, though.

Once you get beyond doing one, it sure saves time to have a good tool for the operation.

[Guspaz]

I removed the CPU and PPU from a broken NES motherboard with little difficulty with a cheap desoldering iron that had a built-in solder sucker. But when I started on the PPU on my good NES motherboard, the thing stopped working. Wouldn't properly melt the solder anymore. I suppose the cheap tip was only good for desoldering 80 joints or so, although I guess I shouldn't have expected much for the price. The unheated sucker was nearly useless, as I mentioned, so I did the whole PPU with nothing but desolder braid. It took quite a while, as you can imagine.

I'm sure that an 808 or an FR-300 would make NESRGB installs a snap. Would that they were more affordable.

[Einzelherz]

Two 25w irons and a spring vacuum pump here. I only needed the second iron for the ~3 pins that touched the huge copper plate.

[Ripthorn]

The difficulty I have to remove the PPU are the solder residues. The pins always get stuck