NESRGB board available now

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gatsu25
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by gatsu25 »

ms06fz wrote:Got some photos of your install we could look at? Might be able to spot something there...
No problem. I realize my soldering could be better, but all the points checked out fine on my multimeter.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/175 ... AG0447.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/175 ... AG0446.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/175 ... AG0448.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/175 ... AG0444.jpg
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Monstermug
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Monstermug »

gatsu25 wrote:
ms06fz wrote:Got some photos of your install we could look at? Might be able to spot something there...
No problem. I realize my soldering could be better, but all the points checked out fine on my multimeter.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/175 ... AG0447.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/175 ... AG0446.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/175 ... AG0448.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/175 ... AG0444.jpg

I think your soldering iron isn't hot enough and perhaps switch to 60/40 leaded solder if your not using it already. :|
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gatsu25
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by gatsu25 »

Monstermug wrote:I think your soldering iron isn't hot enough and perhaps switch to 60/40 leaded solder if your not using it already. :|
Would that make all the difference in this working or not? Like I said, everything checked out fine for continuity on the multimeter. I want to make sure of this before I have to desolder and resolder so many points.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

gatsu25 wrote:Would that make all the difference in this working or not? Like I said, everything checked out fine for continuity on the multimeter. I want to make sure of this before I have to desolder and resolder so many points.
It might, that's some pretty atrocious soldering IMO.
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gatsu25
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by gatsu25 »

Can someone recommend to me what wattage of iron is best for the job? Practice makes perfect right?
ms06fz
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ms06fz »

gatsu25 wrote:Can someone recommend to me what wattage of iron is best for the job? Practice makes perfect right?
I don't really know the right wattage or anything... But one of the things you want to see when soldering is good flow:

Bad flow is basically when the solder is hot, but the metal you're soldering to isn't hot - so the hot solder comes in contact with it and freezes. The solder kind of bulges around the metal instead of bonding to it (known as a "cold solder joint")

When everything is properly heated, the solder should flow freely over the metal.

Generally, if the surface of the solder is concave, it's probably flowed well. Your solder joints kind of have a lot of solder on them - which may indicate a cold joint or may just indicate that you used a lot of solder. Fat solder blobs can also make it hard to spot places where you may have bridged adjacent pads. So it might be worth using some desoldering braid, just to reduce the amount of solder on the joints and make sure the joints are good. (Getting electrical continuity is good, but these connections need to carry high-speed digital data... So the demands are a bit higher)

I can't say that I spotted anything wrong with your install, but as I said it may be worth taking some solder off just to check the connections and reduce the chance of a short between adjacent pads.

You might also want to check and see if you get a composite signal from the PPU - that signal will be grayscale if the NESRGB is active, but it'll still produce a picture and indicate that the PPU is doing its thing. I'm guessing it's probably not - otherwise you'd probably have gotten audio from your game or some other sign that the machine was operating...
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gatsu25
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by gatsu25 »

ms06fz wrote: You might also want to check and see if you get a composite signal from the PPU - that signal will be grayscale if the NESRGB is active, but it'll still produce a picture and indicate that the PPU is doing its thing. I'm guessing it's probably not - otherwise you'd probably have gotten audio from your game or some other sign that the machine was operating...
Thanks a lot for the advice. It makes sense.

When I connect the composite signal without using the nesrgb I don't need to wire anything extra, correct? As for the pallet switch, can I still keep it bridged between the contacts I have already done (Ground and 3)? As for audio, I don't need to do anything to keep mono audio correct? Thanks again.
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gatsu25
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by gatsu25 »

Alright, I took apart as much as I could with a desoldering tool. I fixed my soldering as much as possible. Checked all continuity to make sure it was still good and there were no shorts. Here is the result of that. It's not the best, but it's a big improvement.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/175 ... AG0450.jpg


I went ahead and did S-video again and this is the result. I got a picture at least! Well, it's all scrambled though like the a cartridge that isn't plugged in correctly... Same thing with both cartridges and disks.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/175 ... AG0455.jpg Famicom Disk splash screen


Any ideas on what can be done to make the picture normal? Is this problem easy to pinpoint? Is it perhaps a bad PPU or does it have to do with the soldering?
Zets13
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Zets13 »

The picture can do weird things if the PPU isn't making good contact. I'd make sure the PPU is well seated in the socket, and if it is, double check all the soldering between the PPU socket all the way to the console PCB.
ms06fz
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ms06fz »

Because of the nature of the recognizable-yet-garbled screen, I think you're getting (specifically) one of two problems:
  • Bad connection on the data lines from the CPU to the PPU (resulting in the CPU effectively telling the PPU to display the wrong character)
  • Bad connection on the address lines from the PPU to the ROM which holds the character table (resulting in the PPU pulling the incorrect character from ROM for display)
The latter may be less likely, since those address lines are also used as data lines for the PPU data bus: so if there were an issue there I think you'd see incorrect pixels in the characters (as vertical lines down the screen) rather than just incorrect characters.

You are seeing something more or less recognizable as the FDS splash screen, and the individual characters are legible but wrong (in particular the text "please set disk card" is present but as "pneeue uev fmum eevf" - characters are close to the correct value but off by a few indices, meaning the PPU is pulling the wrong character data.

If we assume A is 0,

P (01111) - P
L (01011) - N (01101)
E (00100) - E
A (00000) - E (00100)
S (10010) - U (10100)
E (00100) - E

It seems like bit 2 is always set and bit 1 is usually clear, while bits 0, 3, and 4 are apparently OK... anyway, sorry, guess you gotta check your connections again, which probably means removing the adapter board from the Famicom so you can check the connections hidden under the NESRGB... But I think the problem is probably around pins 2-6 (the low-bits of the CPU->PPU data lines) or 34-38 (the low-bits of the PPU data bus address/data lines)
mufunyo
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by mufunyo »

Can anyone tell me what this means?

Image

Image

I unseated and reseated the PPU in its socket and visually checked the solder points on the adapter board. The console is an AV Famicom.
eightbitminiboss
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by eightbitminiboss »

mufunyo wrote:Can anyone tell me what this means?

Image

Image

I unseated and reseated the PPU in its socket and visually checked the solder points on the adapter board. The console is an AV Famicom.
What FW version are you on?
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antron
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by antron »

mufunyo, if this is in RGB the colors may be swapped. How does composite look?
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

antron wrote:mufunyo, if this is in RGB the colors may be swapped.
That doesn't seem like the issue at all considering Mario and the castle are in the correct colors.
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by mufunyo »

eightbitminiboss wrote:What FW version are you on?
1.7.
antron wrote:mufunyo, if this is in RGB the colors may be swapped. How does composite look?
The SMB3 overworld background should be beige, not black, and the border on the Tetris title screen should be grey, not blue. This isn't a simple RGB swap, some screens have the right colours, some the wrong colours, and some are completely grey with just a green accent.
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

gatsu25,

This looks like graphics (CHR) bus corruption. It's usually caused by a bad connection to PPU pins 23-39. Use a multimeter with a continuity check to test that each of these pins makes a connection to the motherboard. Also check that between adjacent pins to test for shorts.

mufunyo,

I think your NESRGB board is faulty. Send me an email.
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

leonk wrote:Tim (hope you read this) what are the chances of a famicom solution in the next 12 months? I think there's a lot of people waiting to see what would happen with this last system.
12 months? I'm not that slow... The design for this is finished, actually. I will produce the Famicom P/A board and the NESRGB component video board this month.
ms06fz
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ms06fz »

mufunyo wrote:Can anyone tell me what this means?
I think it could mean that the NESRGB isn't receiving the PPU's composite signal, or is failing somehow to set the PPU's palette. Check the PPU video output. It should be a two-color grayscale picture.
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Battlesmurf
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Battlesmurf »

I have been checking out some things on my NESRGB. I bought it from another member here, but from the get-go it has had a buzzing from the audio side of things. I've tried different AC adapters, cartridges (powerpak, regulars). I just disconnected point O on the solder pad, yet there's still buzzing in the speakers.

It's a front loader, NESRGB 1.7, ran through RGB cables purchased from the eBay seller, ran to a Mini framemeister.

Thanks a bunch in advance for any pointers- I'm not sure what else I can check, so help would be appreciated.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

Are you sure your cables are properly shielded and fully grounded?
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by leonk »

viletim wrote:
leonk wrote:Tim (hope you read this) what are the chances of a famicom solution in the next 12 months? I think there's a lot of people waiting to see what would happen with this last system.
12 months? I'm not that slow... The design for this is finished, actually. I will produce the Famicom P/A board and the NESRGB component video board this month.
Omg! Omg! Omg! I'll finally be able to hook up my famicom system and restored FDS to my PVM. Please let us know when it's posted for sale.
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Battlesmurf
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Battlesmurf »

ApolloBoy wrote:Are you sure your cables are properly shielded and fully grounded?
No, actually. I can check in a few days, but I bought this monster pre-made so I wouldn't have to troubleshoot. I saw that you do these from time to time- do you have the capacity to troubleshoot one of these mofos sir?
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Jeppen
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Jeppen »

Hi, i'm NESRGB modding an original Famicom.

Could you tell me what this component is?
It's a little in the way of the connector i want to put there instead of the TV-GAME switch.

Is it safe to remove this?

I'm not going to use the RF or any of the switches on this board.

Image
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

I believe that's a coil for adjusting either the video or audio in the RF signal. Since you're not using RF you can feel free to remove it.
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bobrocks95
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by bobrocks95 »

ApolloBoy wrote:I believe that's a coil for adjusting either the video or audio in the RF signal. Since you're not using RF you can feel free to remove it.
Does this by chance mean that I can open my Famicom and adjust either of those coils to improve the video quality? Right now it has the worst quality RF I've seen of any console I've used, it's incredibly snowy.

EDIT: Seems it's mostly due to interference from radio transmissions (the required channels are in the same range as FM) and can't be helped. Guess I'll have to wait for Tim's adapter board before I can ever play my Famicom.
Last edited by bobrocks95 on Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Skips
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Skips »

I would wait until Tim releases his new kit if you plan to use an everdrive with that Famicom. The underneath the PCB option adds extra noise when the system powers on which causes the same problem the US top loaders were having with the pixel clock not syncing right on start up. The problem seems to be with pin 21, when the PPU is not in the kit you have to run a wire to the kit from pin 21. Putting any distance between the kit and pin 21 seems to cause it to not sync right about 50% of the time it powers on. It does this regardless of pin 21 being lifted from the PCB or not. It also does it with the transistor removed.

I had gone back and redone my original Famicom and put the kit on the top side of the Famicom with the PPU in the kit. Putting the PPU in the kit and not connecting pin 21 to the Famicom PCB fixed the problem. If I connected pin 21 to the Famicom PCB even with this method the problem came back (even if the transistor was removed). So basically for the Famicom to work properly with the everdrive you don't want to use an installation method where there is a wire coming off of pin 21 to either the kit or the PCB. Even a short wire will cause the issue to surface. It would seem the PPU needs to be in the kit for the kit to work correctly with the Everdrive.

If you can't wait for Tim's solution you would pretty much need to remove the PPU and put it in the kit (like all the other NES/Famicom revisions), not run pin 21 to the Famicom PCB, and finally connect the second ground to the opposite side of the kit like Tim's Famicom instructions state (if you don't do this last part you get a weird shifting problem with the picture that gives everything an ugly outline). Tim's current Famicom instructions work with original carts but like I said, they will not work correctly with the Everdrive.
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by TechyTom »

Hey all,, I'm hoping someone might be able to point me in some direction for this problem I started having just recently. I'm using a second batch NESRGB in a US toploader, of which I had one of the chips replaced because of the whole error that was in the second batch. Every now and then I would have a garbled image on the screen while playing, at first I thought it was all just from having dirty connections on the cart pin connections (because it would go away after reinserting the cart a couple times), but after polishing everything up it still happens,.

This is currently what I am getting off my NES http://i.imgur.com/OFWdqzu.png (This is the castlevania intro)

That screencap was taking just after I had replaced the SRAM, WRAM, CPU, and PPU with parts from a working toaster I had lying around. to be more precise I had the console open turned it on to test it, and got another garbled image, but it fixed itself shortly after and then went back down hill after a few minutes of playing. Does anyone have any ideas of what might be the problem?
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by leonk »

I had the opportunity to work with a Nintendo multiAV port from an n64. At this point I'm quite verse at the differences, pros and cons between snes, n64 and GameCube when it comes to using as a donor in a top loader mod.

Here's my observations (in case anyone goes out looking for a donor for their modification):

SNES:
- all plastic shell
- needs to be bolted down to PCB
- making cutout for connector is not clean because of the extra bullnose on the connector. It's not a simple square.

N64:
- pretty much the same connector as snes with 1 major difference. It's huge! Twice as long!
- all the pros and cons apply
- I had to bend pins and cut the connector with hack saw
- pins bend easy and are great big pads to solder to

GameCube:
- smaller of all 3
- metal shield around body (can be used with solder on ground plain to hold it down!)
- pins don't bend and are tiny to solder to
- square connector. Easy to cut opening for it.

There you have it. My personal favorite is the GameCube simply because it's easy to cut a hole for it cleanly and they're dirt cheap! (10-15$)

Good luck.
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ApolloBoy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ApolloBoy »

At this point it's much better to use one of the 3D-printed multiouts Helder and BuffaloWing produce on ASSEMbler. Granted they might be a bit on the pricey side ($35 shipped for a top loader multiout back panel, $23 shipped for a panel mount multiout), but you won't feel guilty about gutting a donor system and there's not as much work involved.
leonk
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by leonk »

ApolloBoy wrote:At this point it's much better to use one of the 3D-printed multiouts Helder and BuffaloWing produce on ASSEMbler. Granted they might be a bit on the pricey side ($35 shipped for a top loader multiout back panel, $23 shipped for a panel mount multiout), but you won't feel guilty about gutting a donor system and there's not as much work involved.
Out of stock when I spoke to him last week. ;(
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