NESRGB board available now

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Tyler Red
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Tyler Red »

Lopenator wrote:I can't click your image.
My bad, I imgur'd incorrectly. Should be fixed now though!


I did install a 220pF cap connected to pin 13 and 20 of the PPU and no dice - same behavior as before. Definitely wondering if going bigger or smaller may have an impact.
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

Tyler Red wrote:
Lopenator wrote:I can't click your image.
My bad, I imgur'd incorrectly. Should be fixed now though!


I did install a 220pF cap connected to pin 13 and 20 of the PPU and no dice - same behavior as before. Definitely wondering if going bigger or smaller may have an impact.
Does it happen in only that game?
Tyler Red
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Tyler Red »

Lopenator wrote:Does it happen in only that game?
Yeah, I've only seen it in Final Fantasy. Full disclosure though, I haven't heavily played many others since installing the mod. When I get the chance, I'll put some hours into other games and see if it occurs.

And to rule out some kind of issue with my FF cart /adapter I played it on a second, non-modded FC I have through the same adapter. No color issues.
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

Lopenator wrote:Tim do you think we can damage something if we use too high a pF?
It will stop working eventually with enough capacitance connected. I doubt it would damage anything though. I wouldn't go any higher than 220pf just because that should be more than enough to change the timing to avoid that particular bug. The 66p of capacitors was enough for you anyway it seems.
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

Leaniel wrote:Is the 5pin Chip the Lmv321m5?
It is currently LMV321IDBVR, but I have used LMV321M5 in the past. Basically any LMV321 in a SOT25 (SOT23-5) package is fine.

You can de-solder it adding loads of solder the the pins, heat them all up at once, and slide it off the board.
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

Tyler Red wrote:Hey all, I've been silently following this thread but I want to chime in with what I'm seeing.

I have an original Famicom with the NESRGB v4 installed. I'm experiencing what I suspect is the color timing bug, but it's 100% repeatable; I'm playing the original Final Fantasy on an authentic NES cart via a 72 > 60 pin converter. When I exit any building in a town, most colors are lost. Here's a before and after:
Image
I have 100pf/220pf caps out for delivery today so I will try that fix!
This is the interrupt detection bug. It cannot be fixed by adding a capacitor to the CE# pin of the PPU, no need to try that. It's caused by changes I made to the interrupt detection logic that were not a very well thought out. It's a bit complicated it explain, but under the right conditions the NESRGB is blocking palette register writes because it thinks the PPU still rending when it isn't. I don't know how many games are affected by this one. I only know of one other and that's Bomberman 2.

You can probably fix Zelda by connecting a 10k resistor between the INT# pin (19) and +5V. That's a really hacky fix though, and it won't help Bomberman 2. I think the only proper solution to this one is an additional board that replaces the INT# detection logic in the FPGA.
Tyler Red wrote:I also have a question regarding the new jumpers: The current specification indicates J8 selects between CSYNC TTL (open) and 75-ohm (closed). However, the new version of the board does not have J8. While it does have J9, I suspect that enables/disables the LPF based on a post by Tim:
viletim wrote:The filter in the THS7374 is disabled by default but you can enable it by closing solder jumper J9 if you like.
Does anyone know what the CSYNC output is on the v4? And is it configurable?
It works the way it did on V1, that is the CS# pad is TTL sync with a resistor in series on the board. It will work when directly connected to TTL sync input (well... most of the time, but hardly anybody has a monitor that requires strict TTL sync), or directly connected to a 75 ohm video input, or connected to a 75 ohm video input with 330-470 ohm resistor in series inside the cable. No matter what you do it should just work.
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

Here's a page with all the NESRGB version 4.0 eratta
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

Thanks for your support Tim. I'm sure I speak for us all when I say its appreciated!
Leaniel
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Leaniel »

viletim wrote:
Leaniel wrote:Is the 5pin Chip the Lmv321m5?
It is currently LMV321IDBVR, but I have used LMV321M5 in the past. Basically any LMV321 in a SOT25 (SOT23-5) package is fine.

You can de-solder it adding loads of solder the the pins, heat them all up at once, and slide it off the board.
Thx that is what we think yesterday and what we found to buy.
I order some and I have a heatpad to take these of.
My order should be there in the next days then I replace it




What others?
A which legend of zelda is that?

Image
I dont know zelda on nes that looks like that
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

Leaniel wrote: A which legend of zelda is that?

Image
I dont know zelda on nes that looks like that
Oh, I mean Final Fantasy 1, I got them mixed up somehow.
Tyler Red
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Tyler Red »

viletim wrote:You can probably fix Zelda by connecting a 10k resistor between the INT# pin (19) and +5V. That's a really hacky fix though, and it won't help Bomberman 2. I think the only proper solution to this one is an additional board that replaces the INT# detection logic in the FPGA.
Understood! I'll just leave it as-is for now - when I exit to the world map the colors are restored. I'll keep an eye out for more details on a future fix. Do let me know if I can provide any more info!
Lopenator wrote:Thanks for your support Tim. I'm sure I speak for us all when I say its appreciated!
Yes absolutely. This mod is fantastic and I appreciate all the info!
Leaniel
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Leaniel »

Good to knew I thought I miss a strange zelda game.

Gesendet von meinem SM-G991B mit Tapatalk
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

jkuch77 wrote:
Lopenator wrote:I have an update. My digikey order of new capacitors did not come in yet. I went through my junk drawer and found 2 small ceramic disc capacitors labeled 33 on them. I'm not sure because I don't have a multimeter that can measure capacitance but I only believe them to be 33 pF each. I decided what the hell and installed them both in parallel on pins 13 and ground of the ppu. I have played for about 4 hours and the desync has not happened yet.
Nice! Usually Capacitor codes are 3 digits so if it is 330 it would be 33pF or 331 is 330pF, most likely yours are 33pF then so 66pF total in parallel. Your NES was also an NTSC front loader correct? So, 66pF is working for you, I wonder if I should reduce mine to 100pF which I also had ordered with the 220pF. I wonder if the 220pF will do any kind of damage if it is too high or does this just change the CS# speed and I'm fine leaving it.
Has your issue resurfaced since adding the capacitor?
jkuch77
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by jkuch77 »

Lopenator wrote:Has your issue resurfaced since adding the capacitor?
No, it hasn't re-surfaced yet. Still all good with the 220pF. I think I am going to change it to the 100pF though. Maybe I'll do that this weekend.
copy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by copy »

Hi Tim: Is there likely to be a new hardware revision to address the issues discovered in V4?
sofakng
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by sofakng »

Hey guys, I have two quick questions about my NESRGB20 board:

1) Should J8 (sync) be open or closed? The documentation suggests it should be closed (ie. "75 Ohm"). However, a few other posts suggest it should be open.

Which is correct?

Should the SCART/A-V cable have a 470 Ohm resistor on CSYNC?

2) Is it safe to flash firmware v2.3? I'd like to remove the de-jitter feature if possible.
jkuch77
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by jkuch77 »

jkuch77 wrote:
Lopenator wrote:Has your issue resurfaced since adding the capacitor?
No, it hasn't re-surfaced yet. Still all good with the 220pF. I think I am going to change it to the 100pF though. Maybe I'll do that this weekend.
So, I finally got around to switching the 220pF to 100pF and it didn't have the issue when testing, but there was a new issue like the video signal was out of sync or something as there were weird lines every one in a while. Hard to explain it, but sort of like interference, but not exactly. I just went back to the 220pF and it is good again. Also, I never mentioned that I'm using the HD Retrovision component cable and I have the sync jumper on the NESRGB set to the 75 ohm sync.
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

I am using hd Retrovision also but don't recall which jumper was used for that?
elgarlic
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by elgarlic »

copy wrote:Hi Tim: Is there likely to be a new hardware revision to address the issues discovered in V4?
Yes, I'm wondering this as well. I have a preorder with a reseller and would happily wait as long as it takes if these bugs can be ironed out.

It looks like the errata page (thank you for making this!) has been updated with a link to a list of games with the color tint feature. https://www.nesdev.org/wiki/Colour-emphasis_games Or I didn't notice the link before.


edit: my order has shipped, now :D

I am curious how many of the issues might be fixable through firmware update. Can the v4 be updated like previous versions? Would like to know before removing the color attenuation resistors, in case that's a future possibility. The image posted of Rampart after the fix seems perfectly fine. But if it removes the pre-battle flashing for Final Fantasy (for example), that's of course less than ideal. Thank you
Rekaens
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Rekaens »

Ok so i did a booboo...

i got the 1.4 board 2015.

i just destroyed my J3 pad, i know its leg1 that's connecting to the J3, but, which component is the other one? just so i can wire them up instead.

Thank you a ton in advance.
elgarlic
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by elgarlic »

Well, my nesrgb 4.0 arrived and the color emphasis resistors were already removed, so that was one less decision to make. And some very small scale soldering I don't have to put myself through. I've been testing it in my US frontloader and looking for any of the other bugs, and all looks well so far. No Bomberman II or Final Fantasy palette issues. Final Fantasy lacks the pre battle flashing, as expected, but that's a very small issue in the grand scheme of things. The picture looks great. Very happy with it. :)
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

Does anybody know why the picture is wavy when I use my HD Retrovision cables with my retrotink 2xpro? It looks like wavy horizontal lines. It's hard to tell in the video because because I don't have a capture card. I notice it more on solid colors.

When I use s-video with my retrotink 2xpro it does not happen. My s-video cables are 5$ off Amazon and they look better than the HD Retrovision.

It also does not happen with composite.

I figured I'd ask here Incase something with sync is off. I have used the HD Retrovision cables with my SNES and do not notice any wavyness.

Maybe I should increase pF of CE# and ground capacitor?
Here is a quick video of HD Retrovision

https://youtu.be/9ee36GDCVEE

Here is quick video of s-video
https://youtu.be/em4y1yo1N1k
copy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by copy »

Lopenator wrote:Does anybody know why the picture is wavy when I use my HD Retrovision cables with my retrotink 2xpro? It looks like wavy horizontal lines. It's hard to tell in the video because because I don't have a capture card. I notice it more on solid colors.

When I use s-video with my retrotink 2xpro it does not happen. My s-video cables are 5$ off Amazon and they look better than the HD Retrovision.

It also does not happen with composite.

I figured I'd ask here Incase something with sync is off. I have used the HD Retrovision cables with my SNES and do not notice any wavyness.

Here is a quick video of HD Retrovision
https://youtu.be/9ee36GDCVEE

Here is quick video of s-video
https://youtu.be/em4y1yo1N1k
A total guess: do you have one of the first-run HD Retrovision cables (SNS0-AG0)? They had a "sync jitter" bug.
copy
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by copy »

elgarlic wrote:Well, my nesrgb 4.0 arrived and the color emphasis resistors were already removed, so that was one less decision to make. And some very small scale soldering I don't have to put myself through. I've been testing it in my US frontloader and looking for any of the other bugs, and all looks well so far. No Bomberman II or Final Fantasy palette issues. Final Fantasy lacks the pre battle flashing, as expected, but that's a very small issue in the grand scheme of things. The picture looks great. Very happy with it. :)
Interesting. I got an early 4.0 order, but I'm reluctant to install it at this point. Hoping there will be an update that fixes all the issues, and that I'll be able to do an exchange or something.
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

copy wrote:
Lopenator wrote:Does anybody know why the picture is wavy when I use my HD Retrovision cables with my retrotink 2xpro? It looks like wavy horizontal lines. It's hard to tell in the video because because I don't have a capture card. I notice it more on solid colors.

When I use s-video with my retrotink 2xpro it does not happen. My s-video cables are 5$ off Amazon and they look better than the HD Retrovision.

It also does not happen with composite.

I figured I'd ask here Incase something with sync is off. I have used the HD Retrovision cables with my SNES and do not notice any wavyness.

Here is a quick video of HD Retrovision
https://youtu.be/9ee36GDCVEE

Here is quick video of s-video
https://youtu.be/em4y1yo1N1k
A total guess: do you have one of the first-run HD Retrovision cables (SNS0-AG0)? They had a "sync jitter" bug.
No my cables are SNS0-AHO. This is very interesting because it's similar to what I'm experiencing in their images. It does not happen when I use cables with my SNES.

I think I jitter going on when I use my Retrovision cables. I have j10 closed and it doesn't happen when I use older panels or s-video.
Last edited by Lopenator on Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:59 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

copy wrote:
elgarlic wrote:Well, my nesrgb 4.0 arrived and the color emphasis resistors were already removed, so that was one less decision to make. And some very small scale soldering I don't have to put myself through. I've been testing it in my US frontloader and looking for any of the other bugs, and all looks well so far. No Bomberman II or Final Fantasy palette issues. Final Fantasy lacks the pre battle flashing, as expected, but that's a very small issue in the grand scheme of things. The picture looks great. Very happy with it. :)
Interesting. I got an early 4.0 order, but I'm reluctant to install it at this point. Hoping there will be an update that fixes all the issues, and that I'll be able to do an exchange or something.
I wouldn't mind a new board. With the restock that's happening now it's very tempting.
starlightk7
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by starlightk7 »

copy wrote:I am curious how many of the issues might be fixable through firmware update. Can the v4 be updated like previous versions? Would like to know before removing the color attenuation resistors, in case that's a future possibility. The image posted of Rampart after the fix seems perfectly fine. But if it removes the pre-battle flashing for Final Fantasy (for example), that's of course less than ideal. Thank you
I would like to understand this as well. I bought a set of 5 boards on launch that I haven't installed yet as I was waiting for the various guides to be updated and then had to travel for a few weeks. I'm back from my trip and catching up and this thread now, and I'm a bit worried that it seems like some of these issues won't be fixable or will require significant work to mitigate. I'm not a fan of losing the pre-battle flashing permanently either as the FF games were among my favorites as a child and it takes away from the nostalgia factor knowing that it's not rendering right. :(
Rekaens
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Rekaens »

I've made a boo boo, and i hope you can help me out.

I've accidently burned the J3 jumper pad off (v1.4 - 2015).
where do i need to solder a wire to achieve the same result as the J3 jumper.

Thanks a lot in advance.

I'm sorry for the stupid question.
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Lopenator
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Lopenator »

Rekaens wrote:I've made a boo boo, and i hope you can help me out.

I've accidently burned the J3 jumper pad off (v1.4 - 2015).
where do i need to solder a wire to achieve the same result as the J3 jumper.

Thanks a lot in advance.

I'm sorry for the stupid question.
If I had to take a guess I would say this. I'll double check on my board today.Image
Rekaens
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Rekaens »

Lopenator wrote: If I had to take a guess I would say this. I'll double check on my board today.
Thank you very much, i look forward to your reply!
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