NESRGB board available now

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PixelDharma
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by PixelDharma »

^ Now you guys are just telling me fundamental facts about the reality of old game time variances that I just don't want to know :lol: Joking of course. Those are both very interesting points.

I agree it doesn't matter in practice... but I'll temporarily cling to the idea that I have a perfectly stock timed Famicom.... until the day I actually get an OSSC and need the dejitter to make it work.
leonk
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by leonk »

I’ve installed NESRGB since first version back at the end of 2013 and tested multiple versions on PVM, XRGB mini and OSSC at 5X on my Samsung TV. I don’t recall ever seeing issues nor have any of the hundreds of customer installs I’ve done reported any issues.

This dejitter in 2.0 sounds interesting. Would someone playing on PVM even notice an issue? (I assume no) How does one go about “seeing” the issue on OSSC? (perior to me modding to test on one of my spare nesrgb pcbs I want to make sure I can “see” the before fix)
leonk
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by leonk »

found video on youtube. is this the jitter? I’ve never seen that before. :(

https://youtu.be/E6Jz1JJ2ZRA
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FBX
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by FBX »

On the OSSC in 4x, if you extend the vertical to show all 240 lines and try to optimally time it, you can see the top couple of lines scramble back and forth at 30 times a second (rough guess). Use the home screen of the 240p Test Suite to see it in action on an E1S card.
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Digital Dragon
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Digital Dragon »

Leonk, it's less seeing a flickering line and more major incompatibility with capture cards or certain HDTV's. At least with me, everything was fine except recording on my elgato camlink. That's why I did the dejitter mod.
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Syntax
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Syntax »

It fixes this
Spoiler
Image
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

leonk wrote:I’ve installed NESRGB since first version back at the end of 2013 and tested multiple versions on PVM, XRGB mini and OSSC at 5X on my Samsung TV. I don’t recall ever seeing issues nor have any of the hundreds of customer installs I’ve done reported any issues.

This dejitter in 2.0 sounds interesting. Would someone playing on PVM even notice an issue? (I assume no) How does one go about “seeing” the issue on OSSC? (perior to me modding to test on one of my spare nesrgb pcbs I want to make sure I can “see” the before fix)
There are a few modern TV sets (perhaps all from LG) with SCART inputs which flickers badly on the RGB signal from the NESRGB. It's rare though. I've got about 10 complaints in the past 5 years.
sofakng
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by sofakng »

Is it possible to toggle the dejitter option on/off with a toggle switch?

Also, any idea if Tim will create NESRGB 1.4 special dejitter firmware with the FirebrandX Smooth palette? It looks like it comes with Unsaturated-V6 only. (because the palette switch pins are repurposed for dejitter)
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FBX
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by FBX »

sofakng wrote:Is it possible to toggle the dejitter option on/off with a toggle switch?

Also, any idea if Tim will create NESRGB 1.4 special dejitter firmware with the FirebrandX Smooth palette? It looks like it comes with Unsaturated-V6 only. (because the palette switch pins are repurposed for dejitter)
From what I heard from Tim, he's using a new set for this revision and Smooth is one of them. YUV is another, and I'm not sure what the 3rd one is. I've heard PVM D93 and Sony palettes mentioned.
sofakng
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by sofakng »

Here is the software errata/change logs for the NESRGB firmware: http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_fault/

The latest NESRGB 2.0 board palettes (firmware v2.1) are:
Sony CXA (unknown origin?)
Smooth (Firebrandx November 2017)
YUV (Nestopia 2013)

However, Tim created dejitter firmware that is compatible with the older NESRGB 1.3/1.4 boards, but the only available palette is the Unsaturated V6 version. I was hoping he will create a new firmware (for these older NESRGB 1.3/1.4 boards) but using your newer Smooth palette.
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FBX
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by FBX »

sofakng wrote:Here is the software errata/change logs for the NESRGB firmware: http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/background_fault/

The latest NESRGB 2.0 board palettes (firmware v2.1) are:
Sony CXA (unknown origin?)
Smooth (Firebrandx November 2017)
YUV (Nestopia 2013)

However, Tim created dejitter firmware that is compatible with the older NESRGB 1.3/1.4 boards, but the only available palette is the Unsaturated V6 version. I was hoping he will create a new firmware (for these older NESRGB 1.3/1.4 boards) but using your newer Smooth palette.
I believe so from what he told me. He said he would recreate all 11 firmwares, but perhaps I misunderstood and he meant only for the new revisions.
konkers
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by konkers »

leonk wrote:This dejitter in 2.0 sounds interesting. Would someone playing on PVM even notice an issue? (I assume no) How does one go about “seeing” the issue on OSSC? (perior to me modding to test on one of my spare nesrgb pcbs I want to make sure I can “see” the before fix)
I have a BVM-A20F1U and just installed the dejitter mod on my SNES last night. If you know what to look for, you can notice a slight flicker at the top of the screen w/o the mod. Though, now that I know it's there, I can't not see it. It's WAY more subtle than on my OSSC/HDTV where I get this:
Spoiler
Image
sofakng
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by sofakng »

Quick question...

I'm going to try using the new NESRGB 1.4 de-jitter firmware (Thanks Tim for adding the FBX Smooth palette!) with an SNES a/v multi-out connector (instead of the 8-pin mini-din provided by Tim).

The dejitter installation instructions shows the following:
Palette pad 1 is the new, corrected sync output. You must use this signal instead of V, Y, CS#, PPUV to get the benefit of the de-jitter feature. The 430 ohm series resistor already on the board makes its suitable to connect directly to a 75 ohm sync input.
My SCART cable doesn't have a 470 ohm resistor on the CSYNC line. Is this OK and correct?

Should jumper J8 (NESRGB 1.4) be shorted for TTL or 75 ohm, or does it even matter for this firmware?

(I also have Marqs dejitter board but I was thinking its better just using the NESRGB dejitter firmware, or does anybody think using the separate dejitter board + NESRGB has any benefits?)
viletim
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by viletim »

sofakng,

If you left the 430 ohm resistor in series with palette pad 1 then you can just connect it to a SCART composite video input without any extra resistor required in the cable. If there is a resistor in the cable that's fine too.

J8 in no longer relevant when you use the sync from palette pin 1.
sofakng
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by sofakng »

Thanks so much Tim!
Taiyaki
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Taiyaki »

Can someone remind me how to get scart RGB out of a NESRGB modded Nes again? It's been so many years I haven't done it I forget how (been using S-video since 2015). I think I recall having to go Mini Din + 2rca for audio into a scart cable, is this correct?

Here's a pic of the back of my NES from back when Pasky did this beautiful mod on my system.

Image
ldeveraux
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ldeveraux »

Taiyaki wrote:Can someone remind me how to get scart RGB out of a NESRGB modded Nes again? It's been so many years I haven't done it I forget how (been using S-video since 2015). I think I recall having to go Mini Din + 2rca for audio into a scart cable, is this correct?

Here's a pic of the back of my NES from back when Pasky did this beautiful mod on my system.
You have the 8 pin mini DIN output on the back. Plug your NES SCART cable into that.
Taiyaki
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Taiyaki »

ldeveraux wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:Can someone remind me how to get scart RGB out of a NESRGB modded Nes again? It's been so many years I haven't done it I forget how (been using S-video since 2015). I think I recall having to go Mini Din + 2rca for audio into a scart cable, is this correct?

Here's a pic of the back of my NES from back when Pasky did this beautiful mod on my system.
You have the 8 pin mini DIN output on the back. Plug your NES SCART cable into that.
Does it carry the audio as well?
nmalinoski
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by nmalinoski »

Taiyaki wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:Can someone remind me how to get scart RGB out of a NESRGB modded Nes again? It's been so many years I haven't done it I forget how (been using S-video since 2015). I think I recall having to go Mini Din + 2rca for audio into a scart cable, is this correct?

Here's a pic of the back of my NES from back when Pasky did this beautiful mod on my system.
You have the 8 pin mini DIN output on the back. Plug your NES SCART cable into that.
Does it carry the audio as well?
If your 8-pin DIN connector was wired to carry audio, then yes.
Taiyaki
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Taiyaki »

nmalinoski wrote:If your 8-pin DIN connector was wired to carry audio, then yes.
Is that a recent practice to do this? From what I remember back in 2014 the audio used to be separate but I could be wrong. Is there any reason to not connect the audio to the Din connector? I don't think mine was connected because I remember even Tim used to sell these RGB kits for users to build that would hook it up to both the Din and the audio, maybe this has changed since then.
flex
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by flex »

I thought the most common method was to use a SNES style MultiAV connector but I guess you can use any connector you like assuming it wired up correctly and you have the scart cable to match!
Makinx
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Makinx »

Taiyaki wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:If your 8-pin DIN connector was wired to carry audio, then yes.
Is that a recent practice to do this? From what I remember back in 2014 the audio used to be separate but I could be wrong. Is there any reason to not connect the audio to the Din connector? I don't think mine was connected because I remember even Tim used to sell these RGB kits for users to build that would hook it up to both the Din and the audio, maybe this has changed since then.
Tim's installation guide has audio on a separate connector to avoid interference, so I assume most people followed that. I myself connected it to 8 pin DIN because I didn't want 2 output connectors. Works fine for me, everyone can do whatever they prefer.
ldeveraux
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ldeveraux »

Taiyaki wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:If your 8-pin DIN connector was wired to carry audio, then yes.
Is that a recent practice to do this? From what I remember back in 2014 the audio used to be separate but I could be wrong. Is there any reason to not connect the audio to the Din connector? I don't think mine was connected because I remember even Tim used to sell these RGB kits for users to build that would hook it up to both the Din and the audio, maybe this has changed since then.
There are 2 ways to find out; try a NES SCART cable, or open 'er up! It's not that hard to connect audio to the mini DIN if it's not IIRC.

I forgot that etim's sorta-current install has the 3.5mm audio port, not audio through the cable. But your installation doesn't have that audio breakout. So you would either have audio mapped to the 8-pin DIN, or use this:
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/nin ... -lead-cord
Last edited by ldeveraux on Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
thebigcheese
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by thebigcheese »

Yeah, I believe it is separate to avoid interference and audio buzz. But a well-shielded cable also gets rid of that, so I've had no problems wiring it to a multi-out.
Taiyaki
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Taiyaki »

I see, makes sense. I don't mind the audio being separate, I just have to ask for a custom made csync cable for 8din with stereo rca from Retro Access I guess. Problem I had last time was that the cable she made didn't work and the return process got stuck in limbo where I wasn't receiving replies from her on ebay (this was around 5 years ago now). I don't even remember if the cable she made was csync, whatever it was was giving me a black and white picture with a buzz. I'll be more specific and hopefully this time around I finally get to pull out RGB from the console.
ldeveraux
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ldeveraux »

Taiyaki wrote:I see, makes sense. I don't mind the audio being separate, I just have to ask for a custom made csync cable for 8din with stereo rca from Retro Access I guess. Problem I had last time was that the cable she made didn't work and the return process got stuck in limbo where I wasn't receiving replies from her on ebay (this was around 5 years ago now). I don't even remember if the cable she made was csync, whatever it was was giving me a black and white picture with a buzz. I'll be more specific and hopefully this time around I finally get to pull out RGB from the console.
I mean, sure, but you should definitely open the NES and take a look first to see how it was soldered. It could be any of the scenarios I outlined above, so you wouldn't want to purchase the wrong $40 cable before at least confirming your mod.
Taiyaki
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Taiyaki »

ldeveraux wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:I mean, sure, but you should definitely open the NES and take a look first to see how it was soldered. It could be any of the scenarios I outlined above, so you wouldn't want to purchase the wrong $40 cable before at least confirming your mod.
Will do. Problem is I'm not a modder myself so I wouldn't know if anything's wrong, but maybe I can compare with someone's else's mod through pictures available online. I'd be surprised if it were modded wrong as Pasky has always done amazing work on all mods he's done for me.
ldeveraux
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by ldeveraux »

Taiyaki wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:
Taiyaki wrote:I mean, sure, but you should definitely open the NES and take a look first to see how it was soldered. It could be any of the scenarios I outlined above, so you wouldn't want to purchase the wrong $40 cable before at least confirming your mod.
Will do. Problem is I'm not a modder myself so I wouldn't know if anything's wrong, but maybe I can compare with someone's else's mod through pictures available online. I'd be surprised if it were modded wrong as Pasky has always done amazing work on all mods he's done for me.
There would be nothing wrong per se, and maybe I'm getting too nit picky about this. You just need to identify to where the audio routes so you know which cable to purchase (if the RGB video works at all :shock: ). Audio clearly passes to the RCA ports as you've been using them successfully. Follow those wires back to determine if audio was also passed to the DIN port. My guess is that it's not, and they system was designed to be used with the cable I linked to earlier. But it would be nice to know at least!
Taiyaki
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Taiyaki »

ldeveraux wrote:There would be nothing wrong per se, and maybe I'm getting too nit picky about this. You just need to identify to where the audio routes so you know which cable to purchase (if the RGB video works at all :shock: ). Audio clearly passes to the RCA ports as you've been using them successfully. Follow those wires back to determine if audio was also passed to the DIN port. My guess is that it's not, and they system was designed to be used with the cable I linked to earlier. But it would be nice to know at least!
I went back in my message inbox to look at communications I had with Pasky from 5 years ago, and surely enough he guided me to Viletim's site for the RGB cable which had audio on the separate line, so the audio is most likely not on the Din 8 pin. He also specified he set it up to work with csync. Now looking at the cable I had which was giving me video problems, it's a composite video scart cable, maybe that's the problem?

Either that or it was a voltage issue on the cable I'm thinking. :?
nmalinoski
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by nmalinoski »

Taiyaki wrote:
ldeveraux wrote:There would be nothing wrong per se, and maybe I'm getting too nit picky about this. You just need to identify to where the audio routes so you know which cable to purchase (if the RGB video works at all :shock: ). Audio clearly passes to the RCA ports as you've been using them successfully. Follow those wires back to determine if audio was also passed to the DIN port. My guess is that it's not, and they system was designed to be used with the cable I linked to earlier. But it would be nice to know at least!
I went back in my message inbox to look at communications I had with Pasky from 5 years ago, and surely enough he guided me to Viletim's site for the RGB cable which had audio on the separate line, so the audio is most likely not on the Din 8 pin. He also specified he set it up to work with csync. Now looking at the cable I had which was giving me video problems, it's a composite video scart cable, maybe that's the problem?

Either that or it was a voltage issue on the cable I'm thinking. :?
1) If your installer followed Tim Worthington's guide exactly, then yeah, you would see audio provided by the TRS jack, in which case you would need a cable with an 8-pin DIN plus a TRS dongle to get both audio and video onto the SCART cable. If Retro-Access doesn't already sell something like this, then they can certainly make one for you (Unmodified Genesis/MD needs this sort of setup to get stereo audio).

2) If you had a SCART cable that was only wired for composite video (cable would feel a bit thin, and the SCART connector would likely not have all 20 blades populated), and sync on the 8-pin DIN was wired for clean composite sync, then you would get no image on the screen. Sync would be on the correct lines, and the display might think there was something connected, but none of the red, green, and blue lines would be wired, and thus there would be nothing to display.
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