NESRGB board available now

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kcsims
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by kcsims »

Asbrandt wrote:
kcsims wrote:I want to get a av famicom system with the nesrgb installed, but I have a couple questions before I go down that road.

I saw many comments about out the av fami does not mix audio properly on expansion audio games and FDS. I have read through this topic, but did not see if there was a definite fix or not. Are there any solutions available?
With extremely late original-Famicoms and all AV-Famicoms, Nintendo changed the IC they were using as a buffer for the audio and while it works fine for non-expansion-audio cartridges, expansion audio cartridges seem to interact poorly with this modified circuit and adversely affect the main system audio levels. The NESRGB has it's own audio amp you can use instead, refer to this post:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p1115605

However, do not add C2, as it will pull down cartridge audio as I discovered, simply placing the switch in the "cartridges" position for cartridges regardless of expansion audio seems to be sufficient in preventing the wire from becoming an antenna for noise.
Otherwise the configuration is pretty solid, although I find expansion audio to be slightly too loud on both cartridges and Everdrive compared to some reference recordings, I've been meaning to try using a 43k instead of a 39k, but I have not got around to doing so.
Just want to make sure I understand correctly.

On pin 45 you are say do not add C2? Should I not cut the trace on pin 45 at all?

And as far as the diagram for pin 46 goes, leave that one as is except for maybe use a 43k resistor instead of the 39k?

Does everdrive audio behave that differently to need the switch there?

Thanks for your help.
Asbrandt
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Asbrandt »

kcsims wrote:Just want to make sure I understand correctly.

On pin 45 you are say do not add C2? Should I not cut the trace on pin 45 at all?
You still need to cut the traces for both pins 45 and 46.
kcsims wrote:And as far as the diagram for pin 46 goes, leave that one as is except for maybe use a 43k resistor instead of the 39k?
Correct.
kcsims wrote:Does everdrive audio behave that differently to need the switch there?

Thanks for your help.
Yes, the Everdrive's expansion audio output is far, far quieter than original cartridges, even on the HI setting.
I tested with the 3rd party VRC6 mapper (75% volume on HI setting version) and 5B mapper, both available on the Everdrive forums.
kcsims
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by kcsims »

Asbrandt wrote:
kcsims wrote:Just want to make sure I understand correctly.

On pin 45 you are say do not add C2? Should I not cut the trace on pin 45 at all?
You still need to cut the traces for both pins 45 and 46.

So pin 45 from the cart just gets grounded after the trace is cut and skip the 10 μ compactor (C2)?


Also, do you happen to have any pics of this installed?

Thanks!
Asbrandt
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Asbrandt »

kcsims wrote:So pin 45 from the cart just gets grounded after the trace is cut and skip the 10 μ compactor (C2)?
No, just cut the trace and leave it disconnected. Pin 45 is how main system audio is routed into the cartridge, which we don't want to happen when using viletim's configuration.
The capacitor to ground was intended to prevent cartridges without expansion audio from allowing the wire out from pin 46 to become an antenna, however any connection to ground on pin 45 appears to affect original cartridges with expansion audio circuits, even though that is an input (to the cartridge) rather than an output.
kcsims wrote:Also, do you happen to have any pics of this installed?

Thanks!
At the moment I do not, but I may be able to take some tomorrow. I don't know if anyone else is also using this configuration.
Ripthorn
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Ripthorn »

Ripthorn wrote:Well, I think I just blow my AV Famicom :(

Most of the times I get white screen, as if there were no cartridge, sometimes I get pinky/red/green screen and other times the game boots but freezes after few seconds.

Does anyone know what could be the problem?
Well... Removed the NES RGB and put back the PPU and same thing happens, plus some games starts with garbaged graphics, tried another PPU and same thing again. I tested the PPU in other install and works fine.

I think I used too much heat which eventually severed some traces.
Image
Looking at the picture, it seems to me that traces is OK, just the PCB coat is burned.
Not sure what went wrong, any suggestion on how I can save this AV Famicom board?
I appreciate any help.
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bobrocks95
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by bobrocks95 »

I'm no expert, but this looks like you took a blowtorch to the PCB or something.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
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keropi
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by keropi »

it sure looks that excessive heat did some damage, get a multimeter and check/repair the traces and I believe the issue will get fixed
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Voultar
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Voultar »

Probably nipped an address line if you're getting a few garbled tiles.
Galgomite
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Galgomite »

Could someone help me out? I purchased an RGB NES over the summer. After resolving some other issues I was having with RGB SCART (much thanks to superg for his advice), I am still left with some bizarre audio problems. Basically, the console has a stereo mod, and very often only some channels put out sound. For instance in Ninja Gaiden, the BGM tune might play, but the bass, jump and slashing sounds may be muted or missing altogether. More frustrating, this problem comes and goes, though recently it seems more consistently compromised. Does anyone have any idea what the problem could be? I've tried 2 scart cables and an s-video cable, all with the same result.
Ripthorn
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Ripthorn »

bobrocks95 wrote:I'm no expert, but this looks like you took a blowtorch to the PCB or something.
Hot air, to be more precise :|
keropi wrote:it sure looks that excessive heat did some damage, get a multimeter and check/repair the traces and I believe the issue will get fixed
Voultar wrote:Probably nipped an address line if you're getting a few garbled tiles.
All PPU traces leads to CPU or cartridge pins, right? What would be the easiest way to fix the traces?
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keropi
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by keropi »

The pcb is a 2-sided one , no internal layer so you can easily see every trace on the motherboard. Do a visual check with the multimeter and see if you get continuity between all points. If you see a trace going somewhere but you get no continuity then just repair with a wire or whatever method you like and see if that fixes the issue.
There isn't any other way AFAIK, you just need to take the time and check if everything is OK.
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Sir Arthur ahf
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Sir Arthur ahf »

Hello guys,

Just to comment that I got a NESrgb from Tim a few months ago.

I had some teething problems making the mod on a AV Famicom. Thankfully, Pek Mcmanagan (a friend of Tim) helped me a lot and voilá, the results are truly magnificient.

Image quality is superb. I am really happy with the final result

Kudos for Tim and for Pek

Free bump Tim!!
rayik
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by rayik »

I am installing NESRGB into a US NES front loader. I have read the entire 135 page thread. I have several questions

1) I am going to use NESRGB audio. Is it correct that on a NES front loader there is no need to disconnect the audio on the NES?

2) I am connecting the NES to a frameister xrgb mini. I bought the 8 pin mini-din cable with the kit. I have read the thread in which it is recommended that audio be run seperately from the video. If I connect audio to the 9 pin mini-din (with video) will the noise be noticable? How bad is it?

3) I can make a custom scart cable. If I make a custom cable with both audio / video connections but separate audio and video cables between connectors, will that eliminate any noise problem?

I really want to use one cable as xrgb mini rgb in does not have separate audio in jacks.

Thanks for the help.
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Einzelherz
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Einzelherz »

rayik wrote:I am installing NESRGB into a US NES front loader. I have read the entire 135 page thread. I have several questions

1) I am going to use NESRGB audio. Is it correct that on a NES front loader there is no need to disconnect the audio on the NES?

2) I am connecting the NES to a frameister xrgb mini. I bought the 8 pin mini-din cable with the kit. I have read the thread in which it is recommended that audio be run seperately from the video. If I connect audio to the 9 pin mini-din (with video) will the noise be noticable? How bad is it?

3) I can make a custom scart cable. If I make a custom cable with both audio / video connections but separate audio and video cables between connectors, will that eliminate any noise problem?

I really want to use one cable as xrgb mini rgb in does not have separate audio in jacks.

Thanks for the help.
1. Correct. You can just pull audio off of the chip's two points and send it directly to the NESRGB.

2. I think I'm the only one using a 9 pin mini din and I don't notice any auto distortion. I know there are others with more discerning ears.

3. Running two shielded cables alongside one another and joining at both ends should reduce any noise in theory. I used a NAKI Dreamcast cable for my NESRGB and it's a-ok. If you intend to build a full one and it's not much more trouble to split (even for testing purposes) why not just try it?
rayik
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Re: NESRGB board available now*

Post by rayik »

Thanks Einzelherz.

I'll just feed audio though the minidin and see how it sounds.
rayik
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by rayik »

One more question.

I purchased the top loader version of the nesrgb before actually getting a NES. Ended up getting a front loader instead.

The kit I bought did not come with the voltage regulator. Will it be okay to just solder J3 and use the NES power supply for the nesrgb on a front loader?
leonk
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by leonk »

rayik wrote:One more question.

I purchased the top loader version of the nesrgb before actually getting a NES. Ended up getting a front loader instead.

The kit I bought did not come with the voltage regulator. Will it be okay to just solder J3 and use the NES power supply for the nesrgb on a front loader?
I never use the voltage regulator with the front loader kits. You'll be fine.
leonk
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by leonk »

rayik wrote: 2) I am connecting the NES to a frameister xrgb mini. I bought the 8 pin mini-din cable with the kit. I have read the thread in which it is recommended that audio be run seperately from the video. If I connect audio to the 9 pin mini-din (with video) will the noise be noticable? How bad is it?
This is one way of doing it. The more optimal install is to use a 3D printed or pulled from dead system Nintendo MultiAV port (I get them out of dead SNES consoles). Nintendo used this port on SNES, N64, Gamecube (and even Famicom AV!). The advantage here is that you can use the same SCART cable on multiple consoles. In addition, it makes your NES console more versatile. You can use composite, S-Video or RGB using a single port.
rayik
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by rayik »

leonk wrote: I never use the voltage regulator with the front loader kits. You'll be fine.
Thanks leonk.
rayik
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by rayik »

leonk wrote:
rayik wrote: 2) I am connecting the NES to a frameister xrgb mini. I bought the 8 pin mini-din cable with the kit. I have read the thread in which it is recommended that audio be run seperately from the video. If I connect audio to the 9 pin mini-din (with video) will the noise be noticable? How bad is it?
This is one way of doing it. The more optimal install is to use a 3D printed or pulled from dead system Nintendo MultiAV port (I get them out of dead SNES consoles). Nintendo used this port on SNES, N64, Gamecube (and even Famicom AV!). The advantage here is that you can use the same SCART cable on multiple consoles. In addition, it makes your NES console more versatile. You can use composite, S-Video or RGB using a single port.
I've seen the posts about this. Right now I use a frameister xrgb mini. Using rgb output, retro systems look stunning. For now I'm just going to install rgb. I can probably add a multi connector in the future if needed. I can see the advantage of having three methods of outputting available.
rayik
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by rayik »

I broke something - snes, nesrgb or both.

When removing the ppu I broke off pin #120 (ground). It broke off the leg completely, from where it goes into the silicon. I thought I soldered a leg from a resister to it.

Put everything together. Nothing. No picture from rgb nor the nes composite. No green screen. Nothing. Actually, tv says "no signal." Power light does go on though

Don't know if this would have damaged anything, but before reassembling I put duck hunt cart in upside and turned unit on. Had blinking red light. Pushed reset 6 times and it then illuminated. Hoping cart upside down would not damage anything.


******** EDIT

Here's some pictures. Pretty embarrassing what I did to the ppu

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kaw2g5am6fjk0 ... 8.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eupsct7vhhtml ... 9.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iv6pzvl9mbu8c ... 4.JPG?dl=0
leonk
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by leonk »

oh oh... that's pin #20 not #120.

Your biggest issue now is that PPU is soldered onto the NESRGB and not socketed. Unless you have a desoldering station, you will destroy the NESRGB trying to remove that PPU. The NESRGB is not as "forgiving" as the NES PCB when it comes to removing the PPU.

The moment pin 20 broke, you should have gotten another Nintendo and used it as donor. Nintendo systems are cheap. NESRGB PCB is not. Not sure what I can tell you at this point. Unless you got the right equipment and skill to use it, I think you're at a dead end. :(
Skips
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by Skips »

leonk wrote:oh oh... that's pin #20 not #120.

Your biggest issue now is that PPU is soldered onto the NESRGB and not socketed. Unless you have a desoldering station, you will destroy the NESRGB trying to remove that PPU. The NESRGB is not as "forgiving" as the NES PCB when it comes to removing the PPU.

The moment pin 20 broke, you should have gotten another Nintendo and used it as donor. Nintendo systems are cheap. NESRGB PCB is not. Not sure what I can tell you at this point. Unless you got the right equipment and skill to use it, I think you're at a dead end. :(
It can still be saved but he does need to get another PPU. Rayik, don't try desoldering the PPU the same way you did from the NES PCB. Since the PPU is garbage get a pair of wire snips and snip the PPU free of all of its legs (DO SO GENTLY). This will just leave the pins of the PPU soldered to the NESRGB. With your Iron on medium heat (just hot enough to easily melt the solder) pull each leg out of each hole (touch the iron to the pins not the NESRGB solder pads). You will then be able to remove the solder from the NESRGB through holes if any is left via desoldering braid. DO NOT set your iron to ultra hot, the pads on the NESRGB kit will lift off. What I just said is the easiest way for a novice installer to save their NESRGB kit from a botched install. Sucks you will lose the PPU but its far better than losing the much more expensive kit itself.

Next time you solder stuff down make sure you are applying heat to the thing you are soldering to THEN touching the solder to the heated item. Don't solder by transferring solder to the pads/pins by putting it on the iron then touching it to them. You have a lot of partially filled through holes there. Those should be full and shiny looking if done correctly.
I am no longer taking free or paid modding projects, please do not contact me asking for my services. Thanks :).
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muckyfingers
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by muckyfingers »

It also looks like a wire strand from the Green wire is touching the Blue wire. Anyways, I have an extra PPU, if you are interested send me a pm.
rayik
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by rayik »

muckyfingers wrote:Anyways, I have an extra PPU, if you are interested send me a pm.
PM sent
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yesimnathan
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by yesimnathan »

Hey guys. Sorry if this is the wrong place. I'm new here. I just attempted my first NESRGB install and I'm having some issues. I fear that I've gooched my PPU. The installation went fine but removing the PPU didn't go so well. Here are some images of what I'm getting through s-video (SCART cable hasn't arrived yet).

http://imgur.com/t5co5SS
http://imgur.com/ynZScJr

Does anyone have any suggestions for troubleshooting? Is this definitely a bad PPU? I went back & verified all of my solder contacts to make sure they were good. I don't know if it matters, but I currently have the pallette hard-wired to 'Normal'. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If this is in the wrong place, I apologize again! I wasn't sure where else to ask for help with this.
rayik
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by rayik »

I now have it working.

Thank you muckyfingers for sending me a working ppu. Took the nesrgb, removed the bad ppu, installed a socket on the nesrgb and then the ppu muckyfingers sent. No go. Screen would alternate every second between black screen and no signal. Noticed then that on the nesrgb I had the pin headers and ppu in reversed positions. (Pin headers soldered where ppu should have been)

Decided to start from scratch knowing i had a good pppu.

Got a second front loader and nesrgb. Removed the ppu successfully using hakko iron and solderput. The ppu worked fine when inserted into the socket put on the nes board. On the nesrgb I put 45 degree pin headers for the a/v and palette switch connectors. Made dupont headers for those wires, crimping and then soldering the wire to each pin before inserting into connector. Everything now works fine.

One thing I learned was you will get a 240p output black screen if the palette switch ground wire is not connected to the nesrgb.

Here's some pictures.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xyhc48xy2pdbk ... 9.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5rz37tr9e4o7j ... 1.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fzjuzb9z2p96a ... 1.JPG?dl=0

I did not have proper size drill bit for connecter. Probably should have bought one rather than ream the whole out. Not bad, but not perfect
https://www.dropbox.com/s/np55cievez2og ... 9.JPG?dl=0

I'm sure I'd do a better job if I did a 3rd.
leonk
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by leonk »

I know a lot of modders use pin headers for quick disconnect, but I'm not a huge fan of them. I've experienced too many cases of these quick disconnects disconnecting on their own!! Nothing beats soldering wires to a PCB before it gets shipped 1/2 way around the world, shaken on an air plane, kicked around by a delivery boy, etc.

Quick disconnects are useful if you plan on adding / removing the device often. But lets face it, once installed, how often will they ever be disconnected?

I prefer the quick disconnects used by manufacturers, where the connector actually has a locking mechanism. These will never come out. But these "slide on" just as easily "slide off". :(
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yesimnathan
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by yesimnathan »

yesimnathan wrote:Hey guys. Sorry if this is the wrong place. I'm new here. I just attempted my first NESRGB install and I'm having some issues. I fear that I've gooched my PPU. The installation went fine but removing the PPU didn't go so well. Here are some images of what I'm getting through s-video (SCART cable hasn't arrived yet).

http://imgur.com/t5co5SS
http://imgur.com/ynZScJr

Does anyone have any suggestions for troubleshooting? Is this definitely a bad PPU? I went back & verified all of my solder contacts to make sure they were good. I don't know if it matters, but I currently have the pallette hard-wired to 'Normal'. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If this is in the wrong place, I apologize again! I wasn't sure where else to ask for help with this.
I ended up resolving the issue. Turns out, there was a cut trace on the board next to my PPU. Bypassed the trace with some tiny wire and it works like a charm!
rayik
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Re: NESRGB board available now

Post by rayik »

leonk wrote:I know a lot of modders use pin headers for quick disconnect, but I'm not a huge fan of them. I've experienced too many cases of these quick disconnects disconnecting on their own!! Nothing beats soldering wires to a PCB before it gets shipped 1/2 way around the world, shaken on an air plane, kicked around by a delivery boy, etc.

Quick disconnects are useful if you plan on adding / removing the device often. But lets face it, once installed, how often will they ever be disconnected?

I prefer the quick disconnects used by manufacturers, where the connector actually has a locking mechanism. These will never come out. But these "slide on" just as easily "slide off". :(
I agree that they slide off easily. That's how learned there is a 240p black screen when the palette switch is not connected.

This was my 2nd try at installing the nesrgb. First one failed. I wanted disconnects in case I made a mistake with wiring it. It's just for myself. If anything slides out I can solder it to the pads.

It was much easier a 2nd time. If I ever do it a 3rd time, it will probably be even easier. Since I just do these for myself, probably won't have to do it again.

I have a 2600rgb kit. Probably enjoy the NES for a while before installing it.
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