NESRGB board available now

[darcagn]

Since you're using an AV Famicom with 1.7, could you by chance be able to test Super Mario Bros., Zelda 1, or Castlevania 1, to see if you get background issues like the ones in my video here? http://youtu.be/mPZNcT4JqDU These are NES carts, but I also found a fault in the opening cutscene for Famicom Wars (gray background that should've been black). Before the mod, my NES to Famicom converter worked flawlessly on all my games, except for Castlevania III.

I've confirmed from my modder that it is not firmware 1.7 on my board (from the May batch), but someone said that these specific issues have not been reported before, so I was concerned if maybe AV Famicom is not as good of a candidate for the mod as had been previously believed, and if 1.7 will even fix my issues.

If you're not on 1.7, upgrade, trust me, that will likely fix it, 99% certainty. Nothing wrong with using an AV Famicom with this mod. The background fault is a common thing, I just haven't seen it manifest in that way (multiple colors, etc.) personally, when it faulted on my front loader NES with a 1.0 board revision, it just stuck solid grey. But I'm pretty sure you just need your firmware updated.

PAGE 100!

[ApolloBoy]

Is the Original japanese Famicom using the same CPU chip as the US ones?

Uh yes...

[GohanX]

Since you're using an AV Famicom with 1.7, could you by chance be able to test Super Mario Bros., Zelda 1, or Castlevania 1, to see if you get background issues like the ones in my video here? http://youtu.be/mPZNcT4JqDU

I've played SMB1 and Zelda 1 (FDS version) and both play perfectly for me. I haven't tried Castlevania 1 yet, but 3 (japanese version) was fine as well.

[mvsfan]

just contact the us distributor since he is your modder and see if you can send it back to him to be reprogrammed.

It should fix your issue especially since he confirmed that your NOT on the 1.7 firmware.

[Einzelherz]

How do I set the different pallets with just a jumper wire?

Just solder one of the palettes you want to ground. That's pretty much it. If you want the option to change them, you might want to think about using a switch.

That's what I'm trying to sort out. From what I've found, nothing is composite palette, and then to access the other three I ground 1,2,or 3. Is that correct?

[ApolloBoy]

How do I set the different pallets with just a jumper wire?

Just solder one of the palettes you want to ground. That's pretty much it. If you want the option to change them, you might want to think about using a switch.

That's what I'm trying to sort out. From what I've found, nothing is composite palette, and then to access the other three I ground 1,2,or 3. Is that correct?

No, not having anything selected turns the NESRGB off. If you wire any of the three pads to the ground pad it selects that particular palette.

[mvsfan]

einzelherz: 1 is Garish (playchoice) 2 is improved and 3 is Natural (composite palette generated through nesrgb.)

IF you hook up nothing it is the original composite video generated by the ppu - like the nesrgb was never installed in your system.

for the switch that tim is now including (single pole on off on)

you should tie ground to pin 3 - connect a wire to those two bridged pads - connect that to the center of your switch

and then connect the two outer poles on the switch seperately with their own individual wires to the 1 and 2 pads. 1 goes to 1 outer leg on the switch and 2 goes to the other outer leg on the switch.


Tim has an explanation and diagram here.

http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/switch/

[Jeppen]

Is the Original japanese Famicom using the same CPU chip as the US ones?

Uh yes...

Thanks



Another question:

I have the second NESRGB batch (January 2014),
is the 1.7 version the best also for this batch?

[Jeppen]

Original FAMICOM installation.

This was posted by Tim.

Code: Select all

Addendum: Board modification required if powered (always on) from the external regulator.

Normally the NESRGB board would not need connection to RST# (reset) when installed inside a Famicom. However, if the external regulators is installed and the NESRGB board is always powered, a reset pulse is required to synchronise the the NESRGB with the PPU. In this case the RST# signal should be connected to the CPU (not PPU) reset signal on CPU pin 3. Additionally, a resistor must be removed from the NESRGB board to prevent it from interfering with the CPU reset circuit. The resistor is a 100k connected between +5V and RST#. It is encircled in the picture below.

Does that mean you need to press the RESET button every time you turn it on?

It says the NESRGB board will be *Always On* if the External regulator is installed, if I cut the power completely, will I still need to reset the system when turning the Famicom on? (If Yes on the above question)

Also, do i really need to use the external regulator with the Original Famicom?


Cheers!

[darcagn]

Is the Original japanese Famicom using the same CPU chip as the US ones?

Uh yes...

Thanks



Another question:

I have the second NESRGB batch (January 2014),
is the 1.7 version the best also for this batch?

The firmware is universal. Everyone should update to 1.7, no matter which batch.

[Einzelherz]

einzelherz: 1 is Garish (playchoice) 2 is improved and 3 is Natural (composite palette generated through nesrgb.)

IF you hook up nothing it is the original composite video generated by the ppu - like the nesrgb was never installed in your system.

for the switch that tim is now including (single pole on off on)

you should tie ground to pin 3 - connect a wire to those two bridged pads - connect that to the center of your switch

and then connect the two outer poles on the switch seperately with their own individual wires to the 1 and 2 pads. 1 goes to 1 outer leg on the switch and 2 goes to the other outer leg on the switch.


Tim has an explanation and diagram here.

http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/switch/

Thank you for the clarification. I was actually hoping to use the rf ch3-4 switch, probably between improved and natural.

[mvsfan]

i think some games do look better on garish though - like Gun-Nac.

nothing beats having all 3 because certain games i think look better on certain palettes.

[game-tech.us]

Did your PPU have a heatsink? How did you remove it?

One of the sharp twin's I modded had a small sink on it, first i'd seen as well other than the pc10 chips.
No real need to remove it if it doesn't touch anything else.

[eightbitminiboss]

Did your PPU have a heatsink? How did you remove it?

One of the sharp twin's I modded had a small sink on it, first i'd seen as well other than the pc10 chips.
No real need to remove it if it doesn't touch anything else.

Holy hell that's blowing my mind. I've only opened up 2 Twins that I own and neither have that. So weird to see that.

Edit: Oh, thought crossed my mind. LaC what model Twin do you have? game-tech, same question. I wonder if it follows a particular model. Both my systems are the AN-505BK model.

[Sixfortyfive]

Now that I've got my system up and running, I've made some captures detailing the difference for another forum. Thought I'd share them here as well if anyone wants to use them. It's just a 1-minute clip of MM3. (x264 video, MP3 audio)



Other than the horizontal resolution being a bit off (a capture card quirk), I think they're about as representative as you can get. Some visual oddities that you might notice (flickering stage select screen, wobbly lines at the top, pop-in at the bottom) are inherent to the game itself and not caused by the NESRGB.

h/t to Apolloboy for hooking me up.

[mufunyo]

And people said they didn't know what I was on about when I mentioned the NES PPU has one of the sharpest native composite outputs of any retro console.

[Sixfortyfive]

That was the biggest surprise of the test run. I did a double-take when reviewing the footage and had to make sure I didn't crank up the sharpness filter for one of the captures by accident.

[game-tech.us]

Edit: Oh, thought crossed my mind. LaC what model Twin do you have? game-tech, same question. I wonder if it follows a particular model. Both my systems are the AN-505BK model.

If I remember right they were both 505R's.

[mvsfan]

the composite output on the nes might be sharp - but the nes has TONS of dot-crawl.

as soon as things start moving it looks like shit.

btw that capture of the nesrgb generated composite looks blurrier than the stock composite. howd that happen?

[mufunyo]

the composite output on the nes might be sharp - but the nes has TONS of dot-crawl.
btw that capture of the nesrgb generated composite looks blurrier than the stock composite. howd that happen?

Both of those things are related to each other. The NES output is very sharp, which makes it hard for a comb filter to figure out the difference between crosstalk and actual movement/detail in all but completely flat/static areas. As far as I know viletim uses a CXA2075 (or a clone), which has a comprehensive prefilter reducing crosstalk at the expense of sharpness.

[mvsfan]

Ive never noticed that the nesrgb was anything besides super clear - not blurry at all.

the only thing i notice is when i try to capture it i get wavy interference but the same goes for all of my rgb consoles.

it doesnt show up on my tv.

I believe i need a ground loop isolator on the component cable going to my pexhdcap to fix it.

[Einzelherz]

Really regret tossing my broken Saturn now. I should have scavenged it for hardware. The 10 pin mini din connectors I ordered from the only seller on eBay with them came in and they're all 9 pin

[Voultar]

Really regret tossing my broken Saturn now. I should have scavenged it for hardware. The 10 pin mini din connectors I ordered from the only seller on eBay with them came in and they're all 9 pin

Though a bit off topic, but speaking of the Saturn connector, does anyone have a source for the male mini-din 10P connectors?

[mvsfan]

einzellherz: why you cant use a genesis II cable with the 9 pins instead of a saturn cable to make it work?

[Einzelherz]

einzellherz: why you cant use a genesis II cable with the 9 pins instead of a saturn cable to make it work?

The gen cable has resistors in it. I'll try it out this weekend to see how dim the image is, but I was hoping to use the Saturn because it's a straight through cable like what seems to be needed on the NESRGB.

[RGB32E]

Though a bit off topic, but speaking of the Saturn connector, does anyone have a source for the male mini-din 10P connectors?

I've found 3 options:

1. Buy from Tim: http://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php?crn=20 ... how_detail

2. Pan Pacific MD-10P. Note: The ground sleeve is keyed like a 9MDIN plug, so that must be removed before it will fit in the Saturn

3. Yaesu T9207451 cable assembly (pricy). You can build a breakout box for all signals with this cable assembly, as all pins are wired. I've wired a Yaesu directly to a 8MDIN for the mini and it works well. The cable is shielded too!

[ms06fz]

I put a post on my website about the NESRGB mod, and my experiences installing and using it. It's kind of aimed at people who know nothing about the whole thing, but I don't know, maybe someone here will find it interesting.


NESRGB

All the comparison shots are taken with stock composite vs. NESRGB S-video on my NES front-loader on my HDTV. I think some of the comparisons are pretty good demonstrations of the difference between the stock NES palette and the NESRGB "natural" palette. For instance, these rocks in the background of the Hard Man stage of Rockman 3... I'm hoping to adjust the "natural" palette to be a little closer to the original - though I don't know how difficult it would be to do that without access to the NESRGB source code.

[Fudoh]

good comparison shots, but allow me to say that your HDTV really sucks at RGB

[ApolloBoy]

but allow me to say that your HDTV really sucks at RGB

That's because it's S-video, not RGB.

[ms06fz]

good comparison shots, but allow me to say that your HDTV really sucks at RGB

Well, I'm not on RGB (via component or HDMI conversion) at this point - just S-Video. But I'm pretty happy with S-Video, for now anyway. It's worlds better than composite.
My TV does kind of suck for retro gaming - it does horrible things with composite signals from the NES, even the one from the NESRGB. But via S-Video it's not too shabby, apart from the fact that it "deinterlaces" consecutive 240p frames. It's kind of an old TV at this point anyway (got it in '07, it was my first HDTV)

Out of curiosity, what were you seeing that made you think my TV sucks at RGB? I know the color fidelity's a bit off near color boundaries, for instance. I don't know if that's a limitation of S-Video or an issue with my TV (I don't remember if I get the same kind of effect on my beloved Commodore 1701) - I'm just curious if there's something else I overlooked.