NESRGB board available now

[Pasky]

He's using a PAL RGB cable on a NTSC console. That's the problem.

[mickcris]

Did you check the connections to the multi out inside of the console? Possibly it was hooked up to the wrong pins.

also, he said it was a PAL NES:
"none of them work with the PAL NES with the multi out"

[Ed Oscuro]

He's using a PAL RGB cable on a NTSC console. That's the problem.

Don't think that's a problem.

[Pasky]

You sure? I know they're wired differently.

[Vault94]

I don't think the issue is with the cable. The cable has resistors on there that are not necessary, but at worst they should just darken the picture slightly, not outright prevent it from displaying. And if your NES is being detected, you should at least hear audio (if the game that's inserted is playing audio when it starts up, that is). What happens when you just use the stock normal composite connection on the NES? Does that work?

Here's the NES running through composite to the mini, it runs in white but I think this may be because of the RGB board?

http://i.imgur.com/DsTugUb.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Va6fYKx.jpg

[Vault94]

He's using a PAL RGB cable on a NTSC console. That's the problem.

The console is PAL.

[Vault94]

I'm getting audio through the RGB scart now. Turns out my stupid ass was using the powerpak to test But I'm still not getting video.

[Pasky]

Oh, my mistake.

[darcagn]

Yes, the white issue is normal when you have the NESRGB installed and activated. So now we know that the system is functioning normally at least.

[Vault94]

Hopefully this is the case. Does anyone know any stores that sells multi outs to rgb scart?

Thanks

[lettuce]

I believe the problem is the PAL SNES scart lead bought from retrogamingconsoles, I think the PAL cables have resistors on the R, G and B pins, I'm almost 100% sure I got my cable from there but I got the NTSC version which doesn't have resistors just caps inside the scart.

EDIT: This is the scart cable i use....



As you can see if doesnt have any resistors just capacitors, im almost sure this is the NTSC RGB Scart cable from retrogamecables, http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/supe ... -sale.html

Also im not sure on this and someone can correct me but doesnt PAL SNES uses different AV-port pinouts to NTSC?? This is the pinout used for the multiout socket....

[darcagn]

I believe the problem is the PAL SNES scart lead bought from retrogamingconsoles, I think the PAL cables have resistors on the R, G and B pins, I'm almost 100% sure I got my cable from there but I got the NTSC version which doesn't have resistors just caps inside the scart.

Yes, he already posted the images of his cable and it has resistors, but this should darken the picture, not completely eliminate it, I'm pretty sure.

Also im not sure on this and someone can correct me but doesnt PAL SNES uses different AV-port pinouts to NTSC?? This is the pinout used for the multiout socket....

They use the same pinout except NTSC is C-sync on pin 3 and PAL is +12V on pin 3. Since the cable he purchased is using composite video for sync, this is irrelevant.




But anyway, I can't think of anything else it could be, so purchase this cable instead, and try it out. Even if that turns out not to be the problem, you're supposed to be using this cable anyway, not the PAL one, so it won't be a wasted purchase.

[lettuce]

Also im not sure on this and someone can correct me but doesnt PAL SNES uses different AV-port pinouts to NTSC?? This is the pinout used for the multiout socket....

They use the same pinout except NTSC is C-sync on pin 3 and PAL is +12V on pin 3. Since the cable he purchased is using composite video for sync, this is irrelevant..

Ah that may explain it then, as Vault94's mod is wired for c sync and composite video ('V' pad on NESRGB) is not connected??

Im guessing using the Composite video pad rather than C sync one is a better option for universal use going forward, despite the c sync give a slightly cleaner signal?

[darcagn]

Ah that may explain it then, as Vault94's mod is wired for c sync and composite video ('V' pad on NESRGB) is not connected??

It's a multiout connector, there is no "wiring for c-sync" or "wiring for composite video." The whole point of using a multiout connector is that you have one single connector that has all of the pins one might want! You pick c-sync or c-video for sync by buying a cable that is wired that way

Im guessing using the Composite video pad rather than C sync one is a better option for universal use going forward, despite the c sync give a slightly cleaner signal?

In general that does seem to be the case

[lettuce]

Ah that may explain it then, as Vault94's mod is wired for c sync and composite video ('V' pad on NESRGB) is not connected??

It's a multiout connector, there is no "wiring for c-sync" or "wiring for composite video." The whole point of using a multiout connector is that you have one single connector that has all of the pins one might want! You pick c-sync or c-video for sync by buying a cable that is wired that way

For some reason with the NESRGB, The NTSC RGB scart cable and xrgb-mini (not sure if the xrgb mini is the cause or the ntsc scart lead) if you have both the CS# and V wired up and connected them to their corresponding pins on the multiout then you get an unstable picture or no picture at all, is seem you can only select one or the other, seem like having the 2 connected at the same time interferes with each other

[Vault94]

I don't have a clue what you two are talking about haha, but I've ordered that cable and hopefully it'll work. Thanks for the help. Also the N64 should turn in a few days darcagn, just give me a weight and measurements and I'll send some cash via PayPal for shipping.

Would I need the same NTSC SNES cable that I've just ordered for the N64 that's been modded for RGB? And when I do hook it up to the xRGB mini could I still use the Euro scart to 8 pin or would I need the supplied JAP scart to 8 pin din. Or is there a US scart layout?

Thanks

- Matt

[lettuce]

I don't have a clue what you two are talking about haha, but I've ordered that cable and hopefully it'll work. Thanks for the help. Also the N64 should turn in a few days darcagn, just give me a weight and measurements and I'll send some cash via PayPal for shipping.

Would I need the same NTSC SNES cable that I've just ordered for the N64 that's been modded for RGB? And when I do hook it up to the xRGB mini could I still use the Euro scart to 8 pin or would I need the supplied JAP scart to 8 pin din. Or is there a US scart layout?

Thanks

- Matt

That NTSC scart cable should be fine to use with both and keep the same xrgb mini scart hooked up

[Vault94]

Hey,

So do I chose composite sync and not composite video on this cable. http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/supe ... -sale.html

[lettuce]

Hey,

So do I chose composite sync and not composite video on this cable. http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/supe ... -sale.html

That cable should be wired for both so will be fine.

I wired the nesrgb to use c sync (composite sync) as for some reason when i connected both csync and composite video, i got a scrambled display as soon as i pulled the wire from composite video the display came back and vise verse, just didnt appear to like the 2 connected at the same time and im not sure why. But you will have the same cables and setup as me so will work fine.

darcagn is better versed in the different sync's than i, so maybe he can give a better answer. But i believe the xrgb-mini accepts all type of syncs......infact i think there's very few devices that dont accept csync for a type of video sync?

Im getting a mixture of PAL and NTSC frontloaders in in the next few days, so ill do more testing with them in regards to using the 2 sync together, i was under the impression that it should just work but it appeared not to

[darcagn]

Hey,

So do I chose composite sync and not composite video on this cable. http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/supe ... -sale.html

The N64 I modded for you only has c-video out, so you need to get a multiout cable that does c-video anyway. Get that one and see how it works for you. It will work with both the NESRGB and the N64.

That cable should be wired for both so will be fine.

I wired the nesrgb to use c sync (composite sync) as for some reason when i connected both csync and composite video, i got a scrambled display as soon as i pulled the wire from composite video the display came back and vise verse, just didnt appear to like the 2 connected at the same time and im not sure why. But you will have the same cables and setup as me so will work fine.

This post makes no sense and I'm entirely confused by what you are saying that you did. You bridged the c-video and c-sync pins together??? How do you use 2 syncs together?? And the cable isn't wired for "both," both signals are available on the multiout connector and the cable is either wired to connect the sync pin on the SCART end to the composite video pin or the composite sync pin on the multiout connector.

[Sixfortyfive]

Hey,

So do I chose composite sync and not composite video on this cable. http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/supe ... -sale.html

A Nintendo multi-out typically has pins for composite video (video data plus sync) and composite sync (only sync and nothing else). An RGB cable has to carry a sync signal, and it can obtain this signal from either the c-video pin or the c-sync pin of the console, assuming both pins of the multi-out are fully functional (varies depending on system, region, and mod). And finally, the display or upscaler that you're connecting the system to has to be able to accept the type of sync signal that the cable is sending to it.

If darcagn wired your system so that only c-video is available and not c-sync (as posted above), then you should get an RGB cable that uses c-video for sync.

[lettuce]

This post makes no sense and I'm entirely confused by what you are saying that you did. You bridged the c-video and c-sync pins together??? How do you use 2 syncs together?? And the cable isn't wired for "both," both signals are available on the multiout connector and the cable is either wired to connect the sync pin on the SCART end to the composite video pin or the composite sync pin on the multiout connector.

No, sorry I should explain better. I wired the CS# pad on the NESRGB up to pin 3 on the multiout and the 'V' pad on the NESRG up to pin 9 on the multiout. When doing this I was getting a scrambled display, if I removed the wire from either pin 3 or 9 whilst leaving the other attached then I got a picture, for some reason it didn't like both sync's attached at the same time..... I guess this was related to the scart lead being used which was the NTSC rgb snes lead from retrogamingcables?

What is regareded to be the most universal sync which all cables will use?, c sync (composite sync) or c video (composite video), and which is said to give the least interference? I wad under the impression that c sync was universal but not as clean as c video?

[Jeppen]

Hey Guys!

We bought the NESRGB 2nd batch and are trying to install it into a Japanese Famicom from 1984 for use on a European PAL TV.
Is this possible with the current configuration?
I saw Tim wrote something about an Audio drive amp?

What is this and can we still get it to work without it?

[Vault94]

This post makes no sense and I'm entirely confused by what you are saying that you did. You bridged the c-video and c-sync pins together??? How do you use 2 syncs together?? And the cable isn't wired for "both," both signals are available on the multiout connector and the cable is either wired to connect the sync pin on the SCART end to the composite video pin or the composite sync pin on the multiout connector.

No, sorry I should explain better. I wired the CS# pad on the NESRGB up to pin 3 on the multiout and the 'V' pad on the NESRG up to pin 9 on the multiout. When doing this I was getting a scrambled display, if I removed the wire from either pin 3 or 9 whilst leaving the other attached then I got a picture, for some reason it didn't like both sync's attached at the same time..... I guess this was related to the scart lead being used which was the NTSC rgb snes lead from retrogamingcables?

What is regareded to be the most universal sync which all cables will use?, c sync (composite sync) or c video (composite video), and which is said to give the least interference? I wad under the impression that c sync was universal but not as clean as c video?

So does it output a C sync or C video signal as on the retrogamingcable website it gives you the option for this. I've ordered an c video anyway for the RGB N64 darcagn is doing for me. But I would like to get the NES working.

Thanks

- Matt

[bobrocks95]

Hey Guys!

We bought the NESRGB 2nd batch and are trying to install it into a Japanese Famicom from 1984 for use on a European PAL TV.
Is this possible with the current configuration?
I saw Tim wrote something about an Audio drive amp?

What is this and can we still get it to work without it?

Tim's still working on a replacement PCB for the Famicom that gets rid of the entire back, but you can still install it without that, though it's much more difficult. Instructions are here: http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/installation-famicom/

If you're not too skilled electrically I'd recommend waiting for the replacement board, as I have been doing. That said, if you want to try an installation now, it's far from impossible.

[Jeppen]

Hey Guys!

We bought the NESRGB 2nd batch and are trying to install it into a Japanese Famicom from 1984 for use on a European PAL TV.
Is this possible with the current configuration?
I saw Tim wrote something about an Audio drive amp?

What is this and can we still get it to work without it?

Tim's still working on a replacement PCB for the Famicom that gets rid of the entire back, but you can still install it without that, though it's much more difficult. Instructions are here: http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/installation-famicom/

If you're not too skilled electrically I'd recommend waiting for the replacement board, as I have been doing. That said, if you want to try an installation now, it's far from impossible.

Thanks! At least i know it's possible and will give it a try.

[lettuce]

This post makes no sense and I'm entirely confused by what you are saying that you did. You bridged the c-video and c-sync pins together??? How do you use 2 syncs together?? And the cable isn't wired for "both," both signals are available on the multiout connector and the cable is either wired to connect the sync pin on the SCART end to the composite video pin or the composite sync pin on the multiout connector.

No, sorry I should explain better. I wired the CS# pad on the NESRGB up to pin 3 on the multiout and the 'V' pad on the NESRG up to pin 9 on the multiout. When doing this I was getting a scrambled display, if I removed the wire from either pin 3 or 9 whilst leaving the other attached then I got a picture, for some reason it didn't like both sync's attached at the same time..... I guess this was related to the scart lead being used which was the NTSC rgb snes lead from retrogamingcables?

What is regareded to be the most universal sync which all cables will use?, c sync (composite sync) or c video (composite video), and which is said to give the least interference? I wad under the impression that c sync was universal but not as clean as c video?

So does it output a C sync or C video signal as on the retrogamingcable website it gives you the option for this. I've ordered an c video anyway for the RGB N64 darcagn is doing for me. But I would like to get the NES working.

Thanks

- Matt

Its wired for c sync, due to being more universal than c-video. BUT the wires inside the NES can be swapped over easily as i used connectors if you need to but tried the cable before you do anything.

[Einzelherz]

Ok got it all installed and tested with S-video to make sure I didn't kill it. I've got one question regarding the palette switch. If I'm not using a switch, what combinations can I have just with a single jumper wire?

[darcagn]

No, sorry I should explain better. I wired the CS# pad on the NESRGB up to pin 3 on the multiout and the 'V' pad on the NESRG up to pin 9 on the multiout. When doing this I was getting a scrambled display, if I removed the wire from either pin 3 or 9 whilst leaving the other attached then I got a picture, for some reason it didn't like both sync's attached at the same time..... I guess this was related to the scart lead being used which was the NTSC rgb snes lead from retrogamingcables?

As I have explained multiple times in previous posts to you, the multiout connector provides many different signals (left audio, right audio, composite video, composite sync, chroma, luma, red, green, blue, +5V, +12V, ground). If you're making a console with a multiout connector, you should hook up all of these signals. That's the whole point of a multiout connector. You choose what signals you want to use by purchasing the correct cable.

If you are seeing a problem with scrambled video when the multiout connector has all of its pins connected which it should, then something is wrong, perhaps with your cable. On many (but not all) Nintendo systems that have RGB output, both composite sync and composite video are available on the multiout connector. Perhaps something in your cable is bridging the two pins? I suggest you look into this, because if you happen to plug that cable into a console that has +12V on the pin 3, as many PAL systems do, and if somehow pins 3 and 9 are connected, then you will send 12V to your upscaler or television's composite input, which will probably not end well.

What is regareded to be the most universal sync which all cables will use?, c sync (composite sync) or c video (composite video), and which is said to give the least interference? I wad under the impression that c sync was universal but not as clean as c video?

If you have to ask this question, then you obviously don't understand what c-sync and c-video even are. In which case, I'm sorry, but you really shouldn't be modding systems for other people. You can use three different types of signals for your sync output.

Composite video signal = luminance (brightness) data, chrominance (red/green/blue) data, horizontal sync data, and vertical sync data all in one signal = GOOD
S-Video luma signal = luminance (brightness data), horizontal sync data, and vertical sync data in one signal = BETTER
Composite sync signal = horizontal sync data and vertical sync data in one signal = BEST

If you understood this, you would easily be able to deduce that c-video is the one with potential interference problems, and c-sync being just sync data obviously does not have that problem.

BUT, all of Nintendo's official RGB cables (as far as I know) and 99% of unofficial RGB cables use composite video for sync. Why? Because that is the SCART standard, and you can still use it as a composite cable if your TV has a SCART connector that's composite-only (many european TVs have secondary SCART connectors that are composite-only, not RGB). This has the side effect of causing interference in some situations. In those situations you can use luma, or c-sync (preferred) to correct the problem. But NEVER assume that your customers are going to have a c-sync cable because 99% of cables use c-video for sync!

So does it output a C sync or C video signal as on the retrogamingcable website it gives you the option for this. I've ordered an c video anyway for the RGB N64 darcagn is doing for me. But I would like to get the NES working.

It is supposed to have both signals available. From lettuce's last post, it sounds like he did the mod for you, and if that is the case, he did not do it correctly because he left c-video disconnected. They are both supposed to be connected, and you choose which one you want to use by purchasing the cable that is wired for it.

This is why the NES is not working. The cable you already have should be displaying a picture, albeit a slightly darker picture due to being the wrong PAL cable, but it should be displaying video nonetheless. But it does not work because it uses c-video for sync as most do and lettuce erroneously left it unconnected. He made it completely pointless to use a multiout connector, because with c-video being disconnected, you can't use composite cables, and since 99% of RGB SCART multiout cables use c-video for sync (including Nintendo's own official ones), your NES will not work with most RGB SCART cables. Literally the only official Nintendo cable that will work with that multiout connector is the S-Video cable. It really is not OK that this guy is accepting money and modding consoles for other people. It's one thing to follow an online tutorial to mod a console for yourself, but if you are modding for other people you really need to have a complete understanding of what you are doing! lettuce, why do you think it's OK to be doing work for other people when you yourself are in this thread requesting assistance troubleshooting basic stuff?

Regarding your N64, the N64 model you have (NUS-CPU-04) is missing the c-sync buffering circuit, so it doesn't have c-sync and it's not worthwhile to rebuild that circuit when 99% of cables do not use c-sync anyway. Even though I had already finished your mod yesterday (just haven't gotten around to preparing it for shipping) as a courtesy to you and to prevent any further confusion, I unboxed and re-opened the N64 and I connected the luma signal to the c-sync pin. While it's not exactly c-sync, it's the next best thing and usually using luma fixes any problems for people who have problems with c-video as sync.

Long story short, you can use both c-video and c-sync cables on your N64 now. For your NESRGB, you will need to get a c-sync based cable or make lettuce fix it so both will work. C-sync cables are better on the NESRGB but I recommend making lettuce fix his mistake anyway! At this point, you might want to exchange the c-video based cable for a c-sync based cable. RetroGamingCables should allow you to do this if you pay postage.

[APE992]

Lettuce you aren't remotely qualified to be charging people money for your work unless you want to end up like Drakon mocked from here to Russia and back.