NESRGB board available now

[zakruowrath]

Very interesting, I'll see what I can find, thanks for the help

Sorry if i'm not following this correctly, but if this is about what resistor to pair with an LED then you need the specs of the LED and simply plug them in to ledcalc.com to see what resistor to use.

Well that's a really useful website thank you

I was wondering as long as I find an On Off On and On Off switch could I use rocker switches like this instead as long as they're DC compatible right?

The palette switch is technically "ON ON ON."

Ok makes sense, just wanted to make sure before I bought one to be installed. Now a lot of the switches are listed as AC, will they still work or do I have to get one that is DC or AC/DC?

[CkRtech]

I was wondering as long as I find an On Off On and On Off switch could I use rocker switches like this instead as long as they're DC compatible right?

The palette switch is technically "ON ON ON."

Ok makes sense, just wanted to make sure before I bought one to be installed. Now a lot of the switches are listed as AC, will they still work or do I have to get one that is DC or AC/DC?

I am not the best person to answer this question. What I do know is that due to the nature of what AC is and what DC is, DC is going to need a much "stronger switch" than AC is going to need. Typically the DC voltage rating of a switch is a fraction (1/3, 1/4, 1/5) of what the AC voltage rating would be.

For this particular application, you are dealing with 5V DC and an amperage of < 1? Or maybe like 1.2 amps max pulled? (Someone please smack me if I am guessing incorrectly).

I would assume (and you know what it means when we assume) that a bulk of the switches you find out there are going to be fine for this particular application in regard to voltage and amperage. So if you take even 10% of a switch rated for 120 VAC, you get 12 VDC - well over the 5V max you should be pulling from the NES's voltage regulator and using throughout the system.

That said, I believe amps is what you would have to worry about in this case, although I *think* the draw is quite small (mA range).

Could someone else jump in on this?

[keropi]

well I am dissapointed atm.

Got the 2nd Famicom AV , installed the 2nd NESRGB and it behaves exactly the same on LG-LCD screens.
1st Famicom is HVCN-CPU-02 the new one is -01 . Swapped PPUs, swapped NESRGBs , used the ppu in the round socket just in case there is a bad connection but the problem remains the same. CRT screens are OK, LG-LCD ones crap out.



I can see that there is a fault in the 1st NESRGB/Famicom, but after swapping mobos/nergbs/ppus and getting the same result I am bummed.

Has anyone here tried his setup with an LG screen?

[viletim]

The information is correct. Whether you choose to use C-sync or composite video, you should only ever connect it to the video pin. Remember that the SCART leads are from PAL land and the PAL version of the connector has the 12V SCART switching voltage (which real Nintendo cables use!). If you connect sync to this pin the TV will go crazy.

Hi Tim. Actually, if I read things correctly, during the 8-bit era, only the famicom AV had that port. Majority (if not all) of these systems were NTSC/Japan, not PAL. It wasn't until the SNES+ that that pin had dual purpose (C-SYNC vs 12V in PAL-world).

It's the other way around. The revised 8 bit consoles (Fami AV/NES2) came out a couple of years after the SNES. Nintendo intentionally broke AV cable compatibility - even an ordinary composite lead from a PAL console can't be used on a NTSC console due to the extra resistor inside.

Fix it or not, figured I'd help you with some support issues that you might face in the future due to this issue.

I'll make a note of it. I'll have to write more on the topic at some point as are many different cables there that plug into this port with varied degrees of compatibility.

zakruowrath,
Don't worry about the current/voltage rating of the switch. It's not important.

keropi,
Just to confirm - Does the video look fine if you set the NESRGB board off and connect the console with to the original composite video signal?

[keropi]

yes, original composite looks fine in both consoles... I didn't even touch the 2nd mobo except for removing the PPU and installing the socket and replacing that 220uf cap with a new bended one so the nesrgb fits... so I just remove the palette connection and use an original AV cable that gives a picture like normal.

I also have a USB BLASTER now, do you think that I could check the 1.3 POF?
as a sidenote it is unclear how to update the nesrgb, do I do it when the board is powered on the famicom? or do I provide my own external 3.3v source?

[viletim]

I also have a USB BLASTER now, do you think that I could check the 1.3 POF?
as a sidenote it is unclear how to update the nesrgb, do I do it when the board is powered on the famicom? or do I provide my own external 3.3v source?

Connect the programmer then switch on the Famicom and program it while it's running.



The only other thing I can think of is to bypass the the sync separator on the NESRGB and use an LM1881 instead. If you have one handy build up this circuit (the bottom line is ground - rush job):


Then cut the trace on the NESRGB board which has the red mark. Connect the original video signal to the input of the LM1881 circuit and connect the C-Sync output to the CS# pin on the NESRGB (which in now an input). Use the V or Y signal for sync and see if it helps.

[keropi]

thanks for the update info, I updated but did not see a difference in my issue...
Will try the LM1881 option when I get some tomorrow... I hope it solves the problem


edit: btw, what should I do with the board that I updated to 1.3 and it has the old SRAM chip installed? downgrade to 1.0? leave it at 1.3?
also by "original video signal" you mean composite from the famicom mobo? or the PPUV pin?

[Elrinth]

I think eightbitminiboss's installation should be the recommended for people with Sharp Twin Famicoms. Using the DIN output is brilliant and therefore no modifications are needed for the case!
Being able to use a Neo Geo RGB cable is just awesome. Did you have to do any modifications besides dragging that white cable for audio?
Another question regarding this, which scart output do you have on your Neo Geo cable? Europe output? I saw these cables both on ebay and on some retrocables website. I have a RGB-modded pc-engine which has also din connector, would that same cable be usable on this? it's outputting japanese scart tho. I will be using this with the framemeister ofc.

[bdlou]

thanks for the update info, I updated but did not see a difference in my issue...
Will try the LM1881 option when I get some tomorrow... I hope it solves the problem


edit: btw, what should I do with the board that I updated to 1.3 and it has the old SRAM chip installed? downgrade to 1.0? leave it at 1.3?
also by "original video signal" you mean composite from the famicom mobo? or the PPUV pin?

Apologies if I missed this before, but what device are you hooking your RGB to between your Famicom and your TV?

[keropi]

Apologies if I missed this before, but what device are you hooking your RGB to between your Famicom and your TV?

Nothing, in Greece (and EU in general) RGB input is so common all sets have it. Even the cheapest lcd (or crt in previous years) has a RGB input (with varying quality ofcourse).
The issue I am having only happens to LG lcd tv sets. It is specific to the nesrgb/famicom though, never saw it in other consoles and I do own lots of them...

[leonk]

Apologies if I missed this before, but what device are you hooking your RGB to between your Famicom and your TV?

Nothing, in Greece (and EU in general) RGB input is so common all sets have it. Even the cheapest lcd (or crt in previous years) has a RGB input (with varying quality ofcourse).
The issue I am having only happens to LG lcd tv sets. It is specific to the nesrgb/famicom though, never saw it in other consoles and I do own lots of them...

There's so many messages going back and forth, sorry if you already answered this, but here's a technique I use to validate a good NES RGB install.

- Take a standard composite plug
- wire center post to V on NESRGB
- wire ground to GND on NESRGB
- plug to Yellow plug on your TV

Do you get clean video with no problems? If the answer is YES, the the problem is between the NESRGB and your TV. If the answer is NO, then the problem is between the NES and the NESRGB. The NESRGB generates composite signal/V from RGB/downstream, so all connections must be perfect for V to give clean signal.

If V shows up fine on your LG TV, then the problem can only be in one of these:

- bad SCART cable
- bad wiring between NESRGB and port in NES (I had this happen to me once! The blue color was missing! Got pinout backwards)
- bad TV - some companies might be cutting corners in trying to make cheaper and cheaper TV's. Maybe your TV can't handle RGB signal correctly?

[keropi]

@leonk

the problem happens with LG lcd sets , at least the 3 I tested that I own (all from different time periods) exhibit this.
Composite either stock or nesrgb works fine. But when you combine either one with RGB signals from nesrgb you get the flickering upper part in the screen undes special circumstances (light blue background). With stock composite - used as rgb sync - things are better but not perfect.
- I have already tested with Tim's RGB cable and my own hacked video-port one.
- It happens with 2 famicom AV consoles and with the 2 nesrgb boards that I have
- several crt tvs and a samsung lcd that I tested are completely fine

I doubt it's a case of "bad tv" , because it happens with 3 different models. LG being picky? I think so, yes. You can consider this "bad" if you like but these sets are so common in EU that this needs to be fixed IMHO or at least a workaround is found.
Especially the 37" screen that I use for gaming (37LH4000) is fine with all 8/16/32bit sega/nintendo consoles, pce, PS1/2 and even home computers like the amiga and atari ones.
Everything listed above is RGB and I haven't noticed any problem until now. It's a 4-5 years old tv set atm, way before the rgb scart cost-cutting was introduced. I got it for ~650eur IIRC.
You can see my posts in the previous ~2 or so pages for pics of my installation/cables, maybe you can spot something fishy.

I really hope the LM1881 does the trick tomorrow, I'll update once I tested it.

[eightbitminiboss]

I think eightbitminiboss's installation should be the recommended for people with Sharp Twin Famicoms. Using the DIN output is brilliant and therefore no modifications are needed for the case!
Being able to use a Neo Geo RGB cable is just awesome. Did you have to do any modifications besides dragging that white cable for audio?
Another question regarding this, which scart output do you have on your Neo Geo cable? Europe output? I saw these cables both on ebay and on some retrocables website. I have a RGB-modded pc-engine which has also din connector, would that same cable be usable on this? it's outputting japanese scart tho. I will be using this with the framemeister ofc.

Wish I could take credit for the idea, ccovell in this thread suggested it. I just acted on it. The stock DIN connector itself is missing pins and needs to be replaced with a proper fully pinned one but they are easily available and the board fortunately has all the holes to mount it with ease.

The extent of the install is the following:

Replacing the DIN connector with standard 8-pin DIN Connector (some manufacturers switch up the 8 pin on where it goes, so be sure to have the schematic for it or trace it)

Cutting the traces (carefully!) on the Twin's power board



I wired it up this way the placement matches the picture above (as long as your DIN connector is pinned the same way for pin 8, if different make changes as needed)

Code: Select all

Bottom of Twin Famicom RF DIN connector:

3        2        1
o        o        o
    5         4
    o         o
7        8        6
o        o        o

Pins 5 and 8 are already marked on the PCB. (ccovell's is like this. Mine didn't have them marked)

Pin connection instructions:
1 - to AUD (Pulled from RCA jack on the right)
2 - to GND
3 - to Sync of choice (CSYNC, Luma or Composite Video)
4 - +5 Volts (Thanks vigormortis for reminding that I'm dumb)
5 - Cut PCB trace, then wire to Green
6 - Cut traces on both sides, then wire to Red
7 - Cut
8 - Cut, then to Blue

I used a Euro SCART pinned Neo-Geo Cable from Retro-Accessories. I had a similar cable from retro gaming cables but it introduced a heinous audio buzz. A PC engine SCART cable may not work as I think there's an amp involved when it comes to getting RGB out of a PC Engine. Works all good on my XRGB-Mini (though I had to modify my Bandridge SCART switch to not pass power to the Famicom from other consoles).

[leonk]

@leonk

the problem happens with LG lcd sets , at least the 3 I tested that I own (all from different time periods) exhibit this.
Composite either stock or nesrgb works fine. But when you combine either one with RGB signals from nesrgb you get the flickering upper part in the screen undes special circumstances (light blue background). With stock composite - used as rgb sync - things are better but not perfect.

I'm confused.. are you in Greece? According to your pics you have the NESRGB set for NTSC but isn't your TV PAL?

[keropi]

Yes I am in Greece. PAL land.
The Famicom AV has a NTSC PPU though, that's why the NESRGB is set to NTSC. My tvs (both crt and lcd) support both NTSC U/J just fine with color and everything. Stock AV famicoms work fine (and av-modded old red/white famicoms), my CDX works fine, even my SNES 1CHIP with ikari01's 50/60hz switch works fine (that uses a 2nd ntsc oscillator to make the snes output a real ntsc signal, not pal60 AFAIK)

[game-tech.us]

I just finished a front loader NES. It does have a 1.5 Amp 7805 and new caps.
I let it run for over 40 minutes with a powerpak and then put the thermal camera on it.
It registered about 125 degrees F and I was still able to touch the heat sink without being burned.
I know some ppl were worried that it wasn't big enough, but I think it's fine.

[nesfreak]

@leonk

the problem happens with LG lcd sets , at least the 3 I tested that I own (all from different time periods) exhibit this.
Composite either stock or nesrgb works fine. But when you combine either one with RGB signals from nesrgb you get the flickering upper part in the screen undes special circumstances (light blue background). With stock composite - used as rgb sync - things are better but not perfect.
- I have already tested with Tim's RGB cable and my own hacked video-port one.
- It happens with 2 famicom AV consoles and with the 2 nesrgb boards that I have
- several crt tvs and a samsung lcd that I tested are completely fine

I doubt it's a case of "bad tv" , because it happens with 3 different models. LG being picky? I think so, yes. You can consider this "bad" if you like but these sets are so common in EU that this needs to be fixed IMHO or at least a workaround is found.
Especially the 37" screen that I use for gaming (37LH4000) is fine with all 8/16/32bit sega/nintendo consoles, pce, PS1/2 and even home computers like the amiga and atari ones.
Everything listed above is RGB and I haven't noticed any problem until now. It's a 4-5 years old tv set atm, way before the rgb scart cost-cutting was introduced. I got it for ~650eur IIRC.
You can see my posts in the previous ~2 or so pages for pics of my installation/cables, maybe you can spot something fishy.

I really hope the LM1881 does the trick tomorrow, I'll update once I tested it.

Just tried the AV Famicom with NESRGB for the first time on my Samsung LE40A656, since you saying its not a case of "bad tv", I had no problems at all.
Mind you that this TV is from 2008 also.

Im sorry, but it most probobly is a LG problem, try googling "LG LCD RGB Problem", lots of problems with sync it seems.

[keropi]

^ I did google it and saw only generic and completely irrelevant results, do you have any particular result(s) for that claim?

[nesfreak]

Ill give it a go on our LG 50" Plasma tomorrow, I don't expect it to work since I have had other people have problems with LG tv-sets.

I do however have a sync strike, so I can test with that if it fails, and we can then agree that it is a sync problem no?

EDIT: Some more info here also http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc ... d-tv-8572/
Not to uncommon of a problem.

[keropi]

that would be nice , just try and test either gimmick! or megaman4 since the issue is visible almost immediately upon booting the game...
I'll do the LM1881 test tomorrow as well... I hope it works

I can't say for sure if it's purely a sync problem... even the stock composite signal from the famicom-av mobo doesn't work correctly as a sync signal for the nesrgb but works perfect as a stand-alone signal. Maybe it's a combination of timings. Maybe it just happens on LG sets (or some of them that I am unlucky enough to own) because they are less forgiving.
Only Tim with such a tv set and his equipment can say for sure and try to fix or compensate it for this specific use...

[Kyle]

I got two modded top loaders from Jason at game-tech.us. I can't recommend him highly enough. Great work, communication, videos with progress, all around nice guy. He probably has a mountain of orders for these but there you go.

[leonk]

Keropi: taking the image flicker out, how do you like the image quality on that LG? I can't imagine the scalar inside the TV would make the image look very good. Wouldn't most people that spent this kind of money on a 30+ year old system use it on original CRT or use pro scalar (xrgb) which will probably solve all your problems?

I know it's not the solution you want to hear it ultimately be the direction you'd want to pursuit.

[ccovell]

The only other thing I can think of is to bypass the the sync separator on the NESRGB and use an LM1881 instead. If you have one handy build up this circuit (the bottom line is ground - rush job):

Sorry to butt in, but is that odd pin numbering (1,3,5,7) common in PCB layout programs? Someone using an LM1881 for the first time might think the pins are numbered that way going around the DIP package.

Here's the physical pin numbering & layout as you'd commonly see it:

( http://www.gamesx.com/misctech/lm1881.htm )

[opt2not]

I got two modded top loaders from Jason at game-tech.us. I can't recommend him highly enough. Great work, communication, videos with progress, all around nice guy. He probably has a mountain of orders for these but there you go.

Yeah, I feel bad for giving him a bit of sass earlier in this thread. He does seem like a nice dude, and was willing to help me when I botched my install. I have no problems admitting I was wrong.


On another note: Can one of you guys with a successful install post comparison pictures of the different palette selections? There are a bunch of install pics here, and some running on screens, but I can't seem to find a side-by-side comparison of the palettes. Just pick a pretty looking game and show off the palettes if one of you wouldn't mind...(I think these types of pics would be good to throw up on Tim's site too).
Thanks

[leonk]

Sometimes having choice is a BAD thing (think Chinese restaurant with menu items from 1-99). Also, from Jason's videos, it seems that just because one game looks best with one palette doesn't mean the next game will look best with the same choice. It's a very subjective matter.

Has anyone build that circuit that uses the reset button to select palette? Seems very interesting.

[evil_ash_xero]

I got two modded top loaders from Jason at game-tech.us. I can't recommend him highly enough. Great work, communication, videos with progress, all around nice guy. He probably has a mountain of orders for these but there you go.

Yeah, I feel bad for giving him a bit of sass earlier in this thread. He does seem like a nice dude, and was willing to help me when I botched my install. I have no problems admitting I was wrong.


On another note: Can one of you guys with a successful install post comparison pictures of the different palette selections? There are a bunch of install pics here, and some running on screens, but I can't seem to find a side-by-side comparison of the palettes. Just pick a pretty looking game and show off the palettes if one of you wouldn't mind...(I think these types of pics would be good to throw up on Tim's site too).
Thanks

He does really solid work. I keep sending him stuff.

[opt2not]

Sometimes having choice is a BAD thing (think Chinese restaurant with menu items from 1-99). Also, from Jason's videos, it seems that just because one game looks best with one palette doesn't mean the next game will look best with the same choice. It's a very subjective matter.

Yeah, I agree. Just curious to see how they look side-by-side. I know I'm going to be sticking to the proper original palette...

[Kyle]

Improved looks like setting your tv to vivid. It makes the color pop. I'm digging it on the games I've tried so far. I'll probably leave it as default unless it causes glitches.

[leonk]

Improved looks like setting your tv to vivid. It makes the color pop. I'm digging it on the games I've tried so far. I'll probably leave it as default unless it causes glitches.

You know vivid was created to just sell TVs on the show floor. The colors are nowhere near artistic correctness. Some reviewers also call this torch-mode. Hope that's not what you have your TV set to.

[ApolloBoy]

Improved looks like setting your tv to vivid. It makes the color pop. I'm digging it on the games I've tried so far. I'll probably leave it as default unless it causes glitches.

I really like the "Improved" palette, that's what I set for my NESRGB. It really does make the colors stand out but at the same time it doesn't change them as drastically as the PlayChoice PPU does.