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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:20 pm 


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Joined: 21 May 2013
Posts: 312
Ok, I didnt know you had performed an audio mod as well.

I'm not sure what audio mod guide your following, but that really doesn't look right :? The AV Famicom doesn't need a mod for expansion audio if thats what you meant? It also looks like you have bridged both audio pins on the MULTI OUT? Has the original audio signal to the MULTI OUT been disconnected? Also one of the audio lines is running right underneath and across all your video wires. I would suggest removing all the audio wires and bridges and testing just the video output.

Its not clear from the photos, but how long are your video wires? They should be as short and direct as possible. Also, please use the CSYNC output provided from the NESRGB board, not the video encoder.

Finally (and I mean this in the nicest possible way) some of the solder joints dont look too great. In particular I can see stray wire strands on a number of joints, for example the NESRGB's Red output wire.


Last edited by Link83 on Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:06 pm 



Joined: 21 May 2016
Posts: 38
I completely agree with everything you said.

I disconnected everything a bunch of times and did it properly and direct a few times. I know the soldering looks really and right now but that’s from moving stuff over and over.

I found the audio mod in this thread I believe but I just completely removed it. If I recall correctly, there is already a bridge via on the multiout for audio.

I ordered a cap kit and 2a regulator.

I’ll update once I do this.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:21 pm 


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Posts: 312
What is the purpose of the audio mod? Can you link to the post in this thread?

Yes the two audio pins are linked on the AV Famicom's MULT OUT port, but not in the same way as your audio mod with two different sources.

I take it removing all the audio wires, resistors and bridges completely (Not just disconnecting them) made no difference?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:31 pm 



Joined: 21 May 2016
Posts: 38
I think it was the one using 47k resistors? I can’t recall. Yes I completely removed it. Which one do you recommend? I’d like one that uses pin 46 expansion audio.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:35 pm 


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Posts: 312
Icelvlan wrote:
I think it was the one using 47k resistors? I can’t recall. Yes I completely removed it. Which one do you recommend? I’d like one that uses pin 46 expansion audio.

I'm not quite sure what you mean...expansion audio is already connected on the AV Famicom as stock, you dont need any mods unless your trying to tweak the audio mixing circuit.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:40 pm 



Joined: 21 May 2016
Posts: 38
Regardless I connected it back stock. :)

I’m just hoping the cap kit fixes it all.

Really strange issues.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:52 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 640
It's been several years since I modded my toploader, but recently it has come to my attention that I've just been grabbing audio directly from the motherboard (I think from where it would have connected to the RF modulator on the underside of the board) rather than running it through the NESRGB. I'm assuming this would explain why the audio is so quiet by comparison to every other system, but there isn't really any information about it on Tim's site or anywhere, really. From what I gather, I just need to connect up to CPU pins 1 and 2, but do I also need to cut any traces? It's been so long that I'm not really sure where I got the information for the method I'm using from anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:01 am 



Joined: 17 Apr 2019
Posts: 55
Location: Illinois, United States
Hey guys I'm thinking about having my nes rgb modded but I don't have soldering skills/tools so I am planning on using an install service to do it for me. I figured I would either go through retrofixes or Voultar, any reason to choose one over the other or are they both equally reliable (I'm in the US if that matters)? I have a component/hd retrovision setup so I will need the multi-out port on my front loader. What extras do you guys recommend (blinking light win, audio enhancements, palettes, ect)? Any advice is welcome!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:16 pm 


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Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 544
Location: USA
I have an entire video series on Youtube where I teach people just like you to take control of their soldering tools to perform the mods of their dreams.


Maybe if you're interested in learning about some of this stuff, give those a view.

I'd personally recommend the NERGB's audio circuit w/ expansion audio, if it's actually done properly by your installer.

The SNES multi-out is mandatory for HD Rectalvision compatibility. The_Real_Phoenix has created a wonderful, open-source multi-out that I've been evaluating and I think it's fantastic. https://twitter.com/Voultar/status/1233162015767715841

I could care less if you choose me or not, frankly. My advice to you is to do your research, regardless of who you choose.

Good luck!
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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:41 pm 



Joined: 17 Apr 2019
Posts: 55
Location: Illinois, United States
Voultar wrote:
I have an entire video series on Youtube where I teach people just like you to take control of their soldering tools to perform the mods of their dreams.


Maybe if you're interested in learning about some of this stuff, give those a view.

I'd personally recommend the NERGB's audio circuit w/ expansion audio, if it's actually done properly by your installer.

The SNES multi-out is mandatory for HD Rectalvision compatibility. The_Real_Phoenix has created a wonderful, open-source multi-out that I've been evaluating and I think it's fantastic. https://twitter.com/Voultar/status/1233162015767715841

I could care less if you choose me or not, frankly. My advice to you is to do your research, regardless of who you choose.

Good luck!


Thanks for the info Voultar, I've heard very good things about you from the community! I need to think some things over but if I do decide to have my nes modded I will let you know!


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:42 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 640
thebigcheese wrote:
It's been several years since I modded my toploader, but recently it has come to my attention that I've just been grabbing audio directly from the motherboard (I think from where it would have connected to the RF modulator on the underside of the board) rather than running it through the NESRGB. I'm assuming this would explain why the audio is so quiet by comparison to every other system, but there isn't really any information about it on Tim's site or anywhere, really. From what I gather, I just need to connect up to CPU pins 1 and 2, but do I also need to cut any traces? It's been so long that I'm not really sure where I got the information for the method I'm using from anymore.


Thinking it would be better to do so, I lifted pins 1 and 2 and connected them directly to the NESRGB audio inputs, but now I get no sound. Do those have to stay connected, then? Is there somewhere else I might need to disconnect instead?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:53 am 



Joined: 02 Mar 2020
Posts: 6
I finally bought a NESRGB from Tim about two months ago and finally got around to installing it about 2 weeks ago. I have a Retro Access scart cable to my OSSC, and it looks great. Except for one somewhat minor but annoying issue. The top couple of lines appear to be blurry. Its not noticeable on all games, but is on others. Looking at it using the 240p test program with the convergence grid clearly shows it, and you can see it on some other test patterns too. It actually looks like it's constantly moving/shifting.

I've played around with OSSC settings, and can't seem to get any change in it. None of my other RGB consoles using my OSSC and cables from Retro Access (Genesis, TG16, Jag, DC) seem to exhibit this behavior. Tried two different TVs, although both are Samsung 4k sets, so that may not rule out something specific to the TV. I also flashed it with the latest 2.2 firmware, just in case it happened to ship with an older version. But the issue still occurred after flashing as well.

Any ideas what might be going on here?

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:03 am 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 640
Does the NESRGB come with dejitter these days? If not, then that's normal. NES just does that unless you install the dejitter mods. Back in ye olden days, that would've been hidden off screen, so you wouldn't have noticed.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:36 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2020
Posts: 6
This is the hardware version 2 that should have the dejitter built in.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:02 pm 


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thebigcheese wrote:
Thinking it would be better to do so, I lifted pins 1 and 2 and connected them directly to the NESRGB audio inputs, but now I get no sound. Do those have to stay connected, then? Is there somewhere else I might need to disconnect instead?


If you're using a custom AV out, you don't need to disconnect the original audio at all. Just connect up CPU pin 1 & 2 to the pads on the NESRGB, then connect your AV connector to the audio output on the NESRGB instead of wherever you were grabbing it previously.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:53 pm 



Joined: 21 Aug 2016
Posts: 640
Ah, thanks! That's what I have done and it seemed to be fine, but everyone seems to love removing things for mods these days, so I wanted to make sure there wasn't some other secret to it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:34 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 58
nick3092 wrote:
I finally bought a NESRGB from Tim about two months ago and finally got around to installing it about 2 weeks ago. I have a Retro Access scart cable to my OSSC, and it looks great. Except for one somewhat minor but annoying issue. The top couple of lines appear to be blurry. Its not noticeable on all games, but is on others. Looking at it using the 240p test program with the convergence grid clearly shows it, and you can see it on some other test patterns too. It actually looks like it's constantly moving/shifting.

I've played around with OSSC settings, and can't seem to get any change in it. None of my other RGB consoles using my OSSC and cables from Retro Access (Genesis, TG16, Jag, DC) seem to exhibit this behavior. Tried two different TVs, although both are Samsung 4k sets, so that may not rule out something specific to the TV. I also flashed it with the latest 2.2 firmware, just in case it happened to ship with an older version. But the issue still occurred after flashing as well.

Any ideas what might be going on here?

Thanks!

I did an NESRGB 2.0 install in my AV Famicom recently and have noticed the same thing. I don't really care about the visual effect of the jittery top lines, but more concerning is that it doesn't seem to be playing nicely with my capture card through the OSSC. It's having the same sync dropouts that I got with my SNES before installing the dejitter mod. Not sure what's going on with that, since all my other consoles work just fine with my capture card at line5x. Also, unless I increase the OSSC's H-sync tolerance, the top several lines will sometimes start blinking on and off, but this only happens occasionally and hard resetting the console corrects it. This is with a RGC Packapunch c-sync cable, for reference.

I have a USB Blaster on the way and was planning to test both 2.0/2.1 and 2.2 firmwares to see if the "sync correction" Tim mentions on his site has something to do with it.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:51 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2020
Posts: 6
Sirotaca wrote:
I did an NESRGB 2.0 install in my AV Famicom recently and have noticed the same thing. I don't really care about the visual effect of the jittery top lines, but more concerning is that it doesn't seem to be playing nicely with my capture card through the OSSC. It's having the same sync dropouts that I got with my SNES before installing the dejitter mod. Not sure what's going on with that, since all my other consoles work just fine with my capture card at line5x. Also, unless I increase the OSSC's H-sync tolerance, the top several lines will sometimes start blinking on and off, but this only happens occasionally and hard resetting the console corrects it. This is with a RGC Packapunch c-sync cable, for reference.

I have a USB Blaster on the way and was planning to test both 2.0/2.1 and 2.2 firmwares to see if the "sync correction" Tim mentions on his site has something to do with it.


I have a blaster, and the thought did cross my mind. I guess I could try the older firmware, maybe tonight.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:02 pm 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 164
I want to use the Audio Amp on the NES RGB board on my Famicom AV but I have a question. Do I need to solder two wires to the Audio Output, one going to pin 11 and the other to pin 12 of the Multi-out?


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:53 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2020
Posts: 6
nick3092 wrote:
Sirotaca wrote:
I did an NESRGB 2.0 install in my AV Famicom recently and have noticed the same thing. I don't really care about the visual effect of the jittery top lines, but more concerning is that it doesn't seem to be playing nicely with my capture card through the OSSC. It's having the same sync dropouts that I got with my SNES before installing the dejitter mod. Not sure what's going on with that, since all my other consoles work just fine with my capture card at line5x. Also, unless I increase the OSSC's H-sync tolerance, the top several lines will sometimes start blinking on and off, but this only happens occasionally and hard resetting the console corrects it. This is with a RGC Packapunch c-sync cable, for reference.

I have a USB Blaster on the way and was planning to test both 2.0/2.1 and 2.2 firmwares to see if the "sync correction" Tim mentions on his site has something to do with it.


I have a blaster, and the thought did cross my mind. I guess I could try the older firmware, maybe tonight.


I flashed 2.1, didn't see any change good or bad. So I just went back to 2.2.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:50 am 


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H6rdc0re wrote:
I want to use the Audio Amp on the NES RGB board on my Famicom AV but I have a question. Do I need to solder two wires to the Audio Output, one going to pin 11 and the other to pin 12 of the Multi-out?

You don't, since those pins are already connected together on the motherboard. All you would need to do is cut the existing trace going to those pins on the multiout so the stock audio circuit is cut off.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:10 pm 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 58
nick3092 wrote:
I flashed 2.1, didn't see any change good or bad. So I just went back to 2.2.

I tried it as well, no change for me either. I wonder what the difference is between the V2 NESRGB and a dejittered SNES that makes them behave differently with my setup.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:29 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2020
Posts: 6
Tim had posted an experimental
V2.3 that disabled the dejitter completely. For grins I flashed it. I didn't see any difference good or bad either way. Went back to 2.2 to be safe.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:45 pm 


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Sirotaca wrote:
I tried it as well, no change for me either. I wonder what the difference is between the V2 NESRGB and a dejittered SNES that makes them behave differently with my setup.



I think you would want to put a dejitter mod on there in addition to your nesrgb. I don't use one because I don't use an OSSC or an OLED screen with finicky sync, but I believe that what bigcheese says is correct, you're going to see that through an OSSC unless you do the dejitter mod.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:15 pm 



Joined: 02 Mar 2020
Posts: 6
vol.2 wrote:
Sirotaca wrote:
I tried it as well, no change for me either. I wonder what the difference is between the V2 NESRGB and a dejittered SNES that makes them behave differently with my setup.



I think you would want to put a dejitter mod on there in addition to your nesrgb. I don't use one because I don't use an OSSC or an OLED screen with finicky sync, but I believe that what bigcheese says is correct, you're going to see that through an OSSC unless you do the dejitter mod.


The v2 NESRGB has dejitter built in, you don't need an additional mod.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:56 pm 



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 561
I had a v1.4 NESRGB installed into my NTSC frontloader in 2018 along with the palette switch. How complicated is it to install the dejitter board while still keeping the RGB and switch active? Now that x2 is released that already has the dejitter onboard, I can't find instructions for the old install. I'm already buying a dejitter for my SNES, so I'd like to understand this before I do so I can buy both.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:30 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 1056
Has anyone else noticed unbalanced audio with a NESRGB + Tim's Power/Audio Board on a Famicom (original non-FF HVC-001) when using an FDS RAM adapter?

Sorry if this has been discussed multiple times before, but I could only find reference to balance issues and fixes on AV Famicom and NES, but not original Famicom. Tim's Power/Audio board has a switch (placed where the original RF channel switch was located), with an option to compensate for low cartridge audio levels on original Everdrives. I've set it on the position for real cartridges, and indeed cartridges with special audio chips (VRC6, VRC7, etc.) do sound balanced. Interestingly, I also noticed that the Power/Audio board makes the Famicom have the same audio balance as an AV Famicom, as confirmed by the "AV Famicom" preset on the Everdrive Pro resulting in correct balance.

When it comes to FDS games running from a real FDS RAM adapter, however, the FDS audio is significantly louder than the internal audio. On another Famicom (same motherboard rev) with NESRGB but no Power/Audio board, audio is balanced for everything (and requires the "Original Famicom" preset on the Everdrive Pro). First I'd like to confirm if anyone else has noticed it. I'm guessing it's not something that can be fixed on Tim's board, without altering balance for non-FDS expansion audio, but I though it's worth bringing up in case it hasn't been a known issue.

This also reminds me that AV Famicom's never were able to have proper FDS audio balance using real hardware, which is a must for purists, as no emulation of FDS audio up to this day (incl. Everdrive, MiSTer core, Kevtris' core, etc.) has achieved full accuracy for it. Now I'm wondering if Tim used the AV Famicom as reference when balancing audio for the Power/Audio board. This would make sense given the findings mentioned above.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:01 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2020
Posts: 7
I have a US Toploader that I am RGB modding. The only hitch I have run into is that the instructions on the site are for an AV Famicom with a multi out. Following this page's guide:
https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/installation-famicomav/

Is there a 2.0 updated guide or one for the US Toploader?

I got the kit with the SCART cable included that comes from the RGB-DIN connector, as well as an S-Video and 3.5mm audio jack connector.

I was just wondering if there are any things I should be aware of because this is a version RGB20 board, and I see some conflicting information on the etim site... as well as having the US system without the multi-out.

Jumper question: The instructions say to short J3 to "Provide Power to the NESRGB" and jumper J5 for NTSC. But this page has totally different information, ( https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/NESRGB-Pinout.pdf ) saying to jump J6 for csync and other jumpers for selecting PPU type and selecting NTSC or PAL on different jumpers. I am just confused and want to get the jumpers right plus I want to use csync as well.

Audio question: I skimmed the NESRGB thread and saw that people have audio issues and need to wire up resistors and capacitors to the cpu or cardtridge pins and what-not for audio. There is a single "A" pad on the NESRGB motherboard, do I wire that up with a ground for the 3.5mm jack or do I need to do something else?

Output question: Can I wire up S-video and RGB-DIN connector both and run them at the same time? I was only planning on wiring up the S-Video for if I ever had to use it for some reason and was wondering the limitations. Also the little soldering board that the DIN goes into has a "V" where I would assume the CSync should go to and not "composite video" (the "V" on the NESRGB mobo). Do they both output at the same time, and is doing that safe? In case I used S-Video for capture or something.

I am SO SORRY for all the questions I just want to put this together right the first time, the instructions are great on Tim's site but just don't apply to my system exactly and I just had these questions about it. I would really appreciate any help.


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:16 pm 


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I haven't done NESRGB in a top loader (only an AV famicom) but I'll try to answer as best I can here...

crowsnest wrote:
Jumper question: The instructions say to short J3 to "Provide Power to the NESRGB" and jumper J5 for NTSC. But this page has totally different information, ( https://etim.net.au/nesrgb/NESRGB-Pinout.pdf ) saying to jump J6 for csync and other jumpers for selecting PPU type and selecting NTSC or PAL on different jumpers. I am just confused and want to get the jumpers right plus I want to use csync as well.

The information in your two links is not different? J8 toggles "TTL" csync, if you are using a straight wire for csync, it should be shorted. J3 tells the NESRGB that power is to be taken from the PPU connection and not from an additional power board.. the top loader has a similar layout to the AV Famicom so should be fine to do this. J5 is shorted as part of the NTSC configuration.

crowsnest wrote:
Audio question: I skimmed the NESRGB thread and saw that people have audio issues and need to wire up resistors and capacitors to the cpu or cardtridge pins and what-not for audio. There is a single "A" pad on the NESRGB motherboard, do I wire that up with a ground for the 3.5mm jack or do I need to do something else?

Most of what you've seen is for wiring up expansion audio, which is where additional audio is generated on the cartridge and mixed into the output. Regular audio comes from the CPU, pins 1 and 2. These need to be connected to the A and B pads on the NESRGB, and mono audio comes from the O (output) pad. I'm not experienced with your output jack but I imagine you need to wire up O to both L and R channels of the jack, and to GND of course.

crowsnest wrote:
Output question: Can I wire up S-video and RGB-DIN connector both and run them at the same time? I was only planning on wiring up the S-Video for if I ever had to use it for some reason and was wondering the limitations. Also the little soldering board that the DIN goes into has a "V" where I would assume the CSync should go to and not "composite video" (the "V" on the NESRGB mobo). Do they both output at the same time, and is doing that safe? In case I used S-Video for capture or something.

I feel like this should work fine. Maybe someone else can chime in here though..


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 Post subject: Re: NESRGB board available now
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:41 pm 



Joined: 04 Jun 2020
Posts: 7
Kez thank you so much for clearing so much up for me! The only thing I am still a little iffy on is csync... is that not normally wired up to the DIN connector? Like I said the pad on the small square pcb that the DIN solders into says "V" so should I just run a wire from that to the "V" pad? Not sure if the cable strips the sync from the "V" or if I should just connect that to csync. I am connecting to a Sony PVM through SCART->BNC with external sync (H+V sync).

Again, thanks for making the audio hookup clear for me that was not in the guide unless I just missed it somewhere. I ask a lot of questions so I don't break anything and can hopefully get it right the first time. A lot of my confusion comes from the guide only covering Japanese Famicom AV's with the multi-out and that is not what I am going to use.


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