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 Post subject: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:26 pm 


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Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 128
Location: Seattle, WA
Here's a breakdown of the capture setup we've been using here at Northwest STG for recording and streaming videos. Hope someone finds this helpful and I can provide more info / pics if needed. Feedback and input much appreciated!

Sound

I stopped using the built-in speakers in my Astro City a long time ago by using a high-to-low converter to get the amplified JAMMA sound down to line level. This gave me RCA jacks so that I could run the sound into better speakers. I used an AMP-UP connector to plug the high-to-low converter into the speaker plug under the control panel, making it super easy to switch back to using the built in speakers.

The sound coming out of the cabinet goes into a mixer, which also has a microphone plugged in for commentating. The sound goes out of the mixer into speakers (subwoofer!) and into the line-in jack on a computer.

XBox 360 Video

I split the VGA signal coming out of the 360 using a powered splitter. If I didn't use a powered splitter, the signal got dim. Your milage may vary, my setup requires fairly long cables which might explain why things got dim. One VGA output went into the PEXHDCAP, one into an Ultracade UVC in my Astro City.

JAMMA Video

The video took the most work and was mostly trial and error. The components:


I built a small JAMMA harness extender so that I could split the video signal coming off the PCB and feed it into the scaler.

The PEXHDCAP is capable of recording at 240p, so you can just take the RGBS signal and wire that up into an HD15 connector. Composite sync goes to the horizontal sync pin and you can just ground the vertical sync. I initally read that you needed to split the composite sync into horizontal sync and vertical sync. This is not needed and you can just use composite sync.

While you can capture raw 240p with the PEXHDCAP, in my experience it's not worth it. I did get it to work, but I had to use an RGB splitter / amplifier because the signal got too weak when I split it. This wasn't the case when using the scaler, not sure why but that's how it was. More importantly though was the fact that 240p going straight into the PEXHDCAP would not work for Cave PGM boards, which was super disappointing and probably due to their wacky 448x224 resolution. Through the scaler, they worked fine.

Hands Cam

I taped a webcam (Logitech C270) to the ceiling and bought a USB extension cable so that it would reach the PC. Easy peasy.

Streaming

I use XSplit to stream to twitch.tv

Results

Ibara 240p directly to PEXHDCAP

Ibara through scaler

Espgaluda run

Excuse the poor play.
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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:09 pm 



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 8049
That's an impressive setup. Does recording to a DVD-R for superplays work well?

And using those Jamma PCBs that do have stereo output (i.e. -- Taito G-Net, Taito Type X/X+/X2, Neo-Geo MVS, Namco 246, Sega Naomi, etc.), would be best. I've noticed like with the Sega Model 2 PCB of Virtual On, it can support a four speaker setup + subwoofer. Even Atari Games' T-Mek Jamma PCB has a four speaker setup from the get-go (the T-Mek PCB instruction manual goes into more detail about it).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~


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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:27 pm 


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If you're recording at 60fps and uploading that to youtube, that is the reason it doesn't look smooth. Youtube will just drop every other frame. You will be better off recording at 30 fps and exporting your blended video (with control panel) at 30 because then youtube won't drop anything and it will look smooth. Also a Jrok sync cleaner would probably fix your PGM problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:48 pm 


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Posts: 369
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
If you need a long cable I recommend a UTP extender. It sends the audio/video through an ethernet cable which is designed to preserve signal quality over long distances. This one is also a powered splitter.

Apparently it works well up to like 300m, though I only use about 20m myself.


Last edited by colour_thief on Wed May 22, 2013 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:49 pm 


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Joined: 25 Apr 2008
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Location: Seattle, WA
I haven't done any DVD-R burning yet, so I can't comment on that.

All the uploads have been through streaming on XSplit, then uploading to YouTube, so I haven't been paying too much attention to the quality yet. XSplit was set to stream at 30fps, maybe 29.97. I'll mess around more with better ways of recording, thanks for the tips.

That's interesting about the sync cleaner. I did build my own LM1881N and used NAND gates to get separate H and V sync, but that didn't help the PGM games. I'll have to order a Jrok and give it a shot.
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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:54 pm 


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Location: Seattle, WA
colour_thief: That's good to know, but I'll probably just keep what I've got since I don't need to go THAT far!
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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 2:48 pm 


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wnka wrote:
Composite sync goes to the horizontal sync pin and you can just ground the vertical sync. I initally read that you needed to split the composite sync into horizontal sync and vertical sync. This is not needed and you can just use composite sync.

Oh my god dude. You don't actually even need to ground vsync, it works if it's just not connected. You fixed my PCB capture/streaming setup! You rock dude 8)
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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:11 pm 


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Location: Seattle, WA
trap15 wrote:
Oh my god dude. You don't actually even need to ground vsync, it works if it's just not connected. You fixed my PCB capture/streaming setup! You rock dude 8)


Cool! I saw you were streaming Thunder Dragon 2 last night, I couldn't tune in though. How are you splitting the JAMMA video?

I found out the long way that vsync isn't needed. I built an LM1881 circuit using some stripboard and hooked it all up with wirenuts and everything was working. Then I noticed that I forgot to hook up the vsync wire and it was just blowing in the wind, but things were working anyway. So I removed all that and just fed csync into the hsync pin. You are right that you don't have to ground vsync, I grounded it just to wire it to something.

I ordered a jrok sync cleaner last night, hopefully that'll fix my Cave PGM issues.
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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:22 pm 


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Location: 東京都杉並区
I had a friend wire up a fingerboard passthrough that goes on the JAMMA edge of my board, and hook that up to my supergun. It then brings the necessary signals out to HD15, and I hook that up to my PEXHDCAP. Then I just have the audio coming out of my supergun into the audio plug thing. Works super well. Just need to get an HD15 extension cable, because as it is, I have to have my boards pretty much directly behind my computer :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:43 am 


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Location: Seattle, WA
The jrok sync cleaner fixed my PGM issue! Thanks Muchi Muchi Spork!
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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:23 pm 


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Location: SF Bay Area
Massive thread! Thanks for posting your setup wnka. Unfortunately all my gear is in storage, so I won't be able to try this out until a month or so.

How did you combine and sync the two video sources, through XSplit?
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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:54 pm 


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Location: Seattle, WA
Dave_K. wrote:
How did you combine and sync the two video sources, through XSplit?


Yep, all the layout and source combining is through XSplit.

I noticed an issue when using the jrok where the top of the screen is unstable and jitters. You can see what I mean in this picture:

Image

This is from my Ibara PCB, which was fine without the jrok. Anybody know what the issue might be?
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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:37 pm 


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Glad it fixed the PGM issue. It cleaned them up for me too, in other ways. I don't know the answer to this Ibara problem, I don't get that. On the one hand you might be able to get around it by sorting in an alligator clip rig to turn the sync cleaner on and off, on the other hand I'm pretty sure it works better fully solid soldered.

You know what that kind of looks like though, is as if you have the RGB outs way too low. That can mess with sync like that and make the white be that dark...junk. I can't tell if the screen is in the middle of a fade or what in that pic. Certainly you are going to have to change the RGB out power per board type.

So on this:
http://www.jammaboards.com/store/cga-eg ... -8220.html

The R, G and B knobs, you need to adjust those every time you swap a hardware type. They generally need to be adjusted all 3 the same amounts unless your board has an issue. On mine CV1000 need a little under the dead even setting, PGM needs right about dead even, PGM2 needs a little higher than dead even, Namco boards need a little higher than that. Your white background there should be "absolutely white". Do a test on your RGB knobs, crank them all one way and the other, you should see sync issues arise.


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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:11 am 


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Location: Seattle, WA
Adding the jrok allowed me to grab 240p off PGM directly without the Gonbes, so I stopped using the Gonbes scaler. I should have been more clear about that. This Ibara issue happens with straight 240p. I was able to grab 240p off Ibara before the jrok and the sync was fine. 240p with jrok = top jitter.

The cable I built for straight 240p does have 1k ohm pots in the line so I'll try tweaking those when I get a chance, however I don't think it's a brightness issue since without the jrok the issue isn't there. The issue only shows up in the capture card, the monitor looks fine.
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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:14 pm 


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If it doesn't cause other problems I'd add that card back in the mix even just for the added knobs. The RGB output ideally needs to be adjusted every time you change your hardware. Its levels have a huge impact on your capture quality and there is a perfect level that is different on every hardware. On a tv/monitor you'll probably have brightness/contrast/color etc. to adjust but you don't get that on the recording, not a good analog way anyway.

The RGB level out can absolutely affect the sync like that and the first thing to jitter is the screen edge like in your pic. I'll show you, here is a video of the same hardware where I twist the knobs too high (first section of the video, sync goes apeshit) then too low (white is wrong like in your pic and the left side of the screen is a different shade and starting to desync like in your pic).

http://www.sendspace.com/file/gicgok

But you might always get a half pixel or so on the edge where it isn't technically perfect, when using the jrok. It has never bothered me but if it nags you you might want to make a switchable setup and just use it on your PGM games.


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 Post subject: Re: Capture / Streaming Setup
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:41 pm 


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Location: Seattle, WA
Sorry for the late reply, haven't had much time to mess with this. Thanks for the illustrative video, the 240p cable I built does have 1k ohm pots in the line so I'll try tweaking those. Otherwise I'll just throw the scaler back into the mix, but the issue isn't that big of a deal and isn't very noticeable.
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