BitBlitz: 15k RGB -> VGA

[Ed Oscuro]

And some flat panels incorporate such scaling internally as well (e.g., my somewhat dated but still quite good Planar PX2611W).

[StarCreator]

That's clearly beyond the scope of a project like this one.

Quite a few scalers out there provide such a feature. Optoma HD3000 and Framemeister for example.

And I began my post by apologizing for it being off-topic, but I was looking for an evaluation of such a thing being a technical feasibility and Crafty was the first person I thought of to ask.

Adding a scaler in the signal chain is far, far beyond what is needed for this edge case I'm researching, which absolutely cannot have any lag introduced.

[Fudoh]

If you don't exactly need auto detection of the signal, but could live with a programmable input and output resolution, this should (theoretically) very well be managable. Precision is needed though as the processor would have to cut into the original signal and insert a certain amount of pixels for each line. The problem is that nobody really needs something like it, so it's hardly worthwhile to create something like this (especially since the costs would easily be higher than any capable 2nd hand processor).

[StarCreator]

Darn... I was hoping it could be a problem solved with a device on the same level of complexity as a scanline generator. Do any of the scalers you mentioned perform a function like this without added lag?

[Fudoh]

No, this always involves the minimal lag of the processor in question - somewhere between 0.5 frames (DVDO) and 1.5 frames (Framemeister).

[niall]

An FPGA scaler for 2160p/4K screens would be an interesting project one day - the increased resolution could give a much more accurate feel of a CRT's varying RGB voltage, rather than square pixels for all.

[ZellSF]

There is no target date at the moment. Users of my mini SLG know that I highly value quality and compatibility, so the work continues at a slower pace. There are still issues I am not satisfied with, and I recently moved the design to a CPLD implementation to cut down on the board size and number of logic chips.

Generally the prototype I have running works great for some sources, and not at all for others. There is also the issue of color depth (16 vs. 24bit). There are random issues that only pop up sometimes. The design is at its core simple, but the variety of 15k signals makes the architecture more complicated.

The BitBlitz won't meet everyone's needs, and I've decided I'm ok with that. My focus is a board that is a) easy to support, b) has a good range of compatibility, and c) be inexpensive to manufacture and therefor sell at a reasonable cost (i.e not hundreds of dollars).

I'll update this thread again when I am nearing release with the specifics of the board, and a compatibility list where it is known to work very well. I'll be honest I'm not much of a long term planner, I prefer to hit the ground running and evolve over time with multiple releases.

Thanks for everyone's interest!

As long as it works with PS1, and maybe PS2 & Wii 240p if YUV support drops.

Late reply, but... both PS2 and Wii supports 240p over RGB and will likely have better image quality that way. With the PS2 you can even use the same cables as for the PS1. YUV support seems pretty pointless.

[dieKatze88]

There is no target date at the moment. Users of my mini SLG know that I highly value quality and compatibility, so the work continues at a slower pace. There are still issues I am not satisfied with, and I recently moved the design to a CPLD implementation to cut down on the board size and number of logic chips.

Generally the prototype I have running works great for some sources, and not at all for others. There is also the issue of color depth (16 vs. 24bit). There are random issues that only pop up sometimes. The design is at its core simple, but the variety of 15k signals makes the architecture more complicated.

The BitBlitz won't meet everyone's needs, and I've decided I'm ok with that. My focus is a board that is a) easy to support, b) has a good range of compatibility, and c) be inexpensive to manufacture and therefor sell at a reasonable cost (i.e not hundreds of dollars).

I'll update this thread again when I am nearing release with the specifics of the board, and a compatibility list where it is known to work very well. I'll be honest I'm not much of a long term planner, I prefer to hit the ground running and evolve over time with multiple releases.

Thanks for everyone's interest!

As long as it works with PS1, and maybe PS2 & Wii 240p if YUV support drops.

Late reply, but... both PS2 and Wii supports 240p over RGB and will likely have better image quality that way. With the PS2 you can even use the same cables as for the PS1. YUV support seems pretty pointless.

YUV support isn't completely pointless. My TV is pretty lag-free when you feed it a progressive scan signal via YUV, but sucks hardcore if you feed it an interlaced signal over the same port. There are uses for it.

[ZellSF]

As long as it works with PS1, and maybe PS2 & Wii 240p if YUV support drops.

Late reply, but... both PS2 and Wii supports 240p over RGB and will likely have better image quality that way. With the PS2 you can even use the same cables as for the PS1. YUV support seems pretty pointless.

YUV support isn't completely pointless. My TV is pretty lag-free when you feed it a progressive scan signal via YUV, but sucks hardcore if you feed it an interlaced signal over the same port. There are uses for it.

I was talking about inputs. For output, I heard there's RGB-YUV transcoders.

[BitFaced]

There is no target date at the moment. Users of my mini SLG know that I highly value quality and compatibility, so the work continues at a slower pace. There are still issues I am not satisfied with, and I recently moved the design to a CPLD implementation to cut down on the board size and number of logic chips.

Generally the prototype I have running works great for some sources, and not at all for others. There is also the issue of color depth (16 vs. 24bit). There are random issues that only pop up sometimes. The design is at its core simple, but the variety of 15k signals makes the architecture more complicated.

The BitBlitz won't meet everyone's needs, and I've decided I'm ok with that. My focus is a board that is a) easy to support, b) has a good range of compatibility, and c) be inexpensive to manufacture and therefor sell at a reasonable cost (i.e not hundreds of dollars).

I'll update this thread again when I am nearing release with the specifics of the board, and a compatibility list where it is known to work very well. I'll be honest I'm not much of a long term planner, I prefer to hit the ground running and evolve over time with multiple releases.

Thanks for everyone's interest!

As long as it works with PS1, and maybe PS2 & Wii 240p if YUV support drops.

Late reply, but... both PS2 and Wii supports 240p over RGB and will likely have better image quality that way. With the PS2 you can even use the same cables as for the PS1. YUV support seems pretty pointless.

The thing is though, I already have to use the PS2 and Wii YUV output for 480p and higher, so it'd be quite easier to just use the same cable for 240p.

[rtw]

Crafty+Mech, any new videos to show of this highly anticipated piece of kit ?

[niall]

Hey Crafty+Mech - any idea how large the final board will be, approximately? Just trying to figure out where I can mount it, and how long my BNC cables need to be (and what orientation maximises how many I can fit on a 2 or 3RU blank plate).

Hey also, hypothetically, if I wanted to switch the scanline dip off or on from an external source, what sort of DC current would trigger each? It's really gotten me thinking about an inline buffer to kick it over between modes. I wonder what spec of Arduino would be sufficient to proof-of-concept it, I'm a software guy but hardware looks lots of fun too!

[Crafty+Mech]

About the same size as the Gonbes 8200, now that I switched to a CPLD for the TTL logic.

My Arcade Monitor Test Pattern Generator product really took off (to the tune of 100+ pre-orders) so I've been busy getting that ready for release in two weeks. So back to the BitBlitz soon, the opportunity with the Test Pattern Generator was to good to pass up and the design easy to implement (micro-controller based, so complexity was in the code).

TPG project thread on KLOV: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=297247

[dayo]

can i order one
when its ready thanks

[niall]

About the same size as the Gonbes 8200

Perfect, cheers!

My Arcade Monitor Test Pattern Generator product really took off (to the tune of 100+ pre-orders) so I've been busy getting that ready for release in two weeks. So back to the BitBlitz soon, the opportunity with the Test Pattern Generator was to good to pass up and the design easy to implement (micro-controller based, so complexity was in the code).
TPG project thread on KLOV: http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=297247

ORLY I've been looking for a programmable test pattern generator for some time now...

[BitFaced]

Have a more projected price range, yet?

[bobrocks95]

I doubt Crafty Mech has a price update for us. What might be better to ask is if he's wrapping up on his first order of test pattern generators (and congratulate him on his success with them!), and if he's currently working on any specific aspect of the BitBlitz. I don't see us getting any closer an estimate than "less than $100" until it's very close to done, though I could be mistaken.

[Crafty+Mech]

I doubt Crafty Mech has a price update for us. What might be better to ask is if he's wrapping up on his first order of test pattern generators (and congratulate him on his success with them!), and if he's currently working on any specific aspect of the BitBlitz. I don't see us getting any closer an estimate than "less than $100" until it's very close to done, though I could be mistaken.

Bob called it right

The Test Pattern Generator started off as a quick side project, but got a much bigger response than I was expecting when I first proposed the idea on KLOV.

The good news is I have learned a lot about the production process for more complicated boards. I upgraded to an ultrasonic bath for cleaning PCBs after assembly, developed new vendor relationships for bulk part buys, and am close to launching a revamp of my website with an online shop & PayPal support (so no more PM'ing purchase requests).

Everyday I stare at the workbench where the BitBlitz prototype is setup, knowing I need to jump back into the project.

When the project starts moving forward again, I'll definitely post an update!

[BitFaced]

I doubt Crafty Mech has a price update for us. What might be better to ask is if he's wrapping up on his first order of test pattern generators (and congratulate him on his success with them!), and if he's currently working on any specific aspect of the BitBlitz. I don't see us getting any closer an estimate than "less than $100" until it's very close to done, though I could be mistaken.

Bob called it right

The Test Pattern Generator started off as a quick side project, and exploded into expected sales of 200+ units by the end of the year. I had no idea it would become that popular when I first proposed the idea on KLOV.

The good news is I have learned a lot about the production process for more complicated boards. I upgraded to an ultrasonic bath for cleaning PCBs after assembly, developed new vendor relationships for bulk part buys, and am close to launching a revamp of my website with an online shop & PayPal support (so no more PM'ing purchase requests).

Everyday I stare at the workbench where the BitBlitz prototype is setup, knowing I need to jump back into the project.

When the project starts moving forward again, I'll definitely post an update!

Thanks Crafty!

[jdubs]

Any sort of status update on this?

-Jim

[BitFaced]

Can we expect an update on this throughout the year?

[Adderall]

bump! My $$ is ready....

PS: TPG is working great!

[Crafty+Mech]

bump! My $$ is ready....

PS: TPG is working great!

Awesome that the TPG is working well for you!

I've put my 15k RGB -> VGA project on the back burner for now. Two recent project threads in the hardware forum: the Enhanced GBS-8200 project & the FPGA line doubler project, have pushed the concept beyond what I was planning. I'm hoping the FPGA project sees a production release, with 720p output capability I think that fits better with what a lot of members here are looking for (HD compatibility).

Here is the link to the FPGA 720p converter project: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52158