Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition online

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kludd70
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by kludd70 »

I've been keeping an eye on these developments every once in awhile and that's a pretty mindblowing update. Great work. Reassuring to know there's at least 1 group out there who appreciates the glory of 240p.

Thing is, I'm not too much of a techhead, yet I still desperately wants some converted 240p. I'd been looking out for the emotias, though from what I understand they will accept 480p only and you need a separate linedoubler to convert 480i.

Though now I see it's possible to do a 480i to 240p conversion with a cheap Extron RGB. Is that something a layman like me could accomplish? What all extra cords and converters and doodads do you need to get that to work from a PS2 composite cord to an NTSC CRT?
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Fudoh
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by Fudoh »

And what inputs does your CRT have ?

In the input side you would need a Sync Strike and an Extron RGB interface. The Extron outputs RGBs through BNC connectors - just like the Emotias.

Note though that this works differently on different types of 480i. It will look *brilliant* for example on Sengoku Blade or Dragon Blaze, but will introduce a little jitter on titles like Gradius V.
kludd70
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by kludd70 »

My CRT has composite, RF, component, S-video. I assume RGB means component?

The sync strike seems to have SCART input, so I'd need an adapter for that too right? As well as whatever outputs from that to the extron. I'm unfamiliar with "BNC", but looking it up it seems to be for the RF?

And yeah, I noticed you mentioned there was some jitter but that it's still better than 480i. I would want to use it on native 480i games so if the jitter is too nasty than maybe it'd still be better to stick with looking for an emotia and linedoubler. Though is there an affordable linedoubler without too much lag?
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Fudoh
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by Fudoh »

On your TV you cannot use a RGB interface. Sorry.

As the name says, it's a RGB in, RGB out interface and you would have to transcode to component after that (Sync Strike > RGB Interface > Component transcoder). Probably easier to get another display.
kludd70
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by kludd70 »

Okay, I guess I'm not clear on what an RGB connection actually is. Looking it up it seems to be a PAL thing that NTSC TVs don't use. Is it the same thing as VGA? I think I would rather get a transcoder than import a TV, unless that introduces further issues...
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Fudoh
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by Fudoh »

No, it's not a PAL thing. Monitors in the US have it just as well. VGA is RGB, but 31khz instead of 15khz.

What TV size are you looking at ??
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by kludd70 »

Searching for "rgb input crt", the first thing that comes up is a topic stating that they don't exist in the US. Of course, I'm sure it's possible to get them somewhere. I'm pretty happy with the 27-32" CRTs I have and wouldn't want to go smaller than that. Is there some problem with using a transcoder (aside from this all being a bit over my head of course)?
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Fudoh
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by Fudoh »

You can check your area for a Sony PVM in that size.

Using a transcoder is ok, but it might get complicated with the wiring, since some transcoders require a switching voltage to be present in the connection, while down scalers like the Emotia or UVC don't deliver that on their output.
kludd70
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by kludd70 »

Well, look at that, there is a 29" one on craigslist. Though, I think if I was going to pick up another TV I might as well look for one of those that can just force 240p through the service menu.

Other threads say the Super Emotia GX can output to component. You think that would work for me? If so, that still sounds like the ideal solution.
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by Fudoh »

Well, look at that, there is a 29" one on craigslist. Though, I think if I was going to pick up another TV I might as well look for one of those that can just force 240p through the service menu.
but remember that's basically just the "RGB interface" method I described on my site. It will only work properly on a very few selected titles. To use a down converter makes much more sense.
Other threads say the Super Emotia GX can output to component. You think that would work for me? If so, that still sounds like the ideal solution.
that's right. Tough to find though.

How is that 29" PVM on craigslist ? It will most likely have superior picture than your current TV set.
kludd70
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by kludd70 »

Condition seems iffy. And I'd probably need to get a new stand to fit it as well. Picture quality isn't a big concern for me anyways (outside of getting 240p).

link in case anyone else in GA is interested:
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/ele/3622174491.html

Thanks for clearing things up. I'll just keep looking for the Super GX. I've seen a number of them pop up, I'd just been holding out for a cheaper one with a power supply (probably not gonna happen).

The only question left is my previous question as to what is recommended in terms of a linedoubler for converting 480i content?
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Fudoh
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by Fudoh »

at $50 you should pick it up, clean it up, check it out. If you dislike it, somebody will pick it up again from your place. But I'm pretty sure that you'll love it.
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by rCadeGaming »

I was the member who measured a frame of lag on an RGB interface. I do think that my measurement method was sound , but I don't think Fudoh and I have the same model interfaces to compare our results, correct?

I found the lag on a 202xi and a 202xi w/ADSP, so while I could be wrong about it, it would be safest to avoid these models until this is confirmed. Fudoh measured another model(s) with one of Leo's lag testers, which I think we could agree is indisputable. Fudoh, what model(s) did you confirm to be lag free again? The 203?
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by Fudoh »

190, 164, 201 and 203 - those are the ones I have.
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by voona »

I would like to buy a Genius II in Australia.

I tried to contact highway but they cant get the II version only Ver I

Any ideas from you Euro guys?

Thanks!
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Fudoh
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by Fudoh »

You can always directly contact MIMO.
voona
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by voona »

Hr-mm getting zero reply from their support email.

Fudoh who did you get yours from ?
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Fudoh
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by Fudoh »

directly from Mimo. Just emailed their info@... adress. You can PM me for a personal email contact.
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by fagin »

rCadeGaming wrote:I was the member who measured a frame of lag on an RGB interface. I do think that my measurement method was sound , but I don't think Fudoh and I have the same model interfaces to compare our results, correct?

I found the lag on a 202xi and a 202xi w/ADSP, so while I could be wrong about it, it would be safest to avoid these models until this is confirmed. Fudoh measured another model(s) with one of Leo's lag testers, which I think we could agree is indisputable. Fudoh, what model(s) did you confirm to be lag free again? The 203?
I have a 202xi and after much ****ing around making a cable up it appears to work very well.... with no apparant lag that I can "sense".

Quick question.... how did you connect the 202 to your VGA source? If you use the Extron MBC lead (I haven't, I have made my own 15pin to 9pin cable) it apparantly buffers the signal. I'm wondering if this is the lag you saw?
rCadeGaming
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by rCadeGaming »

Nope, I made my own cable.

I found my write-up concerning the lag testing:

"I recorded the TV with a camera in 240 fps. I got the TV screen and a closeup of an arcade stick in the same shot. I recorded pushing the light punch button in Third Strike, and counted the number of frames between the button being depressed and Ken beginning his punch animation. That number of frames in the video, divided by four, equals the number of frames taken in the game (240 / 4 = 60). I can confirm that the camera is running at 240 fps and the game is running at 60 fps because I can see the TV's vertical scanning in the video, and I can see it completes a frame every four frames, if you know what I mean. The results were consistent with repeated trials.

PS3 (480i) -> TC1600 -> TV = 3 frames until punch animation starts, defined here as 0 frames of lag

PS3 (480p) -> Super Emotia -> TC1600 -> TV = 3 frames to punch, 0 frames lag

PS3 (480p) -> RGB 202xi w/ADSP -> Super Emotia -> TC1600 -> TV = 4 frames to punch, 1 frame lag

PS3 (480i) -> Andora -> Super Emotia -> TC1600 -> TV = 4 frames to punch, 1 frame lag

PS3 (480i) -> Andora -> RGB 202xi w/ADSP -> TC1600 -> TV = 5 frames to punch, 2 frames lag"

I also tested with a non-ADSP 202xi. Same thing.

Eventually, I will hook up an LED to indicate more clearly when the button is depressed and repeat these tests. I bought some RGB 108 plus's, so I'll need to test them at some point. I also need to get one of LEO's lag testers before I buy a new TV.
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by rCadeGaming »

Can you provide more info about the signal being buffered with this Extron lead? Are there some electronics in it?
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by BuckoA51 »

That's very interesting and a little disappointing, I would have never expected the Extron RGB interfaces to cause input lag.
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akumajo
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by akumajo »

if it's true ... the next question is, does Mimo devices are lag free ? :)

I expect the lag to be like Gefen VGA/DVI Scaler Plus (1 frame).
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Fudoh
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by Fudoh »

I would have never expected the Extron RGB interfaces to cause input lag.
we haven't determined yet, why they might lag on some setups. Using Leo's lag tester I get the very same lag results with and without the RGB interfaces.
does Mimo devices are lag free
for downscaling: yes. All the scan converters work line based with a very small buffer for up to 2 lines at a time.
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Re: Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition onli

Post by strayan »

Fudoh wrote:There a few consumer TV sets which do the "line-offset trick", just like running a 480i through a RGB interface. I think the B&O sets recently discussed are among them. Some older Sonys as well.
Has anyone ever made a list of these TV’s?
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