Emotia/UVC/Genius/VSC - Special Downscaling Edition online

[Fudoh]

Seven (fuck, 7!!!) years ago I launched my Scanlines Demystified website.

Today a totally new version went online. Focusing on all the available downscaling solutions - putting all the resources about the Emotias, UVCs, Genius boxes and other solutions under one roof. If you read most of the threads here on the board, you won't find much new informations though...

Happy reading !

http://scanlines.hazard-city.de/

[kamiboy]

Here is hoping that one day soon you can add a newly developed cheap and compact solution to that section.

480p -> 240p should be easier and more elegant than it currently is.

[Fudoh]

I think that both the Emotia and the Genius are rather elegant already - and the GII just too expensive.

I'm looking forward to CraftyMech taking care of this. He already mentioned that his CGA2VGA converter project might be reversed as well.

[emphatic]

I'm looking forward to CraftyMech taking care of this. He already mentioned that his CGA2VGA converter project might be reversed as well.

Cool, his stuff looks great so far and I'd even buy one as a backup should lightning strike my precious UVC. Would be cool if his unit could take 480i input as well.

[Fudoh]

Would be cool if his unit could take 480i input as well.

hardly, but at the prices he's aiming for you can do CGA2VGA + VGA2CGA for 480i>480p>240p and it would still be basically lag free. We'll just have to see basic 480i processing is implemented, maybe through a dip switch. 480i to 480p requires a different line offset for every 2nd field compared to 240p to 480p doubling.

[kamiboy]

I think that both the Emotia and the Genius are rather elegant already - and the GII just too expensive.

I'm looking forward to CraftyMech taking care of this. He already mentioned that his CGA2VGA converter project might be reversed as well.

The profile of both those devices is too bulky for what they do, and dont get me started on the Emotia power supply situation. From what I understand the Genius fares no better in that regard since it is meant to be put inside an arcade cabinet.

Indeed, that reversible CGA2VGA cannot be made available soon enough.

[Fudoh]

From what I understand the Genius fares no better in that regard since it is meant to be put inside an arcade cabinet.

The Genius can be used with any 12V psu. Only draws 300mA. I used one from an external hard disk. The GII is about the size of a standard DVD case, just double as thick.

[emphatic]

Would be cool if his unit could take 480i input as well.

hardly, but at the prices he's aiming for you can do CGA2VGA + VGA2CGA for 480i>480p>240p and it would still be basically lag free. We'll just have to see basic 480i processing is implemented, maybe through a dip switch. 480i to 480p requires a different line offset for every 2nd field compared to 240p to 480p doubling.

Oh, I meant something like a "480i->240p mode".

[kamiboy]

Speaking of PSU's, from where does the CGA2VGA draw power? External adapter or is it powered by the 5v VGA pin?

[Fudoh]

Oh, I meant something like a "480i->240p mode".

I know.

Speaking of PSU's, from where does the CGA2VGA draw power?

certainly an external PSU. I would recommend screw terminals like the Sync Strike.

[leonk]

Thanks for that web site. Great read. Really explained why genius 2 is better than others for 480p to 240p. I do have a question though. The genius is sharper because it basically restores the original 240p image that was line doubled to 480p. But what about sources that are true 480p (eg Sega Naomi)?

As far as I see the genius throws 1/2 the data away while others blend it. Which method do you think yields nicer looking pic?

[Crafty+Mech]

I'll check out the website update Fudoh!

Today was cold and snowy, and I was caught up on my mini SLG orders, so I spent the afternoon working on my CGA2VGA project.

480i->240p is an interesting possibility. I need to look at the options once I'm finished with the 240p->480p design, and decide what exactly the first iteration of the board will include. An external power supply will be required (5v), and I was also thinking about screw terminals (for easy Jamma hookup) and a 5v DC plug as well.

My goal for the CGA2VGA board initially is lag free upscaling of 15k RGB sources, with built in scanline support, and an on-board sync cleaner. The idea is that you can replace three different products with a single, compact and inexpensive board that has been purpose built for the gaming community. Shortly I'm going to start a project thread once I have screenshots and some video to show. Every time I hook up the Gonbes 8200 I shudder at all the artifacts and can't wait until I finish this design!

[kamiboy]

I'd put in a vote for 480p to 240p being the next project. A cheap compact solution is badly needed.

Personally I'd like something with a HD15 input on one side, SCART output on the other and a USB port for power. But I'd take anything at this point.

[Ed Oscuro]

Interesting writeup, spotted a typo though:

With a machting monitor (either a 31khz CRT, a LCD or a Plasma set) this allows for superb picture quality.

e.g., matching

[emphatic]

480i->240p is an interesting possibility. I need to look at the options once I'm finished with the 240p->480p design, and decide what exactly the first iteration of the board will include. An external power supply will be required (5v), and I was also thinking about screw terminals (for easy Jamma hookup) and a 5v DC plug as well.

My goal for the CGA2VGA board initially is lag free upscaling of 15k RGB sources, with built in scanline support, and an on-board sync cleaner. The idea is that you can replace three different products with a single, compact and inexpensive board that has been purpose built for the gaming community. Shortly I'm going to start a project thread once I have screenshots and some video to show. Every time I hook up the Gonbes 8200 I shudder at all the artifacts and can't wait until I finish this design!

Very exciting. For connections, might I suggest a D-Sub connector for inputs/outputs so you can supply adapter cables to go along with the unit, like Scart->D-Sub, D-Sub->D-sub and whatever else the community would want? Maybe a screw terminal R, G, B, S, GND for JAMMA use? Using D-Sub wired like VGA would also mean that we can use regular VGA switch boxes for easy console switching.

[BuckoA51]

The Extron interfaces can also be used for a completely different approach: using a sync processing dip switch on the back, an incoming 480i RGB signal can be converted to 240p by adding a simple line offset.

Just to clarify that's the DDSP switch right? I should update my website article on the Extron units and include this info too.

[Fudoh]

Yes, that's the DDSP switch.

Personally I'd like something with a HD15 input on one side, SCART output on the other and a USB port for power. But I'd take anything at this point.

Scart again brings that JP21 vs. EUR-Scart confusion with it and it probably makes the device larger. But you're right, whatever works

[Fudoh]

The genius is sharper because it basically restores the original 240p image that was line doubled to 480p.

that's right.

But what about sources that are true 480p (eg Sega Naomi)? As far as I see the genius throws 1/2 the data away while others blend it. Which method do you think yields nicer looking pic?

doesn't make a big difference, since the vertical resolution is reduced as well. On a tube with strong scanlines I could not spot any differences. I guess the resulting picture just seems a bit sharper, but don't expect to see extra jaggies or such. In theory you're right though. Also the question is, if a true 480p title should be reduced to 240p in the first place. 384p with 24khz should be the better choice. I don't have a 24khz display at home, but I assume that the Genius doesn't just throw out a third of the lines to achieve this. Maybe capoz can try this at one point with his Genius I.

[kamiboy]

Scart again brings that JP21 vs. EUR-Scart confusion with it and it probably makes the device larger. But you're right, whatever works

What would be better though? HD15 wouldnt fare better as then you add the problem of H/V sync vs composite sync, unless the HD15 output port supports outputting c-sync on both the H&V sync pin, which is not standard but much better for almost every low res capable CRT.

4 BNC's would work, but I imagine they would take up more space than a single SCART port.

[Fudoh]

HD15 wouldnt fare better as then you add the problem of H/V sync vs composite sync

not really, just keep to the standards. 15khz RGB has c-sync, while 31khz RGB has H/V sync.

[Overkill]

Fudoh, putting the Extron RGB before the Super emotia it's better to put the output in RGB+Sync, or RGBHV? or its kind of not matter as the emotia gonna output RGBS?

[Fudoh]

Do the Emotias even accept anything besides RGBHV ? I would keep the signal in RGBHV as long as possible.

[Overkill]

My Extron rgb can output in both rgbhv, or rgbs. And the emotia is aceppting both great. But i want to know for sure what's the best. Gonna change the extron rgb for RGBHV output then.

[Fudoh]

I think the RGBs input compatibility on the Emotia's side might be related to some SGI workstations. I've only used it with RGBHV so far.

[Stan]

Cool stuff!

Are there any professional CRT monitors/TVs with builtin downscaling function?

[Fudoh]

There a few consumer TV sets which do the "line-offset trick", just like running a 480i through a RGB interface. I think the B&O sets recently discussed are among them. Some older Sonys as well.

[Stan]

Thanks.

Does the VSC/RGB interface combo generate any lag to the signal?

[Fudoh]

The VSC not, it works line-based. In my experience the RGB interface not either, but a fellow member here measured his interfaces and got a frame of lag. I don't know why.

[Overkill]

Fudoh do you know this device? http://www.weiya.com.tw/products_detail ... atName=VGA

[Fudoh]

yes, it's sold under many names and it's 480i only.