B&O MX4/6/7000 - troubleshooting and general information

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blizzz
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by blizzz »

SuperPang wrote:Yes. I'm rocking a Beovision 1 now and both my Saturn and Supergun trigger 16:9. I had to find a manual to figure out the secret button combination for 4:3 :lol:

It's one of their last CRTs produced yet theres no auto-switching or saving different picture settings for different inputs. Looks the part though, nice picture and amazing sound as always.
Does it trigger 16:9 when you put the 5V to pin 8? I'm wondering how you would make a correct RGB cable for NTSC SNES and N64. Afaik you need 9-12V on pin 8 to switch to 4:3 RGB and the 12V is missing on the NTSC consoles (replaced by csync).
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Skykid »

SuperPang wrote:Old one I'm afraid. You'd need to take the back off.

Your other set is probably fine. B&O are crap at auto-switching and generally recognising inputs.
Yeargh. :evil:

Got the new (well new for me) B&O today, MX4000:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bang-Olufsen- ... true&rt=nc


Plugged in the TV digital box, works fine. Auto switches on, in fact, just like my other.

Tried plugging in the Vogatek supergun, I gots nuthin. Same old story, AV button on the remote doesn't seem to respond. Tried both scart sockets, no freaking dice until at one point I got an image on the screen rolling like nuts by switching scart sockets. Couldn't stabilise it, and couldn't repeat the phenomenon thereafter for love nor money.

This thing doesn't need a sync strike between it does it? The Vogatek is outputting PAL through a PAL lead and I'm assuming the TV is also PAL, so what gives?

I notice in the Menu setup, the AV ports can be configured, what settings do I need?

Thanks for the help chaps, one day I might get a B&O that behaves. Hope it turns out to be this one. :(
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by cools »

The B&O is a highbrow device, it only accepts highbrow superguns. :wink:
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by SuperPang »

I had my MX4000 inputs set to V-Tape and V-Tape 2 (Shift V-Tape).
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Skykid »

SuperPang wrote:I had my MX4000 inputs set to V-Tape and V-Tape 2 (Shift V-Tape).
I'll try that when I get back. Why do you need to press shift ffs. :x
cools wrote:The B&O is a highbrow device, it only accepts highbrow superguns. :wink:
Yeah I bloody hope not. The vogatek is my travel friendly device.
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Fudoh »

Does it trigger 16:9 when you put the 5V to pin 8? I'm wondering how you would make a correct RGB cable for NTSC SNES and N64. Afaik you need 9-12V on pin 8 to switch to 4:3 RGB and the 12V is missing on the NTSC consoles (replaced by csync).
On a 4:3 TV set you just leave away pin 8. Pin 16 is required to switch the set into RGB mode, but if there's no voltage present on Pin 8 at all, the TV doesn't switch, but remains in standard mode instead (whichi is obviously 4:3 for 4:3 sets).
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Fudoh »

The Vogatek is outputting PAL through a PAL lead and I'm assuming the TV is also PAL, so what gives?
that's wrong on so many levels :lol:

Your Vogatek does output NTSC through a RGB scart lead, but your TV should be a multinorm set anyway (or at least able to handle 60Hz via RGB).
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Skykid »

Fudoh wrote:
The Vogatek is outputting PAL through a PAL lead and I'm assuming the TV is also PAL, so what gives?
that's wrong on so many levels :lol:

Your Vogatek does output NTSC through a RGB scart lead, but your TV should be a multinorm set anyway (or at least able to handle 60Hz via RGB).
Pang's got it for AV, his method does the job, weird and abstruse as it is.

Randomly, my brother plugged his SNES in via component (don't talk about it, it's not my stuff) and there's no sound - just a low level hiss coming from the speaker. I know it outputs sound via RGB, so anyone know how to solve this next hurdle? Does component need external speakers or something?

Also, brightness settings? Great picture, but shouldn't it be slightly less dull (maybe if I remove the protective screen!?)
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by SuperPang »

I assume you mean composite? Try one of those composite/S-video scart adapters instead. If you ever want to use S-video you'll need one of those anyway because there's an S-video input on the back with no audio inputs :lol:

I found my MX4000 dark with some sources. Saturn was perfect at the defaults, N64 needed the contrast up full, MVS was fairly dark. Presumably you can raise the contrast limit in the service menu. I was happy to see my Beovision 1 isn't like this, I actually have my contrast turned down.
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Skykid »

SuperPang wrote:I assume you mean composite? Try one of those composite/S-video scart adapters instead. If you ever want to use S-video you'll need one of those anyway because there's an S-video input on the back with no audio inputs :lol:

I found my MX4000 dark with some sources. Saturn was perfect at the defaults, N64 needed the contrast up full, MVS was fairly dark. Presumably you can raise the contrast limit in the service menu. I was happy to see my Beovision 1 isn't like this, I actually have my contrast turned down.
Sorry composite of course, one day I'll stop mixing those up. When I said I didn't think it had composite, he explained he meant UHF aerial. :palm:

But Pangster, help me, this thing's driving me nuts and you have the same set.

So that no sound through UHF Aerial isn't such a big deal, just unusual. But I accessed the service menu and used the image of the SNES to try to sort the image geometry, convergence, and general quality and after tinkering until I thought it looked reasonable, I switched to the scart to see Strider 2's crosshatch test screen and it's totally ballsed up. :|

Here be my issues:

- I can't get the service mode up on Scart (or V.Tape), so how the fudge to I adjust the Scart image (which clearly differs from an aerial feed quite considerably)?

- I actually don't know what all the service setting options are, I was just fiddling to try to get the image looking more equal. Do you know of a guide for those anywhere?

- By increasing the brightness and colour I managed to take it from being a sunfaded pic to a vibrant one. Now I just need to solve the convergence / geometry issues. If you could give me your service menu presets, that might help?

- Are there actually pots on the chassis for adjusting pics, or is it all in the service menu via remote. I looked but can't see anything.

- When setting geometry in this kind of CRT, am I aiming for as flat an image as possible on all sides, or to have an even curve to match the slight concave of the screen. I never had to fiddle with it before as my Egret II is set well enough, but this thing requires some work. :(

Sorry for all of those, if you can help me out would be greatly appreciative.

I'm off to Maplins now to get the bits I need to fit a push switch, back soon!
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by SuperPang »

I never used the service menu on my MX4000. Here's the service manual. Page 38 onwards should help..
http://beophile.com/wp-content/plugins/ ... php?id=222

For gawds sake don't try and fine tune a picture using an RF source. Use RGB. You need a cross hatch to adjust geometry. I'd put everything back the way it was until your supergun is working and just sort out the contrast and screen position for now.

Also, you won't be able to adjust convergence from a service menu AFAIK.
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by fagin »

SuperPang wrote:Also, you won't be able to adjust convergence from a service menu AFAIK.
Well, not on the B&O anyhow.
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Skykid »

SuperPang wrote:I never used the service menu on my MX4000. Here's the service manual. Page 38 onwards should help..
http://beophile.com/wp-content/plugins/ ... php?id=222

For gawds sake don't try and fine tune a picture using an RF source. Use RGB. You need a cross hatch to adjust geometry. I'd put everything back the way it was until your supergun is working and just sort out the contrast and screen position for now.

Also, you won't be able to adjust convergence from a service menu AFAIK.
Right, but I have the crosshatch already set up, but every time I switch from TV to RGB (or Tape 1/2) I lose the service menu option! So how the flying hell am I supposed to tune RGB?

Anyone?!

(As a side note: you never used the service menu Pang? The TV presets are so dark and dull, and for some bloody weird reason brightness and colour are confined to those jumpers behind the shell. I'd definitely suggest getting to it.)
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by fagin »

Skykid wrote:
SuperPang wrote:I never used the service menu on my MX4000. Here's the service manual. Page 38 onwards should help..
http://beophile.com/wp-content/plugins/ ... php?id=222

For gawds sake don't try and fine tune a picture using an RF source. Use RGB. You need a cross hatch to adjust geometry. I'd put everything back the way it was until your supergun is working and just sort out the contrast and screen position for now.

Also, you won't be able to adjust convergence from a service menu AFAIK.
Right, but I have the crosshatch already set up, but every time I switch from TV to RGB (or Tape 1/2) I lose the service menu option! So how the flying hell am I supposed to tune RGB?

Anyone?!

(As a side note: you never used the service menu Pang? The TV presets are so dark and dull, and for some bloody weird reason brightness and colour are confined to those jumpers behind the shell. I'd definitely suggest getting to it.)
Blindly..... I'm serious! :roll:

This is a major flaw on these sets.
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Skykid »

fagin wrote: Blindly..... I'm serious! :roll:

This is a major flaw on these sets.
Oh my... :facepalm:

Talk about a stupid. I couldn't believe that you can't access true brightness and colour settings without taking the back off, now I need to tune the geometry with no image.

Fagin sah:

- When tuning geometry, am I looking to get that grid as flat as possible, or slightly concave in the middle and around the edges to follow the shape of the screen itself?

- Deinterlace on this set howwwww?!!

- And lastly, I saw you mention something about being able to adjust the voltage and maybe some other pots from the chassis, but I can't see anything. If there's anything that will make the display a tad more vibrant (without risking killing it somehow) I'd love to know.

Thanks again.
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by fagin »

I tune for general conformity across the screen as if it were pure flat.

Deinterlace mode (using your remote) is: Can't remember! It's surely somewhere on this thread.

The pots I adjusted are on the neck card and where for focus and screen volts. None of those will make your image more vibrant...... the smoked screen in front of the tube is causing the problem with this. ;)
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Skykid »

fagin wrote:I tune for general conformity across the screen as if it were pure flat.

Deinterlace mode (using your remote) is: Can't remember! It's surely somewhere on this thread.

The pots I adjusted are on the neck card and where for focus and screen volts. None of those will make your image more vibrant...... the smoked screen in front of the tube is causing the problem with this. ;)
Well prior to reading your post I spent the whole morning installing my service mode button (and did a neat job of it if I do say so myself) and feckin' around with the geometry, which is surely one of the most frustrating things ever. I didn't go for pure flat, just a slight curve, but I can go back and tweak later.

Some obligatory pics. If you can identify errors on my test screen please let me know. Just to note I used Strider 2 for reference, and although the edges look cut off on the cross hatch, it's actually perfectly aligned in-game. Not sure how this will affect other boards though.

I cranked both colour and brightness to max in service mode, and in normal picture mode adjusted contrast to 60 and brilliance down to 18 to get pure blacks. Not as supremely vibrant as I'd like, but light years away from when I first hauled it in.

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by fagin »

Geometry looks fine but it's hard to tell from that size of image.

Don't forget the geometry will go to cock once you alter the input resolution (different resolution PCB and/or console etc). This is the reason why on consumer stuff, it's best to tune for a happy medium.
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Skykid »

fagin wrote:Geometry looks fine but it's hard to tell from that size of image.

Don't forget the geometry will go to cock once you alter the input resolution (different resolution PCB and/or console etc). This is the reason why on consumer stuff, it's best to tune for a happy medium.
I see, I didn't think about that. I think Strider 2 might even be a different rez to the regular pcb's. I put on hacha mecha after and it was tiny! Leo was about right though.

I'll tune the geometry to be a bit flatter as you recommended and put up a larger image ;)
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by fagin »

If you look at my YT video channel, one of the videos will state how to access the deinterlace function.
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

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fagin wrote:If you look at my YT video channel, one of the videos will state how to access the deinterlace function.
Timestamp or it didn't happen! One of your vids is an hour long, and you spent half of it drinking and then dropped your TV! ;)

Only joking, super helpful stuff, I wouldn't have been able to fit such a lovely service mode button without it. ...But I'm serious about the timestamp thing. Hook me up!
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by blizzz »

Skykid wrote:One of your vids is an hour long, and you spent half of it drinking and then dropped your TV! ;)
LOL! I'm a huge fan of fagin's videos. I even dropped my own TV because I thought it was a how-to video.
Here's matt's video for the deinterlacing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pws_g1ZF2ic#t=70

Not sure if that helps, but these are my settings for the MX4000. I messed it up once and lost the original numbers, so I had to readjust it with a 480i picture. This is as good as I can get it. When I try to optimize one setting it looks worse in a different part.

Hfq 45 - Horizontal frequency, not sure what this does exactly
Hph 56 - Horizontal phase, for horizontal centering
Ham 33 - Horizontal amplitude, width
Vam 24 - Vertical amplitude, height
Vsc 27 - Vertical s-correction, expands center and compresses top and bottom
Vsh 06 - Vertical shift, should center the picture, does strange stuff
Vli 16 - Vertical linearity, compresses top, expands bottom
EWc 21 - East/West corner, shifts the top and bottom horizontally to expand corners
EWp 26 - East/West parabola, maximize for maximum fun
EWt 45 - East/West tilt, trapezoid correction
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by fagin »

blizzz wrote:
Skykid wrote:One of your vids is an hour long, and you spent half of it drinking and then dropped your TV! ;)
LOL! I'm a huge fan of fagin's videos. I even dropped my own TV because I thought it was a how-to video.
ROFLMAO
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Skykid »

blizzz wrote:
Skykid wrote:One of your vids is an hour long, and you spent half of it drinking and then dropped your TV! ;)
LOL! I'm a huge fan of fagin's videos. I even dropped my own TV because I thought it was a how-to video.
Ha ha! :lol:
Not sure if that helps, but these are my settings for the MX4000. I messed it up once and lost the original numbers, so I had to readjust it with a 480i picture. This is as good as I can get it. When I try to optimize one setting it looks worse in a different part.
Thanks so much for sharing those, great stuff. I'll check them against my own to see how close they are. I'm sure everyone's TV is different, but a happy medium should have at least vaguely similar numbers. I hear you about the tweaking, you end up getting one side how you want it, and realise the other's gone wonky (and then spend twenty minutes trying to tease it all back.)

Regarding that vid, I've seen it - but he's using the remote right? My MX4000 has the earlier firmware where I need to access service mode by shorting the jumpers on the chassis, I don't know if I can still de-interlace using his method... which for a 'how to' video is pretty unclear!

What do I program exactly? I have to hold the remote away from the TV in what menu, picture or service? It does say it works with 1000 remotes too, which is the one I have (without the display) but there are slight differences with the buttons.

Anyone with an MX4000 with 1.0/1.1 firmware and a Beo 1000 remote want to chime in with a clear written guide, feel free. ;)

On other things, R-Type Leo looks absolutely beautiful on the set now, and the audio is a treat. Was a good way to spend £35!
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Drachenherz »

Ah, so the tv REALLY is a pain in the ass to set up and it wasn't just me being stupid. :)

Thanks for your inputs, really helpful!

Btw, I *hate* the dullness of the image that the smokescreen gives. Is it difficult to remove, and does the image/vibrancy really gets better by taking it off?
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by blizzz »

Drachenherz wrote:Btw, I *hate* the dullness of the image that the smokescreen gives. Is it difficult to remove, and does the image/vibrancy really gets better by taking it off?
Use a big flathead screwdriver as a crowbar. Should come off within seconds. You have to target the gap on one of the sides between the glossy and normal plastic. Once you remove one of the sides you can just slide the glass out. Putting it back together is also very easy, just slide the glass back in and the plastic piece should snap back into place.

The image gets much more vibrant when you remove the screen. But the tube is a kind of light grey, so you lose a bit of contrast and black won't be as dark.

Here's a photo of the 240p Genesis testsuite running on Retroarch in 240p on a Wii via RGB Scart. The upper right corner is a bit more to the left than the other corners, but I can't fix it. Maybe it's because I dropped it :lol: Had to replace the whole front (glass, plastic and speakers) but the tube still looked fine.
There's also a bit of compression on the right side.

Image
(click for a bigger version)
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by fagin »

Skykid,
What did your last slave die of you lazy arsed biatch!!!!!! :mrgreen:

"SHIFT" & "7" ;)
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Skykid »

fagin wrote:Skykid,
What did your last slave die of you lazy arsed biatch!!!!!! :mrgreen:

"SHIFT" & "7" ;)
Ha ha, I'm sure I tried that and it didn't work! I'll go and mess with it now.
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by Drachenherz »

fagin wrote:
Skykid wrote:
SuperPang wrote:I never used the service menu on my MX4000. Here's the service manual. Page 38 onwards should help..
http://beophile.com/wp-content/plugins/ ... php?id=222

For gawds sake don't try and fine tune a picture using an RF source. Use RGB. You need a cross hatch to adjust geometry. I'd put everything back the way it was until your supergun is working and just sort out the contrast and screen position for now.

Also, you won't be able to adjust convergence from a service menu AFAIK.
Right, but I have the crosshatch already set up, but every time I switch from TV to RGB (or Tape 1/2) I lose the service menu option! So how the flying hell am I supposed to tune RGB?

Anyone?!

(As a side note: you never used the service menu Pang? The TV presets are so dark and dull, and for some bloody weird reason brightness and colour are confined to those jumpers behind the shell. I'd definitely suggest getting to it.)
Blindly..... I'm serious! :roll:

This is a major flaw on these sets.
Yes, this is such a huge flaw, it almost made me get rid of my mx4000...

But I just couldnt let go of this set, I just love the design of it.
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Re: This is now about the B&O MX4/6/7000 CRT TV

Post by fagin »

I think the inability to view the screen whilst altering geometry is being over egged. It took me no more than 20mins to tweak the geometry and wasn't a hardship to do so. This is a consumer TV afterall.
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