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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:43 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 358
FBX wrote:
Well I can only give you anecdotal evidence in the example of early model 1 Sega Genesis consoles. Jail bars were hitting the blue trace from the subcarrier trace right next to it. Lifting pin 6 on the CXA was reportedly giving less than optimal clearance of the noise, while severing the trace on the VDP side completely eliminated the noise. I don't know if it's for a fact or not because I always cut the trace on the VDP side myself. It's just something I heard anyway about the CXA side..


The stories of people getting better results by lifting the subcarrier trace at the VDP rather than the CXA of a Genesis are intriguing. That there is a difference really doesn't make much sense to me. I've been learning a lot about inductance recently, and it really seems like no current flow = no magnetic field = no effect on nearby circuits.

For the record, I had bad jailbars coming from my X'EYE, cut pin 6 of the CXA right at the chip, and solved the problem completely.

Quote:
If your theory is correct, then lifting pin 3 won't help, but as you can see from my before and after pics, it made a world of difference, as pointed out by Voultar.


To be clear, I am saying that lifting pin 3 and removing R59 should have an equal effect, because both solutions stop current from flowing and prevent a typical AC coupling scenario from happening. In other words, I don't think that cutting pin 3 after having removed R59 will lead to any further reduction in the noise that I am seeing. I guess I could try it, though.

Quote:
When I get some free time, I'll take a look at the stripe issue on my APU, although I did replace the regulator on it with a 78S05, so I may not have any stripe to show.


I also replaced my APU's regulator and have mostly eliminated the big vertical stripe. What I haven't eliminated is a minor amount of diagonal noise. Again, I'd suggest looking at the FF6 title screen instead of LttP, because with all of my modifications so far, I get a perfect LttP title screen yet a slightly fuzzy FF6 title screen. I also still get weird artifacts near the top of the screen when the main FF6 logo appears.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:18 am 


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Joined: 25 May 2014
Posts: 480
SamIAm wrote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like AC coupling shouldn't be possible if the line is cut regardless of where it's cut.

My understanding is that it's current flowing through a wire which causes a magnetic field to build up around it. The size of that field is dependent on the amount of current flowing, and if the amount of current fluctuates with rises and falls in voltage (as in a signal), the magnetic field will build and collapse accordingly. It's the collapsing of that field into a neighboring wire that gives the neighbor a momentarily boosted voltage, and that is AC coupling. Without current flowing, fluctuating, and causing magnetic field collapse, the effect doesn't happen. Voltage potential on a wire alone shouldn't mean much to any neighbors if it doesn't have anywhere to go.

Or should it?

AC signals don't just couple to other signals by induction, they can also couple by the mutual capacitance of the traces that are carrying them.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:23 am 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 272
SamIAm wrote:
I also replaced my APU's regulator and have mostly eliminated the big vertical stripe. What I haven't eliminated is a minor amount of diagonal noise. Again, I'd suggest looking at the FF6 title screen instead of LttP, because with all of my modifications so far, I get a perfect LttP title screen yet a slightly fuzzy FF6 title screen. I also still get weird artifacts near the top of the screen when the main FF6 logo appears.


I think the artifacts you are getting is CPU activity noise. Its more easily seen with the OSSC 256x240 optimized mode. I have captured a video with reverse LPF set to max so the noise can be clearly seen: https://youtu.be/syOW-w1q5UA

If you take a look at this video where they visualize the CPU instructions timing you can see the noise looks exactly like that. https://youtu.be/Q8ph2OVqZeM?t=8m18s

There is no noise at the DRAM refresh in the middle where the CPU is halted. Also what they call spinning where the CPU is waiting for something looks the same too with the diagonal lines. Once the game is waiting for controller input at the save file selection the diagonal bars go across the whole screen.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:13 pm 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 358
Unseen wrote:
AC signals don't just couple to other signals by induction, they can also couple by the mutual capacitance of the traces that are carrying them.


I didn't know about this. Thank you! I have another interesting thing to read up on. :)

paulb_nl wrote:
SamIAm wrote:
I also replaced my APU's regulator and have mostly eliminated the big vertical stripe. What I haven't eliminated is a minor amount of diagonal noise. Again, I'd suggest looking at the FF6 title screen instead of LttP, because with all of my modifications so far, I get a perfect LttP title screen yet a slightly fuzzy FF6 title screen. I also still get weird artifacts near the top of the screen when the main FF6 logo appears.


I think the artifacts you are getting is CPU activity noise. Its more easily seen with the OSSC 256x240 optimized mode. I have captured a video with reverse LPF set to max so the noise can be clearly seen: https://youtu.be/syOW-w1q5UA

If you take a look at this video where they visualize the CPU instructions timing you can see the noise looks exactly like that. https://youtu.be/Q8ph2OVqZeM?t=8m18s

There is no noise at the DRAM refresh in the middle where the CPU is halted. Also what they call spinning where the CPU is waiting for something looks the same too with the diagonal lines. Once the game is waiting for controller input at the save file selection the diagonal bars go across the whole screen.


This is absolutely it. Just like you, I get no noise exactly in the middle during that DRAM refresh. The spinning pattern matches the general interference I see during the FF6 title screen as well.

I just now compared my two APU-01 systems. One has R59 and the RF unit removed, a new 7805, and a bunch of extra decoupling capacitors on the power rail, while the other is completely unmodified. Without a doubt, the unmodified system shows significantly more noise than the modified system. The modified system has virtually no vertical stripe, while the unmodified system has a plainly visible stripe as well as noise occurring at a different frequency together with the basic noise I see on the modified system. I suspect that removing R59 and smoothing the power rail each accomplished something, but the noise I'm seeing on the modified system is probably this CPU activity and not anything from PPU2.

It would be nice to figure out how to get APU boards to the same video quality level as the earlier boards. Anybody and his grandma could see that an unmodified APU looks awful during certain screens. Exactly what can be done, however, will probably need to be investigated by someone with more tools and knowledge than I have.

Thanks for the links and info! :)


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:00 am 


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Joined: 28 Apr 2018
Posts: 1
Location: Russia
Hi
Do you still adding serial numbers to the database?
I've bought a console with UN308481716 that have 1CHIP-01
Maybe this information is important to you. Sorry if not...

I also found these numbers that have 1CHIP-01:
UN273573225
UN300058558
UN303522957
UN306838406
UN307539579
UN602634504


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:54 pm 


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Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Posts: 1150
Location: Germany
Big thanks to Voultar and especially FBX for bringing it up in this thread. I lifted pin 3 on the PPU2 of my APU-01 Super Famicom and it fixed the diagonal stripes issue. It was quite an easy mod, even for a soldering noob like me.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:00 am 


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Joined: 23 Mar 2018
Posts: 73
Super Famicom: S18668559 SNS-CPU-GPM-01

@FBX
I am interested in seeing the timeline between SHVC-CPU-01, SNS-CPU-GPM-01, and GPM-02, but no one seems to have interest in them, nor submitted serial numbers.

The CPU-01 have quite a big failure rate and random CPU/PPU1/PPU2 revisions, GPM-01 always has 2/1/3 but still has CPU that is prone to dying but less frequently then of the CPU-01 model.
GPM-02 has new revision CPU and PPU2 which is also in the RGB-01/02 and APU-01.
In my opinion the GPM-01/2 are the best 3chip console to get since they are reliable and have no issues with video output (RGB and APU have checkerboard and jailbars)..

People please submit your "undesirable" super famicom GPM serial numbers too, the database seriously lacks these numbers for reference.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:49 am 


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Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 4588
Does Super Ghouls n Ghosts glitch out on all 1 chips?

I never knew this was an issue till I popped it in just now. It's the Japanese version btw.
_________________
Quote:
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:11 am 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1295
A few people on here have claimed that SuperFX games run slower on an SNES Jr. without providing any substantiating evidence. As a result, that misconception has been spreading like gospel slowly across various internet forums for a while. Much like the parroted yet disproven claim that the AGS-101 GBA SP ran at 50Hz, which it doesn't.

https://youtu.be/-YJLGwwITv8

Greenalink, a speedrunner who does thorough comparisons and reviews, posted this video which shows that a 1CHIP and 2CHIP run StarFox (and presumably other SuperFX games as well) at the exact same speed.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:47 pm 


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Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 25
FBX wrote:
APU is THE WORST version of the SNES console to have because of the diagonal subcarrier noise interference. Voultar found the fix by lifting pin #3 on the PPU2 chip, and I did this myself to test on my own APU (I kept it even though I have two different 1CHIP consoles). [...] Be warned you of course lose color on composite video output, but that's a small price to pay for cleaner RGB.


I just did it, and it worked great on my APU-CPU-01. Thanks Voultar & FBX !


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:59 am 



Joined: 11 Dec 2014
Posts: 335
GeneraLight wrote:
A few people on here have claimed that SuperFX games run slower on an SNES Jr. without providing any substantiating evidence. As a result, that misconception has been spreading like gospel slowly across various internet forums for a while. Much like the parroted yet disproven claim that the AGS-101 GBA SP ran at 50Hz, which it doesn't.

https://youtu.be/-YJLGwwITv8

Greenalink, a speedrunner who does thorough comparisons and reviews, posted this video which shows that a 1CHIP and 2CHIP run StarFox (and presumably other SuperFX games as well) at the exact same speed.

Doesn't make sense. How could they run slower when the processing is happening on the cartridge right?

The AGS-101 simply has slower pixel response times, but you see this often with Gameboy people. Claiming the refresh rate is lower, not the refresh rate is not lower. The response times of the displays are just shit. (Though many Gameboy games run at 30FPS which would cause blurring/double images on even a CRT. Ex: Pokemon, the two Gradius GB games.)


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:33 am 


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Joined: 06 Dec 2018
Posts: 3
Location: Finland
Hello. I just registered to the forums and wanted to let you know that I browsed some eBay auctions and examined all auctions for 1CHIP models. I wrote the serial numbers down and I'm going to add them to the googledoc
document we have here. I don't have a 1CHIP model myself yet but I just purchased one (PAL model) which I believe is going to be one.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:28 pm 


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Joined: 06 Dec 2018
Posts: 3
Location: Finland
I bought a Super Famicom with serial starting with S47 but it turned out to be an APU-CPU machine. Full serial is S24722876. So if you want to be sure to get a 1CHIP machine, you should check the serial at least starts with S475 as the serial number paragraph states. The image quality still is better than in my SHVC-CPU-01 SFC. It appears to be more noise free. I took some comparison pictures so you can see. I used OSSC with scanlines in 2x mode.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lybmhfhxoirx1 ... s.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/itoafa6wstwp6 ... 2.png?dl=0


Last edited by Hypetreme on Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:50 pm 


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Joined: 09 Aug 2017
Posts: 1199
Location: Australia
I always ask the seller to take a photo of the EXT port and look for the 3 dots. Cant go wrong that way.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:55 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 358
Is this the most recent version of the board-revisions document?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... utput=html

I seem to remember this being longer before. Did someone remove a bunch of entries? Who is maintaining it now, anyway?


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:48 am 


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Joined: 23 Mar 2018
Posts: 73
This is the latest from FirebrandX:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 44/pubhtml

I don't why he removed it from his signature, if I didn't have the link I would not be able to find it.
It's not linked on his website either.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:43 am 



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 358
I PMed these to FBX a while ago. They're confirmed serial numbers from 1chip auctions I was browsing on Yahoo.jp.

1CHIP-01
S24618767
S24781610
S24921826
S24962907
S24994446
S24999639

1CHIP-02
S25057788
S25078357
S25099039
S25165254
S25167317
S25175272
S25218728

1CHIP-03
S25204376
S25223396
S25236645


Also, this one that I bought turned out to be an APU-01:
SM11917733

James-F wrote:


If this is the latest version, then the numbers I posted above are interesting in the following ways:
S24618767 is the lowest 1chip
SM11917733 is the highest non-1chip in the SM series.
S25218728 is the highest 1chip-02

I think it would be nice for these to be part of the data. Whoever is maintaining the document, by all means, please add them.


Today, for 300 yen, I picked up a Super Famicom starting with S242. My money is on it being an APU or RGB model, but who knows? Maybe we'll get an interesting outlier. :)


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:10 am 


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Joined: 06 Dec 2018
Posts: 3
Location: Finland
Nice. I also added bunch of SFC serials on the document while ago which I found from yahoo auctions.

EDIT: Btw, I can add the serials you posted on the document later since I have the permission to edit it.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 4:34 pm 



Joined: 17 Jan 2017
Posts: 73
I need some help. Yesterday I did a complete cap replacement aswell as did an upgrade to a 4.1b RGB bypass board from Videogameperfection on my NTSC US SNES Jr. Picture quality is really great but I have loud buzzing where there should be audio. I have no idea what so ever what’s causing this. I did add the 1000uf 25v cap on C58. Could that be causing it?


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:14 am 



Joined: 02 Jul 2019
Posts: 1
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have question regarding shipping companies, which company is best one, as i know 2,3 like myus, global shopaholics, shipito etc. Can you please share your experience with any one. As am using https://globalshopaholics.com 1-2 times. Your sharing will be highly appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:30 am 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 168
paulb_nl wrote:
SamIAm wrote:
I also replaced my APU's regulator and have mostly eliminated the big vertical stripe. What I haven't eliminated is a minor amount of diagonal noise. Again, I'd suggest looking at the FF6 title screen instead of LttP, because with all of my modifications so far, I get a perfect LttP title screen yet a slightly fuzzy FF6 title screen. I also still get weird artifacts near the top of the screen when the main FF6 logo appears.


I think the artifacts you are getting is CPU activity noise. Its more easily seen with the OSSC 256x240 optimized mode. I have captured a video with reverse LPF set to max so the noise can be clearly seen: https://youtu.be/syOW-w1q5UA

If you take a look at this video where they visualize the CPU instructions timing you can see the noise looks exactly like that. https://youtu.be/Q8ph2OVqZeM?t=8m18s

There is no noise at the DRAM refresh in the middle where the CPU is halted. Also what they call spinning where the CPU is waiting for something looks the same too with the diagonal lines. Once the game is waiting for controller input at the save file selection the diagonal bars go across the whole screen.


I just got done modding the heck out of my 1CHIP-02. The picture quality is 95% great, but I am occasionally seeing faint diagonal noise, especially on light blue backgrounds. Checking various threads, these mentions caught my eye.

I know you're discussing an APU revision system, but has anyone seen similar diagonal noise on a 1CHIP? If I'm indeed seeing CPU noise, is there any known way to eliminate or reduce it?

Everything I've already done to my 1CHIP-02:


Here's a pic of my mod work. Is it possible any of my wires could be picking up noise?

Spoiler: show
Image


Would appreciate any suggestions. It's frustrating because I've spent so much time and gotten it so close to perfection, only to have this last little issue.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:42 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 844
H6rdc0re wrote:
I need some help. Yesterday I did a complete cap replacement aswell as did an upgrade to a 4.1b RGB bypass board from Videogameperfection on my NTSC US SNES Jr. Picture quality is really great but I have loud buzzing where there should be audio. I have no idea what so ever what’s causing this. I did add the 1000uf 25v cap on C58. Could that be causing it?

The cap is unlikely to cause audio (or any other) issues.
Did the console always do this? Have you tried a different cable?

@copy:
It might be your power supply. Try using a different one, preferably a modern supply with 8.5V to 10V output and 1A or more.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:37 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 272
copy wrote:
I just got done modding the heck out of my 1CHIP-02. The picture quality is 95% great, but I am occasionally seeing faint diagonal noise, especially on light blue backgrounds. Checking various threads, these mentions caught my eye.

I know you're discussing an APU revision system, but has anyone seen similar diagonal noise on a 1CHIP? If I'm indeed seeing CPU noise, is there any known way to eliminate or reduce it?


Can you show a video of the noise you are seeing? So far I have only seen the CPU noise on an APU revision.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:14 am 



Joined: 29 Apr 2016
Posts: 168
paulb_nl wrote:
copy wrote:
I just got done modding the heck out of my 1CHIP-02. The picture quality is 95% great, but I am occasionally seeing faint diagonal noise, especially on light blue backgrounds. Checking various threads, these mentions caught my eye.

I know you're discussing an APU revision system, but has anyone seen similar diagonal noise on a 1CHIP? If I'm indeed seeing CPU noise, is there any known way to eliminate or reduce it?


Can you show a video of the noise you are seeing? So far I have only seen the CPU noise on an APU revision.

Unfortunately I don't have a decent way to capture video, and I found it pretty much impossible to reproduce on my cell phone's camera.

However, I did discover that the exact same noise is present on another one of my systems, an SNES Mini with Voultar's RGB bypass installed by the man himself. This system doesn't have any of the other changes I did to the 1CHIP-02 (dejitter, vertical line fix, etc.), so I'm reassured that this isn't something I caused. Perhaps this is just normal for 1CHIPs/Minis.

I'm really curious if anyone else can see the noise too. The best example where I can see it is the title screen of The Magical Quest Starring Mickey Mouse. The light blue background here shows it well. Also, looking at it much closer tonight, I can see that the noise is entirely located on the right half of the screen. Interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:34 pm 



Joined: 20 Feb 2016
Posts: 272
copy wrote:

I'm really curious if anyone else can see the noise too. The best example where I can see it is the title screen of The Magical Quest Starring Mickey Mouse. The light blue background here shows it well. Also, looking at it much closer tonight, I can see that the noise is entirely located on the right half of the screen. Interesting.


I have tested The Magical Quest on a few consoles:
US 1-CHIP-01, Mods: C11 330nF, No noise
US Jr, Mods: S-RGB, C11 470nF, No noise
SFC 1-CHIP-01, Mods:none, Wavy noise.

The Super Famicom does not have C11 replaced but it also uses a different power supply. (Official Japanese)


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 Post subject: Re: SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:31 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 844
Again, this is probably a power supply issue.
This kind of noise is not normal for any revision of SNES, modded or not.

Edit:
Oh, just in case: The cable surely doesn't use CVBS for Sync, right?


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